Episode 12

Published on:

12th Oct 2022


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greetings realers my name is Philip and together with my wife Sherry and two of our friends Chris and James we're


Fellowship of the real four people who love talking about movies almost as much as we do watching


them we hope you will join us as we dig deep into cinematic masterpieces and some that are well maybe not


you have an opportunity to be the fifth host of our little show click the link in the show notes and leave us a voice


message telling us what movie you would like us to review you can also reach out on our Facebook


page Fellowship of the real from all of us at Fellowship of the real thanks for listening okay on with the


show are you recording this


studying a movie in the mechanical level I really bring some revelation [Music]


I believe that no one sets up to make a bad movie with the exception of


on paper this should work I just don't like it that's your own fault if you haven't


seen it way over budget they start cutting scenes


even the actors don't know what that movie is about should I I wish I wrote that


which I wrote the title with that movie's trash [Music] well tell me a man it's good for you all


right now let's trip with the reel four of us sitting around talking about movies this is The Shining not Stephen


King's shining Stanley kubricks The Shining completely different completely


different uh who picked this one who's picked was this I picked that was Sherry's pick all right and you sure you prefer this one


over I guess uh Stephen King's shining no no why'd you pick this one then because I wanted to talk about it all


right this was a theatrical release I don't think that one was not a theatrical release was it no do we do we


have that rules of stipulation or I didn't think about you you said it just now well the thing is with and I brought I


brought the movie cases out so I could yeah yeah no okay I'm talking about Stephen King's The Shining is basically


three movies put together it's a mini series for TV yeah it was a made for TV but it's more faithful to his book as


well correct from what I understand I didn't read the book I guess y'all haven't seen that yeah


it's funny I've read the book but we haven't seen that have you done both Phil no I think we can talk about it because I've watched this several times


nice and we can talk about well the fact is that it's got his name on it Stephen


King's The Shining he wanted to differentiate differentiated he wrote the screenplay yeah so that he's saying


this is not Kubrick or whatever yeah got to be Facebook right he did both yeah it's got to be faithful I would think


yeah we can talk about it I'm sure there's some differences but well I I wanted to watch Stephen King's


The Shining because I knew y'all had read the book or you were listening to it and and of course you can see my fingers on


um Chris and James have read or listened to did you read it or listen to this


time I listened to it but I've you've read it okay this would have probably been my fourth or fifth time reading it


slash listening to it it's not I've only read it once okay um I've never read it it's a great it's a fantastic book yeah


it's good it's not my favorite actually Stacy uh had me look this up the other day because she asked me hey what's


ismos uh you know best-selling book ever I have no idea like and I was thinking like guessing like maybe it maybe stay


in right it's this it's The Shining that's his number one seller and apparently he was really young when he


wrote it because he came out like 74 I think so yeah he was early in his career but and he too had a small child at the


time he wrote it so yeah I think it to me like I'm a huge


im until way later until like:


think like I think I said this before maybe like serving the dark Towers first and then went back and started devouring all of his horror stuff like I know who


he was but he was the the horror guy like I didn't give him much thought but I do think it's interesting like his


first like Cujo uh other than the stand like his first couple of books Cujo Carrie The Shining like they're all okay


to me like they're way on the list as far way down on the list as far as favorites to me so I wonder if like had


I been you know older and like picked them up when they came out like would I have like dropped Stephen King because


you're not like you you read a new author if their first book doesn't blow you away chances of you picking up the next one are kind of slim so it's very


interesting to me that you know well I think he's gotten more sophisticated like you know he's really bigger hopefully mean dog mean car yeah you


know okay right right well the one I refused but he's got more sophisticated obviously uh well I like


the mean car one I like Christine yeah I like Christine the one uh the movie I tried watching Carrie I couldn't get


past the few first few minutes so I know I would never read any of that but not


that I didn't like them they were they were good books but like he's got others that like are great yeah and then these weren't great to me yeah that's just


interesting but like doctor sleep for example oh like that way better than than the Than The Shining than the first


one but you couldn't have that without the first one right right have you seen Dr sleep I'm not it's an excellent


sequel to The this movie yeah it's Danny right he looks both I feel it's really good like both I feel like it's a good sequel like a good adaptation of the


book yes but it's faced obviously it's a movie so it has to be faithful to the to the movie well


um it walks the line in both worlds really well okay I tried to send y'all


an article I found about doctor sleep Stephen King did approve of that script


he said that it kind of made up for I guess the shortcomings of yeah of the


Stanley Kubrick's movie script or whatever so he was okay with it


but I haven't seen it so I don't know the it's cool from what I understand the the the rift started between Stephen


King and Stanley Kubrick almost immediately yeah Kubrick picked up The Shining out of a you know a pile of


books to do a horror movie Kubrick just wanted to do a horror movie yeah pick The Shining and Stephen King and him


started talking and immediately recognized our two visions are completely Worlds Apart so Kubrick


basically made an art piece yeah because King had to sign off right like he so he


just said I bought the rights yeah that's what I'm saying that's what's good at so King was like all right we're on different pages I don't like it but


I'm gonna take this check yeah right yeah especially because it was what 70 80. yeah


he had not gone to the stratosphere yet right yeah I don't know this might have been his first like movie adaptation of


one of his books maybe I mean I mean not I don't know you have that same


experience you wrote something yeah and then the movie came out a little bit different oh sure yeah sure


sure so it's basically uh Kubrick in the film company bought the rights from


Stephen King essentially so it was yeah here's your check take the money yeah no it's a little bit different because I


guess you know I wrote the script for them based off their ideas opposed to it being we're a king it's solely His came


from his you know his soul when he wrote the book first not that all writing them from your soul but I mean like it was


all his like he owned it right he came with everything and then I don't know it was interesting like if you didn't click right away he could have walked away but


instead he was like I'll take this check whatever it was not I had the power it might have just been yeah hey we're making this so might as well take the


damn check yeah that's the check or don't we don't care I don't know if this is true I found this on the internet uh


Carey was the first movie that came out okay before okay and then Salem's Lot oh


which I watched that that was interesting and then The Shining and then Creep Show that's another one like


Stacy wrote it uh last year and really really liked it and when I read it I was like like Sam's a lot but I think to me


because I came on to him so late that like I knew what it was like I knew like


he hide to me he hides the fact that it's a vampire in the book and I knew that going into it so that ruined it for me and that's just because it's you know


I read it you know 30 years after it came out or whatever I think the first book I read of his was Cujo and I read


it because someone said there's a lot more to it than them in the movie and there is there's some strange stuff I


can't remember the first Stephen King book I read I just I've always been kind of around it and absorbed by my mom read


it about an uncle that owned them all and like but I never talked to him about it until like not never but like growing up


like when I was a kid and I remember seeing that like I talked to him years later like after I started reading them but yeah so the Stanley Kubrick version


yep sorry we got off test everyone yeah oh yeah we did I well


I don't want to it'll become clear how I feel about this movie but I discovered I always thought I liked this movie


but you do not and what I like are about four scenes of Jack Nicholson


yeah no I wanna and we'll get into this but what I discovered was I don't I


thought I liked this movie and what I discovered is I like about four scenes of Jack Nicholson in this movie uh and


not even every scene of Jack Nixon just some so uh we'll get into why I think


this movie doesn't whatever and so it doesn't hit your mark doesn't hit my mark the way I thought it did well what


about uh the critics movies fans yeah no yeah we need to get into the money money critics fans uh I have the money and


Craig's I forgot to do the blurb does someone have the blurb or whatever the it's The Shining everybody knows oh I


can read I want to read go ahead and read it got it okay wonderful Jack Torrance Jack Nicholson becomes


winter caretaker at the isolated Overlook Hotel in Colorado hoping to


cure his writer's block he settles in a long he settles in along with his wife Wendy


who's played by Shelley Duvall and his son Danny played by Danny Lloyd who is


plagued by psychic premonitions as Jack's writing goes nowhere and Danny's


Visions become more disturbing Jack discovers the hotel's dark secrets and begins to unravel in a homicidal maniac


hell-bent on terrorizing his family sounds about right yeah so something I


thought about and just I guess at one point I was going to talk about it and I don't know when but like I guess I want


to do it now because uh the way the the wording and that premise Jack's writing goes nowhere right yeah the reason this


guy's writing goes nowhere to me because he's not a [ __ ] writer like he blames everybody else on all of his stuff and


his problems particularly his wife yeah well like what did he write he didn't write a damn thing in this movie no like


he's as a writer like and I get it like if we see him sitting there typing away that's a boring ass movie right so other


stuff very cool other exciting things have got to happen but like I've seen other movies about writers


his writing becomes a big reveal it did but I guess I see what you're saying he


didn't even have any like pages that were like of actual normal stuff right question like yeah what was he writing


again in this one because like I said I watched Stephen King's The Shining uh last and I know he was writing


um a play and that what was he writing in was he writing a movie he said it was a


book A book I thought it was just a novel because he's like I'm outlining a novels what he said at the beginning during the interview in in the novel The


Shining I think he's writing a book as well but he in the book is like he's a


professor of literature English or whatever he is a writer but maybe in the movie it was a he was a teacher yeah in


the movie it's never he just seems kind of like a Down and Out loser a little bit Yeah so he's just teach her in the interview yeah in the movie I thought


yeah yeah uh but he had become he's five months sober I guess that's


the same in both anyway sure he makes up we're not going to get into this but every time I hear it I shake my head if


you're a writer and you think there's such a thing as writer's block then you're full of [ __ ] okay uh because in


the movie he's like nothing's coming to me yet okay right right okay so while he's sleeping half the day well and


[ __ ] you know getting up and his wife's making him breath like he was pissing me off man as a but you're right


if you've got five months no you don't do [ __ ] and and you can't write anything you're not a writer yeah I think you


said it best once and all right I'm an astronaut then if you're a writer so I've never been in the moon I don't go to [ __ ] you know NASA and training


and all that but I'm an astronaut if you can't think of an idea take an archetypal character at a standard plot


uh and and and just run them through the the steps and it'll be a paid by number


story but at least you'll have something that maybe we'll sure there's no such there is no such thing as writers absolutely ideas are coming to you all


the time now you know maybe not all these are brilliant ideas but you're always getting ideas for stuff right


always getting ideas for a character or a story yeah and then yeah maybe it fades in a couple days because it was


[ __ ] or maybe it's not ready yet you know and part of that comes back to you later when you're able to put that


character and then the scenario come up with yeah it was really annoying to me that he was right and again that's I guess not the point of the movie


potentially though on that deal uh with to me like uh Stephen King puts a lot of I think a lot of writers but he puts a


lot of himself in his stories and yet he was a professor and he was a writer or a teacher yeah Professor but he was a


teacher and then you know became a writer so I feel like that's probably why that guy had that background yeah Stephen King


Stephen King is the is the real writer by the way he is writer but he's he's not an artsy writer he's a working day writer he's a nine to five writer means


he punches the clock and he gets the words sure now he'll be in a store and he'll he'll see plate glass and he'll


come up with a story for the Miss that's not gonna win the Pulitzer but it scares the [ __ ] out of you but it's a blue


collar grinded out story and Stephen King doesn't f a round right sure right okay his best books are the longest ones


sure sure and where his idea for this came from he actually stayed in uh the


Stanley Hotel in Colorado there is no run with blood Stephen King has never had writer's blocks but Jack Torrance


does sure yeah because he's you know he's got to write the Great American novel and that's anyway well I think uh


I don't wanna yeah just looking at it the character of Jack Torrance was wanted to live the life of Jack Kerouac


and yeah yeah and all that just drink and write the Great American novel yeah well maybe that's his motivation but in


the movie none of that is stated he's just a guy looking for a job when you first see him I know we're jumping ahead


a little bit he just looks like a guy that's smiling and grin and I gotta get a job oh for sure feeding lip service


feeding them what they want to hear so he gets to jump uh there was people killed here sir yep my wife's gonna love it uh you're gonna be up here you know


months and months at a time nope we're gonna it won't happen to me you know it's like okay dude anyway so


yeah I think some of the just the the foreboding right in the I promise you that won't happen to me well you're


watching my you know late looks at me or whatever and goes you know gives you a little side look because he knows all right that's [ __ ] there's there's a


b this was uh released in the:


May 23rd domestic it cleared 45 million uh International I guess it wasn't released


that much what was the budget I'm sorry the budget was uh 19 million 19 and made


45 animated 19 million yeah domestic 45 International 1 million six so I guess


it didn't get a lot of domestic release not like it does now and then worldwide 47 total on 19 million budget Tomato


Meter for critics critics and fans are much kinder to this movie than than I think that deserves Tomato Meter critics


gave it 82 which means you know obviously 82 percent gave it three stars or higher and then 93 fans give this


thing the uh three stars are above and I would have up until the time I started


looking at it closely you know but we'll get into that and I know this


movie is loved and so if you like it great uh I think it's a mess but we'll get


into that all right that was it that's podcast that's a review it's a mess and we're done here where's the closing


music all right uh so this this is obviously okay so Sherry reminded me


we're gonna do four podcasts we're recording these way before the time you know we got we have them in the pipes by


the time this comes out it'll be a month six weeks whatever but we're doing four scary movies for Halloween and we plan


on trying to release those to four weeks in October and so this will be one of


the releases in October in celebration of Halloween and all things scary so this all four of these movies that


we'll release most likely will be the genre of monster in the house I think this is a monster in the house


it I think this one's a house is the monster sure yeah which requires as we


have said before in other podcasts a monster a house and a sin the monster I


think we could call call him jack called Grady calling Lloyd you know the influences the haunted hotel whatever


the house obviously is the Overlook and I was hard-pressed to find the sin of


this movie so I don't being an [ __ ] yeah well well it's alcoholism it's uh


abuse mental physical abuse that that's only verbal abuse yeah yeah I I can buy


off those things those things happened before they ever went to the hotel was the alcohol that late night drink


obviously not in the movie it's not really stated other than him dislocating yeah yeah well he I think that's a good


point I I guess I detached from this movie I didn't see it but I think alcoholism is probably the sin because


there's a scene when he goes in with Lloyd and he goes here's the you know here's the the end of sobriety and all


the damage it has caused me you know in in again I know back and forth to the


book in the book the hotel I think the hotel takes him over as soon as he drinks yeah has a drink yeah he's in the


movie it's very similar I don't know if that's what you're getting at but he's he's very um he's more sympathetic in the book right


holding way more synthetic words like to me we were talking a little bit in the interview in the interview uh scene


he's it's all lip service here's a guy needs a job which okay whatever you need a job you're like he's done on his luck that's fine like that didn't necessarily


rub me the wrong way um and then they cut uh some weird cuts in this movie but they cut to his family introduced them and then they showed


them in the car and like he's like such an [ __ ] and like he's creepy in the [ __ ] car from like moment one well to


me and and his you know you've been coming about there's a couple of scenes with Jack um I guess


I don't know that I like them all but like I watched all of them like couldn't look away because I'm just watching what this guy's gonna do next sorry like like


he's somebody's having fun at least with this damn movie and I think he was but uh uh but yeah but he's not likable like


they had so many moments where they could make him likable and because it looks like this was I don't know if it was an interview or if it's in the back


of the book but I remember Stephen King saying at one point I could make this guy just a straight up regular monster or I could give him more motivation so


he went with the alcohol you know and being an alcoholic kind of thing and making it more human right yeah and


that's something everybody can theoretically relate to right yeah I didn't I told chair I was going to I


didn't look it up I thought I felt like I gave way too much attention to this movie as well so I didn't but I think


like if you were looking at plot structure yes we're looking at the Beats but I think obviously it's going to be a


descent plot it's going to be a descent into madness right so agreed yeah you take a character who's an everyday world


and you you bring him down and that's a descent plot it's by stages you break him down until insanity or whatever it


is at the end state that is far worse than a negative work not a positive yep yeah right uh yeah he does negative


change a little better he doesn't become better he becomes worse right right and so I think that's what it is but I think


I don't I don't think it's uh well he starts out not very likable yeah and that that bothers like I wish


she'd been especially have from ring from having having read the book yeah he


was he was definitely more like a boy yeah in the book I'm sure you had said or some maybe you


mentioned it saying Stephen King I said about Kubrick's movie they took a


crazy guy and made him crazier whereas Stephen King took a normal guy and made him crazy which I think is far more


Superior way to go right I mean if he's already crazy it's not much of a nudge yeah and you're not going to be on most


people aren't going to be on board with this guy like I said he's sitting in the car looking crazy as [ __ ] well well guess what those kids you see that honey


he saw it on TV just like yeah well they talk about the the daughter party the


Wendy yes about the Donner party and he was like no I think it's a little far A little farther west or whatever and and


then Danny asked what the Donner party was and I guess it's explained and and Jack almost Giggles like he's almost a


little too and I wrote it down a little too titillated about this whole candle cannibalism story he's like smiling and


laughing I don't know he had the glare I guess that's set up for what was coming but yeah and Danny was like you mean


they eat eat each other up yeah yeah I mean but think about it just from I don't want to go down this road and


we've been kind of you know guilty this before but just from a writer's standpoint if they had made him Jack's


character more maybe maybe it doesn't it doesn't work with her character like if Wendy had tried to


explain Donner that what the donor party was and then Jack's like no no no we can't do that when he's like neither one


like she just stayed quiet right and Jack answer but like as a dad and this kid's real young you can explain


cannibalism and all that [ __ ] like that just that bothered me yeah and but they had a moment there where they could have


like if he's I don't know don't worry about it look they could have had he could have grown some [ __ ] store you're a writer come up with some


[ __ ] story where it's like a happy story or somehow right spin it for the kid like if you you take that to the


with the guy who's running them down with an ax at the end you know what I mean like instead they went with like you said crazy already office rocker and


then yeah it just gets worse yeah yeah I'm so you're watching this and in my mind I'm thinking in in what world did


these two ever fall in love and and get together and things like that you're right you know you're right


um anyway we're talking about Kubrick and so right off I said go out with me or I'm going to chop you up into little pieces and


she said okay right and I'll never say that again I promise I had


trouble finding solid structure in this movie and I know Kubrick is Kubrick right okay


so all you Cooper kids out wiping my brow yeah I struggled as well and I was like all right we'll break up I am not


as near as enamored by Kubrick as some people are so I have no sympathy for him and I and


I don't mind this anyway so I was looking for an opening image you said something earlier about him


what would you call him sir yes I think he's uh well make a great bumper are you


sure uh opening image I have it's actually a fairly


interesting camera uh shot the the because I couldn't nail down an


opening image for Jack or or something defining for any of them but they're the


camera the movie opens and it's a long shot of a long and Winding Road aerial you know uh isolated and the road is


twisting and it comes down onto the road and you're almost like in the Viewpoint of the car and then the camera takes a


sharp left off the road like it like a car veering off the road uh into a


ravine you know like like a crash the camera tracks and seems to clean and Veer off the road and I thought well


that is telling us that we're in for a a twisty ride that's going to go off the


rails I hope that that's what Kubrick was doing because that would be fairly competent


he probably just runs the camera Yeah well yeah yeah I I feel bad but I missed that I


guess I don't know why I'm trying to record in my head in the winding road in the opening like in the tracking shot I


remember all that yeah but the bearing off there's a hard left and it looks like it looks like uh if you were a POV


in a car going off the road I must have missed it because last night we're talking about the music because


the music starts in immediately right and just this creepy booming music like and that's one thing I liked I was like


all right because you're talking about letting the audience know what kind of rides you're going on like this music kicking in right away is letting you know like you know oh yeah all right


this you know there's gonna be something this this movie is you know is yeah scarier or whatever you know


he uses this device these and it's been done and it's usually done in uh what


I've seen um uh guy Richie movies or or or tongue-in-cheek comedies the use of the


title card to break up sections of the movie and so I I don't remember how many


of them are like 10 or 12 title cards throughout the movie ninth title card so I'm looking at the end of my notes to


see but I thought it was like 10th so I'm looking at like 10 10 title cards throughout this movie where it'll say


yep Fade to Black and it'll say a word and then a scene which I'm fine with usually I like that


some of these seemed arbitrary uh you stole the word right in my mouth and


it's actually what I it was coming I'd made the length because as we're getting into this thing like it was a Tuesday


yeah yeah and then the next one was [ __ ] Saturday wake me up like we hit our four people we have no idea what [ __ ] day it is and what time it is


right so like what does it matter like they annoyed the hell at me because I just didn't understand like like I mean


there's other ways to show Bachelors of time and maybe with it's always snowing and Snow's piling up maybe that's only I come up with was we can't keep showing


snow outside like how do you show passage of time if it always looks the same right but still like it didn't they


were arbitrary it didn't matter like we had no idea you're telling me it's Tuesday that I know it's usually because of a stupid car that went up not that it


matters anyway yeah it doesn't right one it doesn't matter better and then the interview one you know at the beginning like because that was weird because


there's only one that's like that because later on there was was there a killing one was there a nope no none of that and then two seconds into it unless


you're an idiot you can figure out it's an interview so you didn't need that card yeah unless he wanted you to not


know the passages time to symbolize that they're up there having cabin fever and one day bleeds into another or something


I I don't know you want you to know how long that movie was that's what it is yeah you know I didn't pay that any attention until I was watching the


Stephen King version and they actually do the dates but of course they have more time to


explain things and and they show they show it snow and then they show it melt and they're still going into town it's


not like they're isolated until much much later but then they do tell


I don't know what they like we talked about earlier I haven't seen that version and I don't remember the the


dates you know they came throughout his book and I'm sure that the passage of time is much more clear in the book and


maybe even this movie but I just thought about it if you're gonna do those cards throw up the months instead of the day well that's it


whatever it was it was made October or something or maybe I have a reversed yeah but I don't think the progressing


of the month so that we know because let's only end like that has to be the reason they're in there right


this guy goes nuts or whatever yeah the the uh one of the one of the first cards


let's see it's uh the third title card says one month later so they have a good month yeah


days and right right anyway so as far as that goes the opening image


giving us the idea that we're going for a ride and it's going to go off the rails I think was the only thing I could should have been an Off The Rails card


you know anybody else have anything for opening image like a something you could nail


down as a starting place for Jack I don't know so then we get this first title card the


interview and you know Jack is given several things here duties of the caretaker we learned that this is all


set up the snow closes the road and there's tremendous isolation and then we're given this backstory of of Grady


killed his family and it was:


through Tony his little boy that lives in his mouth and Tony doesn't want to go to the Overlook uh Jack is an alcoholic


but it's been sober a whole five months and Wendy after an episode with Danny is


interviewed also I think there's two interviews because the doctor starts questioning her right about


Danny's injury and so she glosses over it by saying well it was


one time and yeah he was drunk and he's sober now and so


there's this setup and of them both being interviewed


yeah because it's highlighting that Danny goes into trance's essentially starts seeing


horrible horrible images yeah yeah but even the way they did it bugged me like


from like the movie like because he jacks this down started the interview a little bit uh you know and I think he


the guy asked him if he wanted coffee and then he tells the secretary and bring some other guy in here right yeah and then if I remember right it fades


out and then brings up and starts introduces to Danny and and Wendy right we have a little bit of them and then we


go back and then the rest of the interview like it's so weird like why not show the whole interview and then show the family like I don't it just


seemed weird to me which this whole movie has some weird weird well I'm sure it's artistic and you just don't get it yeah yeah that's probably it I just


don't understand you just don't understand maybe another cue card would have helped me get it yeah now as far we so that's the setup


the theme stated couldn't nail down a theme I thought there were some interesting lines here about this movie


now the dramatic question could be because the the the manager who's


conducting an interview with Jack says for some isolation can be a bit of a problem and then you know tells the


story and Jack flips it off that's not going to happen to me all right well okay so maybe one


of the dramatic questions of the movie is uh uh you know what are the effects of isolation


is isolation a problem I don't know sure hmm


in the course of talking to Danny when Danny's through Tony saying that


expressing doubts about going to the Overlook and maybe not wanting to go uh


I I thought it was funny Wendy says we're all going to have a real good time and boy are you in for us so what if


what is the theme of maybe it could be what you would put your family through to chase your dreams


yeah I mean I'm gonna murder my family to be a famous author sure uh could be


you're you're stretching out your hand there to Kubrick you're really trying to it's no I mean you're giving I I hear


you I well I mean I feel like that was what James told me was in there for sure like there were so many times when he he


blamed Wendy for his failing sure not even you know his writing career that's never even taken off right to my nose


like this would be his first book he hasn't ever written anything so because he's not a writer but well um you know


like it just it's yeah blaming everybody else but like that was ultimately his his like I got


that that was his dream and even like in sympathize with nothing else no other job is going to


um sustain him long term he wants to be a writer right sure and so I get like taking a job where you got five months


to write and nothing else to do but even then like that's just uh incredible and


selfishness you know what I mean like your family is right in the other room and you're you know yeah well his speech is very


funny and we'll get to it but his speech is very funny to me and I even have part of that hanging up in my writing room just because I think it's oh there's


some very good but I don't mean any of that but you know and it was terrible to her the way he did it but sure and so


the other thing is everybody we always talk about Jack but whose story is this right because


yeah the main guy is the monster or at least part of the monster mechanism and


it's either Danny or Wendy right I would think it would just be the hotel hotel is the main character


that's that's my point from it yeah no that's the main bad guy but the main character yes the main it's the it's a


story of the hotel it's just one of the many tragedies that has happened and this is just one highlighted coming


through it that's just my point of view again from reading the book yeah there's a whole lot of history that's not even


touched in the movie sure no I could I guess I could see that if it was had been done like an anthology where it's a


bunch of short stories all taking place in the hotel um okay but even then you're gonna have I guess I feel like a main character in


each of those stories well I have a question talking about the hotel


you know at the end they showed that I'm just going to talk about the very very end where they show the picture and


there's Jack Nicholson right yeah in time I mean is it is it like he he was


there all along and they just kind of well we can get to it but yeah that's what they highlighted at because uh what


is it Grady he's the butler he's always been well we've always always been a caretaker so I'm trying to and Kubrick


is going to I I don't know I can't speak for him but he I guarantee he is going to resist the three-act


structure he is not going to be inclined he's going to think that's mundane I guarantee he's going to think that's


mundane and well shackles right these artsy guys you know the 3x structures yeah there's too much chakra on me and


my creativity because it's [ __ ] one yeah one way to look at this is if Jack


Torrance has always been there you've always been here you've always been the caretaker it's the story


of whatever Is possessing Jack Torrance or or it's the Journey of whatever Jack


is back to the Overlook right because obviously he was there and then


m losing him sorry okay so in:


he got out left somehow but well the whatever Is possessing Jack or


the character whatever this guy is got separated from the Overlook and that


because he'll say things like uh I feel like I've been here but let's wait till windy yeah I feel like I've been here I


love it here I never want to leave this is the best place I've ever been right he's the only one having a good time I


don't I don't see it that way um I see it as the hotel seducing him slowly and it's like you know I just


feel comfortable here I feel like I've been here before it's the hotel slowly seeping into him so at the end the hotel


absorbs him he's slowly turning him and seducing him because again in the book he starts off


as a decent guy yeah he was an alcoholic and he he hurt his kid yeah but he's he's you know been sober trying to turn


it around and he's probably a [ __ ] got evidence of being an actual writer in the book too but anyhow he um I'll


stop yeah beat that horse eventually but yeah I think the hotel like you said


of the hotel yeah but it was:


so he was there before the Hotel just that's a lie and they just the hotel is now presenting this photo yeah to you


and to go back to a little bit of the weird stuff in Kubrick's version of stuff appearing and disappearing in


scenes that plays into the fact of the hotel is the main character it is changing and warping yeah the the


Viewpoint of the characters and that's where he just loses his mind in his absorption yeah because because Grady


will talk about I and the others don't are losing confidence in you yeah right who is I so I thought it was like are


these demons are these everybody in that damn picture it's the hotel you know yeah or the hotel yeah because uh in the


next book Dr sleep The Shining or the shine or whatever is so powerful that uh


what's what's her name the Hat Grace Rose the Hat they're like energy vampires they go around and if you have


the shine they'll suck the life yeah like genius idea for like bad guys so


the hotel who have the shine and make them evil like it was really cool okay a hotel is kind of a a different breed of


that thing it wants okay shining and when Danny comes along with his super


power shining the hotel really comes to life because Dick even explains it that like


people he's at the hotel has a bit of shine or whatever yeah you can see it's like seeing pictures and all that and now the pictures are are hurting people


well that that that that makes sense because I was trying to figure out the story and and I I began to Dawn me well


this is not Jack's story necessarily it is I guess him being seduced by the hotel but like if you're looking for the


and he changes I guess from crazy crazier but but Wendy I guess and Danny


are the ones that like who's the protagonist right well it can't be Jack unless you're pulling for him and it's a


descent but I think Wendy and Danny are the ones fighting against yeah the antagonist right and so


it it's got to be I mean on one level it's it's a lady getting out of an abusive relationship yeah right I mean


and she eventually fights back to him like I got the Feeling she'd never fought back before no no she's no absolutely so she fights back finally


and gets you know and literally has to run and escape from this from this guy yeah she had a guy who was a you know an


alcoholic and you know an abused the kid once yeah and been five months over and like I don't think you get anything at


five months and I don't mean to knock anyone that's been five months over no obviously it's a long hard journey and you got to start somewhere but I guess I


don't know I just thought that was interesting yeah they couldn't make it like longer and I don't think and I I don't know I can't speak to it but I


don't think even Alcoholics Anonymous may not encourage you to take on a stress level position like that if


you've only been five months that's over sure I would feel like a responsible sponsor would be like you know well you


got to keep part of it my understanding is you got to keep in touch with your sponsors if he isolates himself and


sponsor you know right and and Stephen things are shining there is an effort for him to call meetings and there's


more attention to the real world aspect of what it means yeah in the book as well he does have a guy that actually


his sponsor is the guy that got him that job I forgot that nice


well I was gonna I found something about the the true theme and meaning behind the story from Rooney even Stephen King


Stephen King it said it's a little known fact this is


The Shining is actually uh kind of an autobiography about Stephen King yeah


because he had his own struggles with alcoholism which I didn't know and and then


deteriorated his mental state yeah sure so um the theme of Jack being the


sympathetic character her spouse and spirals into madness from alcohol and the Supernatural is Central to The


Shining the fact that Kubrick largely brushed aside these details greatly changed the true theme and meaning


behind the story right because he wanted to be artsy yeah no and that could be another reason why like maybe King like


took it as a you know almost I don't call it an insult but like why he doesn't yeah you know because like if he


put these real struggles that he had into this character and then this guy this artsy [ __ ] comes along and and


brushes them aside right well then and you just rip the heart out of what I'm trying to write here yeah I mean in a


way you know I think Kubrick wants to be associated with like Bukowski and and


Kerouac like James was saying right because you know I'm always looking for things in scenes right well sure there's


a scene where Wendy is sitting and Danny's eating his cereal and Wendy's reading a book well of course my eyes


Focus right in on what book she was reading plus The Catcher in the Rye yeah she was reading it in the apartment for


the left too yes Catcher in the Rye so Kerouac and I'm like okay well I could have written to Stephen King there buddy


but yeah well it does yeah but can would catch her in the Rye you know I'm obviously very notorious novel uh band


and all you know all this notoriety about it and entailed as a piece of art and this kind of thing I think Kubrick


is like on some level he thinks that he's in that realm you know and so I


looked up catchering right because I never read it uh you know I think I did read it in school I've never signed it


once and I read it and not art you know whatever anybody ever read it uh I think


I read it once I never read it I think I read it we had to read it for school once anyway so I looked it up themes of


angst and alienation and as a critique of superficiality in society the novel


deals with complex issues of Innocence identity belonging loss connection sex and depression which I guess we're all


in this Shining movie but is it you know it's Kubrick is is he just trying to take a shortcut hey my


movie's going to be the same themes as like well I have a reading Catcher in the Rye I guess is my question and I never got an answer on that uh you know


I never caught that that's what she was reading yeah I I saw that and I was like okay well because I I wanted to give him


a chance you know what's going on here yeah I mean if you're gonna have a character read a book it sure means something yeah well like or be even if


it's a like in stranger things there's a lot like almost all the characters I feel like are always reading like the Stephen King book because it's the show


who's very much is an homage to his type of stuff so well like even if it's just something like that like it can't just


be any old book right yeah and we talked about this and you can listen to on the breast Club but but uh


John Hughes did this much more with much greater finesse when he had them tearing


up the book by uh well yeah or whatever yeah you know comedies that point out in


Injustice in society or whatever it brilliantly done uh to the point where


you can look at that and say yes that's what's going on on here yeah that's interesting to me guys I don't think


necessarily that we get any strong signals from her reading Catcher in the Rye and then how it relates to this


movie unlike the script for this movie was by Kubrick and then Diane something I don't remember write it down yeah hang


on I got it much as I'm bragging about writers Diane Johnson thank you good member name anyhow so be willing to


Diane be willing to bet Diane did most of the heavy lifting because Kubrick I don't know he's probably not that much of a writer I may be wrong where like


John Hughes very much writer and director um and it's just I don't know just kind of blows my mind that like no no I'm


thinking about it and I know this early and Stephen King's career but there's only been a couple he's already had some hit books he's had some hit movies made


from these hit books so instead of like taking the blueprint that this writer gave you a successful writer yeah you


change it right and encounters come up with your own themes and your own stuff it's Kubrick man that's just crazy to me


like well oh I Can Do Better what yeah anyhow there's not a Kubrick movie on


this I have a little bit of Hope for Doctor Strangelove okay I I remember


liking that movie never seen it I'll probably go back and watch it and be like oh my God okay Clockwork Orange is


not nothing no I I know what that's about and it's I'm not talking about orange yeah that's what I'm saying


dimensions the first time I saw The Shining or his stainless shouting I checked it out of


the College library where we went where I worked yeah and I was like why do they


have this well they had Clockwork Orange and all that and I'm like okay they're the best people watch these yeah yeah




colors are very Vivid everything is you know use Color Film great I meant it was in colors


he could set up some shot that's oh yeah we learned that in film school I bet yeah possibly but there's a lot of I


don't give them that he lets how much direct you need to give Jack I don't know he lets every single scene that


shot breathe more than normal if more than necessary I would say but yes yeah


that's what I want to breathe well there are some directors to cut that [ __ ] if you take a breath and you go along with


this movie it's still two and a half hours long and there's something no


in general though the way that he shoots they're beautiful movies and damn I don't remember being two and a half oh


yeah it's long it's because you fell asleep in the middle yeah but yeah just talk about the giving the


scenes you know room to breathe like there were just so many like these long awkward pauses like it was so much


something like late notice too he was like what's going on why are they just standing there like I don't know how many times he said that you know why are


they just sitting there but it's it's allowing the music to make you uncomfortable the staring at Jack Nicholson's eyebrows no I hear you I was


never I was never bored in this one I I enjoyed every minute of I didn't fall asleep to getting tired I was never


bored I wouldn't say I was bored no one was even with the longer scenes in the long movie like I was never bored it was just I started off enjoying it I


remember it was all right the first time I saw it and I started enjoying it more this time and then it lost me along the


way like especially in the middle and then it picked back over the end when he's trying to kill him I got to the


point where I was just enjoying Jack knuckle Jack Nicholson's performance in the middle that was like the only


thing I was going to you know yeah anyway moving on would we look into our second title card closing day in


reference to the Donner Party on the way off that we talked about I like I said Jack seems a little too titillated by


this reference more of Danny's gifts a vision of the sisters uh first appearance of the sisters you know uh a


tour of the grounds with reference to All Things the hotel yeah maybe this became a cliche later the hotels on


Indian burial grounds right okay I guess back then it was still a thing but now


oh my God it's like it's like a that's a that's a if you're a writer do not but you move the headstones you didn't move the


grapes um let me scratch that right yeah let's take that right out of your story if that's yeah in in the book to go into a


little bit more uh it was a high society thing Mobsters were murdered there


socialites the lady in the bathtub was the socialite and the whole thing so like every ghost uh when they were


walking through the hallway the guy the two guys in the room with the teddy bear costume in the book they're all kind of


explained but that's why I leaned towards the hotel just absorbing everybody because they're all still there yeah that makes sense


yeah Lake didn't royism like he kind of knew I guess about the movie like we didn't watch his trailer or anything


um so it was interesting to me like he didn't realize when the girls first showed up he thought they were guests so I just left it alone yeah she was like


all right no find out soon enough but like he he thought there were other guests yeah the thing like he missed it that they were taking I guess you missed


it they were taking over for the winter and yeah just the family I thought they were guests there was somebody else that you see that he thought was there too


and I was like all right speaking of the twins uh my favorite way to freak Phil about is to when it's dark or whatever I


say come play with us then I didn't notice this but the first time uh you know when Jax when they're all


meeting in the lobby they're arriving they've got so much luggage yeah yeah


they've noticed that's like a beetle yeah yeah how did that all feel yeah I don't know and the other thing was when


uh Danny's playing darts and those girls come walking in yeah I think that was the hotel coming like one of the


pictures coming into live to come check out this


his wonderful camera work the the zoom in on Danny when he turns look at the


girls was was was God awful in my opinion oh yeah well I just don't get it man you know right maybe I don't get it I was just like at least I was like whoa


what what happened there yeah you know it just nothing subtle about it right in his face yeah the whole movie was meant


to make you uncomfortable no no all the way around and it depends in a lot of places in the right way and then I think it doesn't it does in a lot of wrong


ways too yeah we meet we meet dick the head chef with gifts like Danny the two discuss the gift Tony wants his keeper


his Secrets kept like Tony uh doesn't want to talk too much doesn't want to


reveal too much Danny doesn't want to talk about Tony and then we get this ominous foreshadowing of room 237 where


they thought are you scared room 237 that's the the setup of Doc was I'm pretty sure that was lifted from the book from wrong James so so the dialogue


that I really liked was lifted from the book anyways but um just the setting up of document and stuff because the because uh dick the


chef calls him doc yeah and when he's like hey how'd you how'd you call him you know how did you call him dogs oh I


must have heard you or whatever and she's like I'm pretty sure I didn't say it you know but you know his audience you're like no they didn't this is first


we're hearing this yeah right I thought that was well done yeah like well played by the actors and no absolutely like the


reveal and the dialogue but again I think that was all bright Kings anyways but sure uh that's the second title card


the third title card is one month later so I guess they have a month where everything is going fine uh seemingly


everything in order breakfast in bed Wendy's bringing Jack breakfast in bed Jack Loves the Overlook more than any


other place he's been feels he's like he's been here before but he's maybe experiencing some writer's block and I always check my


head when I hear that you know I said I would stop so it's been a month yeah right and she asked him when she bring


some breakfast in bed anything that uh nothing yet you've had a month man to do nothing good Phil if you don't have a


month sit down and write how much stuff would we come up with well where we had nothing else no other responsibilities not even a family because this guy you


know yeah well I mean most writers would kill for that kind of time you know if


you're not a footballer Jack Torrance does very good James Fortune I was thinking


throughout this whole movie Philip would like to go be isolated that's the same thing Kayla and I'm sitting there going oh no is this a documentary of Phil


going to the hotel I watched a movie about a guy going mad and you merely thought of Phil that's [ __ ] up no no


not going up to the mountains for five months just to write no but the way you uh something he would do yeah well but


but not me I think I need to be yeah I think any introvert would enjoy this would be okay for this job we're an


extrovert it would go nuts right so they should have and you add the snow and I am out you have no [ __ ] wants to snow


but um they should have had uh like a personality test for the interview right to see an introvert or


extrovert I think they're pretty desperate like who's for sure who's letting take that up yeah yeah uh


so yeah one with like Wendy and Danny are running through the maze enjoying the Maze and then we cut to Jack I said


Jack seems to be in a maze of his own so we got this Wendy and Danny in the Maze and then Jack I think is in some kind of


catatonic State at that point right yeah is that the shot where he's looking out the window like a psychopath yes


and then he looks down at the like a makeup of the Maze and then it cuts to them yeah I did think I feel like that


was set up didn't think about till later but like so he he doesn't go right she's like come outside with us and he's like no I got writing to do liar yeah so they


go and do the they're they're out in the Maze yes later on the boy runs to the maze to lose him and Jack gets lost in


there I feel like that's set up you didn't go earlier buddy now you're lost you know yeah that's true yeah I I made


mention of that model the whole time yeah right because you know obviously even if you've been through the maze it'd still be still suck yeah but I


think so my question was you know Danny bright kid or whatever he must have memorized he had to have memorized the


out of that maze because he knew he was leading Jack deep into that maze yeah


he walks backwards on this yeah so he knows very smart for a five-year-old he's four years old this kid was four


years old when he made this movie I think that's what I heard but I looked it up and it said five so same same


thing yeah yeah four or five yeah that's an amazing job yeah I'm running around that maze I'm not gonna walk back and


just do my tracks yeah yeah right yeah fourth title card Tuesday


how many Tuesdays since that month a storm is coming ridiculous Danny sees room 237 and another vision of the


sisters these are Grady's daughters I guess Jack is writing so he's actually typing on the typewriter at this point


now we don't know what he's typing it's revealed later what he is but yeah Tuesday


I do think he well yeah I'm gonna commit to this I think he thought he was writing a story like like I don't think


it's a good idea no there's something I want to bring up maybe at the end that


will explain that okay it's like one of the conspiracy theories that all right okay yeah does he think he's writing a


story probably yeah well that's what I was always wondered different formatting I like its dialogue


and different things and yeah and it was great


no I I thought I remember seeing it the first time and thinking that was a pretty cool reveal and I think it is


sure yeah no I don't have a problem with the review yeah but if he was to me if he was typing the same thing it would


just all be lying after line after line yeah there's a couple Pages like that but there's other stuff that's yeah but it's almost like there is dialogue there


it's just like it's broken up into their yes paragraphs reaching out for a catalyst


there is the scene where Jack is typing uh and Wendy comes in and this is the


quote that Chris Chris likes you know you know whether I'm typing or not you hear whatever I'm typing you're not


typing or whatever the [ __ ] you hear me doing here it means I'm working yeah I can't come in here get the F out of here


right so that's the sign that's hanging above in my writing room yeah because I think it's funny [ __ ] like it was


god-awful it's terrible that did you say that to somebody and mean it the way he did but yeah so whenever Lathan Stacy


come into my room when I'm writing to bother me because I have no door just playfully point at the sign go hey you know yeah you know and they ignore it


and they laugh and they go on and tell me what they're telling me anyways right I did have a uh on that note just real quick uh I actually did some writing


this morning and uh ladies had come up and was you know bothering me with you know whatever he was doing so when the


scene played I was like see his face you saw that face this morning didn't you light sort of left yeah we need to get


you an ax yeah right next to that sign oh that's I love it James that's wonderful that's right read the ax read


the X you remember what no it's fine I just I have uh the


Catalyst as him you know telling her to get the [ __ ] out of there now this is the catalyst for Wendy I think because


this is Wendy's first experience with something because she reacts and you can


see her debating in her mind what do I make of this okay she was even gonna bring him lunch the [ __ ] dick right


you know yes so at that point I'm like well whose story is this it's a catalyst I think it's a change in


behavior markedly for Wendy and I think she debates this uh this is Wendy and


Danny's story is what I have written here Wendy debates internally the rock that just got dropped into her Pond


Danny debates the issue of room 237 because he's there and he's trying to decide whether he wants to go in he


decides he goes in to room 237 and I guess gets choked or whatever um because I couldn't find any debate or


anything it's got to be right around there because I would Peg it if it were gonna go for Jack it's him sitting at


the bar taking the drink like that's his yeah next Moment Like that's when he


gets taken over by the hotel and he doesn't debate for a second about taking that drink no he's had five months six


months and a Tuesday debate Yeah well yeah and a Wednesday and a Saturday and all these other random days that don't


mean anything yeah but yeah structure wise I have no clue no I don't I don't know that there is yeah I mean I see


what you're saying about the the the big moment of him sudden take a drink um like I have that but that's like way


later to me yeah that was like makes no sense yeah midpoint Falls to feet maybe because that's when she he does that


right after she um I guess we're jumping a handle it but Raptor well I mean we're almost there he said he goes in room 23


237 when Danny comes out he's all oh yeah jacket had this horrible nightmare and uh Wendy was in the cellar with the


boy yeah and heard him screaming and then she goes up there and then Danny comes and she's like oh I'll just I'll get him out of here I'll come out of the room and then she gets closer she


realize he's you know damn near catatonic sucking on his thumb and his face and sugar messed up there's and


then she accuses Jack because there's nobody else in the damn thing it had to be Jack right in her mind yeah yeah she accused them


but they're after they're scenes where Danny's playing and wants to go get his toy and she's like no don't wake your father so she is that was after the yeah


she is clearly yep debating her activity now around yep


there's 40 40 other rooms I can be in I'll be in those yeah okay did y'all not find it funny though that


scene where Jack is sitting there at the bar and he's talking to who was he talking about


he's talking to Lloyd and um what is her name Wendy Wendy she runs


up and says let's see I wrote it down hold on someone in the hotel there's someone are you are that's trying to


strangle Danny and his response was are you out of your mind yeah and he's sitting there talking to


Lloyd who's not there so well he sees him though yeah yeah no no definitely funny like I was like all right here's


the guy here's the guy who's clearly crazy and then he has the nerve to ask her that yeah so she's completely flipped though from


yeah did you do this you son of a [ __ ] to hey there's somebody else there's a psycho lady and not once does she


especially not that just kind of necessarily deserves an apology right but if you've got a guy who's flying off the handle and he's


abusive like you'd think she would apologize hey Jack I'm so sorry I accused you of attacking our kid again


and some she said you know what I mean however they go sorry I accused you of doing something entirely in your character


I'm just saying like she never apologizes right but she did convince that there's this [ __ ] crazy lady in


237 yeah no I no I hear you though yeah just that was weird to me we get a fifth


title card it's Thursday now and it's very short it's like the snow has come right I only have one line the snow has


come and Jack is gone I guess at this point he is off his I don't even remember the whole scene


this is where he goes to the room where are we skipping that because he goes to the room yeah he goes up to the room check it out yeah have we jumped a


far two head oh wow have we jumped a far too head jumped up


I'm wording we haven't jumped too far ahead I had to think about it to put the words in order


James yeah I don't know I'm saying I'm gonna say it like that now because it wasn't you're welcome out there there's


not a lot happening on this fifth not a lot happening on Thursday like it's a very short if I remember oh man Saturday


was the day when stuff was happening I'm playing yeah well the six title card is Saturday Jack is typing I was joking


like okay cool the title cards annoying the [ __ ] out of me so I was just picking a random day I


had one of seven so the next next title card is Saturday when Jack is typing Wendy gets the ranger station on the


radio she has disregarded okay yeah she has disregarded Jack's previous Behavior


or has taken a tactical avoidance like when Danny wants to get his toys but Wendy does not want him to disturb Jack


Danny sees the girls again they speak this time come play with us Danny whatever forever as I go share


how's it going forever and ever go stand in the hallway I was gonna have to wait


till the lights are out uh oh there was a note on that um real quick um so the girls say come play with us standing


forever and ever and ever right um the the forever and ever and ever bit uh that's what Jack tells Danny about


you know I want to stay in this hotel ever ever never thought that was cool yeah that's cool again goes back to the hotel oh yeah


stay with us it's a dad because Danny's even asked him Hey Dad are you happy are you oh yeah everybody else having


miserable time but dead right uh I don't get any work done you know Danny continues to debate his call pictures in


a book so I see this is still a debate of Danny and Wendy so it at that point


I'm leaning toward it being their story in terms of having to deal with this evil uh seven title card is Monday Danny is


warned about the story okay so this is when what happened to Sunday man well it's Saturday to Monday they arrest yeah


all right they arrested no evil on Sunday Danny is warned about disturbing Jacks [ __ ]


date on Wednesday baby Danny is warned about disturbing Jack goes to get his toy speaks with Jack who can't sleep


there is too much to do confesses he loves the hotel wish they could stay forever yep sorry so yeah I jumped too


far and then and then Danny asked he'd never hurt us would you did your mom tell you that yeah it starts yeah yeah


well he even says to Lloyd you know I would never hurt the little bastard or whatever yeah it was one time one time


and that the little [ __ ] had my papers all over I love this is what do you call them right I love them I just you know


all this but but his mother you know now you little [ __ ] had my papers all over the


room yeah but I would never hurt him all right I I'm just a liar I'm not a good


writer and a bad dad you know yeah here I have a the break into two which maybe


I'm like trying to nail Jello to the wall is it the break in the two I don't know I I'm gonna call it the break into


two eighth title card Wednesday Danny is playing ball in the hall a ball


oh Dan he's playing in the hall ball is rolled from nowhere he thinks he's calling out his mother Mom Mom this is


the door to 237 thing open and Danny goes in Jack is having nightmares dreamed he killed Wendy and Danny and


chopped them up into little pieces Wendy to the rescue he she comes Jack confesses he feels like he is losing so


he has a Moment of clarity here where he says he feels like he's losing his mind yeah just for a moment no and that's also to Jameson about seducing him like


even what this means sleeping yes right it's it's you know is it all terminating his mind and his dreams and and


basically telling him this is what you need to do in in in the book Danny his vision his shining is showing him the


things to come yeah but when he comes out of his State he can't remember it so he's having nightmares too but he's


waking up going I can't remember what it is horror so it's going it's spreading around the family


uh Danny appears but is only Tony now Jack is cut so he has a Moment of


clarity but then immediately goes into a catatonic State Jack does uh uh Danny


has Bruises And this is when Wendy accuses yeah Jack goes to the bar and so again


before James brought Clarity to this I was like okay well is this a better character coming back to the hotel


because he goes to talk and he recognizes Lloyd and Lloyd recognizes him you were always the best Lloyd you


were you were always the best past tense always the best bartender you're talking like you know you know it


is weird I don't know but no but if it's a seduction then then yeah because here's a guy who badly needs a drink


wants to drink right and he hasn't had any and like and they even make a note of saying there's nothing there earlier


right yes was even confused about this scene about hey is this happening or not I'm like no


they showed us there's nothing there right like this I said you'll see in a minute when Wendy comes up she can't see him or whatever like this I said this


dude's not even having a drink I mean he did all this [ __ ] sober yes you know what I mean Under the Influence kind of


yeah well I mean okay yes I mean the psychotic break but there was no when they did a toxicology on the on his body


there was no alcohol in his body like there's nothing there for him to drink they said again in the book that's not the show I'm just saying but uh when


Wendy comes in and Jack has had you know Many Many Drinks by then she can smell


the Gin oh yeah in the room and he stinks of it really so still think it's


not there it's the hotel yeah the hotel is making him act that way like he's thinking I mean yes yeah but Wendy can


smell it yeah that's cool okay well in Stephen King's The Shining


um miniseries Wendy picks up a bottle of Jack or whatever sitting there and hits him over


the head nice so there's actually a bottle like a baseball bat or she hits them multiple times no she hits him with


a a bottle of alcohol yeah cool that was sitting there and it had it had a note on there


um I think it said um from from the hotel stuff the management Yeah Yeah


from the minute that's what it was from the management but she actually picks up a bottle of I forget what kind of


alcohol it is and just whatever it is the hotel is manifesting yeah just like the stuff she sees later on towards the


end like that's not there right I mean yeah she sees the corpses and the anyway yeah and they struggle with that too


because he's like all right well they're ghosts I'm like okay yeah they're ghosts but remember Danny got like a shirt ripped in his face actually so they can interact with you yeah Lloyd let's our


Grady lets them out of the correct yeah let them out yeah that's what it was like how did he actually get out does he actually get out I'm like hey you know


and interact with you which is really messed up you know one of the questions I had when watching this is uh of course


she all y'all know I watch a lot of ghost shows and um listen to these certified horror


addicts my goodness yes and then when he called him I don't know I don't know but uh a lot of these people who have these


abilities like Danny um it actually runs in in the family so my question was


always is Jack does he have The Shining or is it the hotel that is I don't think


exactly I don't think he ever has Visions like that I think no he doesn't before James says yes so far but some


people will have psychic abilities but they don't open up to it or they don't


yeah sure you know and maybe the hotel but then when his mother when Wendy


starts seeing things then I'm like okay well this is just it's free for all well I think that's the hotel the hotel's


gained its strength yeah it's drawing like a vampire off of The Shining and like dick Halloran has a little bit so


is like pictures in a book but Danny is like a nuclear grade yeah weapon like


that much power so the hotel's really coming alive I don't know well anyway moving into so


if that's fun and games right uh dick in Miami I really dick really likes his artwork


did you yeah oh and the lights coming down they shaped like boobs too man oh I didn't see the lights oh yeah I noticed


the the poster above the TV and the one above is just bad I'm like lights of course notice it too or whatever and he


comment about the lady's hair I'm like he said oh that's some big hair I'm like that's the whole thing you saw


today he goes and other things there is much made of uh


sexual imagery in The Shining I mean you could watch these documentaries oh my God but I didn't I didn't understand it


right well for for dick yeah yeah I don't know like why would he like a porno mag on the nightstand if he's


single like cool but just have it which okay you want to post a fight have a poster but it just yeah it just seems


like painting he was like Florida he was having a good time snow he's down there to just work a


little and have a good time it didn't strike you as weird though no the um there I caught it in when Danny goes


into room 237 yeah the pattern on the carpet is very phallic oh is it yeah uh


okay this is the point where you know it's it's almost unmistakable is that you're nice the pad it's looped patterns


and then and that's probably Kubrick uh you know I'm sure he thought that was


just the greatest thing I don't you know I don't know what it means like the carpet look like dicks it'll be really artsy yeah


yeah Jack investigates so this is where Jack investigates room 237 for Wendy and


gets what I I put down he gets catfished right so he's yeah he does Big Time


right so yep and then at this at this point I was


even came out of the water I like it yeah at this point I was getting slap happy because you know Jack gets


catfished dick yeah I got that too got slap Happy from the girl coming out of


the tub well in my notes I started just yeah at this


point I'm off the rail so I think with his pictures on the wall he makes a call and I said dick is gets call us


interrupted he can't call us interruptus he can't get the hotel on the line right


so um Danny must have made it up Jack claims he didn't see a thing in room


237. yeah and Danny's trying to call Dick in Florida with his was his mind


yes because dick has his vision because he's that Danny is that powerful to


reach that far uh Danny has more Visions Jack is angrier not gonna let Wendy [ __ ]


it up you know at this point uh he goes to a party free drinks from


Lloyd and a word with Grady who has no recollection of killing his family and forms Jack he is the caretaker and


always been the caretaker and then the two discuss correcting Wendy and there's this discussion of correcting the family


and yeah well because yeah he has no election no recollection at first right you've always been the caretaker sir and


then he reveals that yeah I think at that moment when lace realized oh [ __ ] that's the girls and yeah this is the


guy like it was it was very funny that he had just cut on at that point he also had a like an interesting note he's like


they're in like Target's bathroom yeah it's all red and white and like it's you know that's what he calls it I'm like


because it was kind of a it was a weird bathroom well it's very very yeah and not I feel like it didn't match the the


room for somebody in the ballroom I don't know why I'm sure that the red balls and white meant something you know Kubrick could probably I don't know uh


Wendy is making plans to leave and then Danny Tony or I put Danny slash Tony


because he's mostly Tony uh coming up it starts


um dick gets no answer from The Overlook uh ninth title card possible break into three here I you know again just trying


to nail it down dick flies to Colorado Jack is typing and Dick's plane comes in for landing


Wendy goes around with a bat now like she's going around armed at this point right uh looking for Jack she discovers


that Jack's writing is a bit repetitive right all works nice yeah I guess that even


through structures oh it's 8 AM by the way the title card was 8 A.M really I thought I thought it was nine


so I'm glad I missed it yeah 8 am what bothering me into structure wise so he has the big scene in the with Grady


in the Target bathroom yeah and talks about corrections that need to be made right and how they could foil all his


plans and he I'm not he's not gonna let Wendy [ __ ] it up right yeah but then he goes back to typing like it's been a while since I've seen this and I was


thinking all right well here's the next scene when he starts trying to chase him and attack him and kill him and all that nope back to typing yeah like because


she's got to put him in the freezer first so they're just weird like yeah oh I'll correct it let him go back to writing so and maybe that's him fighting


against the you know the the hotel or something you know but you know they didn't see that


you know Kubrick was changing the script constantly yeah it got to the point where uh Jack Nicholson even said he


didn't didn't know he didn't even read it until I guess it was Tom or whatever


that sounds totally like a douche thing to do and uh you know yeah yeah oh but


it's Kubrick I'm smarter today than I was yesterday so let me make pages I mean I'm sure that's got a yeah as an


actor you're preparing for a role and you've taken the time to get these lines and how you and then you get page changes because Kubrick wants to you


know yeah no I can totally see each other well I'll tell you what you know I'll you give me these [ __ ] night before and I'll be ready tomorrow yeah


I'm not gonna go down the road and be ready yeah I'll be ready in two weeks don't [ __ ] that oh my God


Zach may not have okay can you use picture in Cooper like the whole time like his face and what he was wanting to


kill and you know yeah catch up into little pieces he was really talking to Kubrick you know yeah the script was allegedly changed so many


times during production even a couple of times a day that Jack Nicholson uh simply stopped reading it yeah what's


the point here I wrote Jack may not have a hit on his hands but Wendy gets one with her


hands knocks him on the ground with her back Jack is dragged to the Foot Locker


Food Locker Jack has been busy though you're not going anywhere he has disabled the snow cap and the radio and


the radio yeah I do like the shot of like from the floor oh yeah no absolutely like when he's in there Wendy and yeah like that was those no that was


good tenth title card it's 4 P.M same day apparently I guess


that's the only one I'll take him back that one maybe makes sense because I think it cuts back to him being in the


freezer and if you win the freezer on Tuesday and then we're cutting down the [ __ ] not even a freezer he's going to be dead I think it's just a pantry


Pantry because there's no ice in there it's just no it's a big door it's a cool Pantry yeah but it's not a freezer no


it's not the freezer it's the pantry because he's like yeah because he's got peanut butter in the yeah he's eating one yeah well then yeah then it doesn't


even matter they could have gone from Tuesday to Saturday I was gonna say if they go to Saturday food in there he's looking like he did at the end being frozen but yeah I thought it was a


freezer so much I was paying attention because it's a big door like a freezer well I kept thinking that too right the peanut butter and I'll notice whenever


this climate controlled humidity control yeah so he's all right huh Grady visits Jack doubts his abilities I and the


others harshest possible way is recommended now it says yeah a great year says they must


be dealt with in the harshest possible way Jack says he's up to it Grady releases Jack now at this point I'm


thinking because uh Stephen King is a work a day writer but he I think he does draw upon some of


his favorite things and puts him in books right uh this scene was very it


reminded me a great deal of the stand when when flag releases Lloyd from prison here uh Jack says he's up to it


Grady releases Jack reminiscent of flag releasing Lloyd from the cell in the stand uh you make a deal and I'll let


you out you know um so did uh King sort of draw on that


again maybe I mean it could be a I think it was just you know same guy wrote it's going to be similarities


that's what I'm saying yeah you know you have favorite things or whatever uh break into three dick drives to the


Overlook the hole here's Johnny scene which you know is very famous uh and that road dick comes along with his


adjoining Carson reference correct yeah yeah Edmund man would say Here's Johnny yeah because the curtains would part and


then John comes out Johnny comes out right I swear to explain it away because that's oh fairly certain but I was I


wanted to make sure I asked the guy before Jimmy it's like why was he his name Jack why does he say you're joining I'm like well it's it's done great and


then explain it there's a guy before Jimmy uh Jimmy Fallon the guy before Jay Leno yeah was Johnny Carson correct you


know I've seen him but I didn't I wanted to make sure that that here's Johnny was Johnny Carson's uh Carson reference in


1980 it would have been recognizing easily reckoned yeah yeah dick gets a hatchet to the side or


the head yeah he's fighting the stuff right in the sternum and he's out all that way all that travel just well I


mean it he was a distraction he pulled Jack away from Wendy sure so I guess he


bought him some time Sherry's got it Sherry's got it we talked about it earlier that is how they escaped they um


when they when Jack kept saying something about the um whatever they called it the cat or


whatever the snow cat you know and he had destroyed it where they couldn't escape you know it's it's almost like


of uh on horrible feelings like okay we're doomed because there's no way no


one's coming to get us but then shows up dick with the other snowmobile and that


that's their escape yeah yeah no I I was irritable you've got on a plane he drove other way and did nothing he died he


delivered it okay and then yep I'm sure he goes Nobody delivers it I'm like okay I'll shut the hell up then


there's Wendy starts seeing visions and and again at this point I'm just looking for jokes uh she sees this weird scene


in the hotel and I put you won't remember this it was a show called BJ and the bear well that's what we saw him


a long time yeah and so used I was like what is this BJ in the back because there's a guy in a bear costume my note


says bare ass BJ and a bear wow yeah BJ and the bear was a story about a truck driver who had a chimp as a partner and


they would they would you know thanks for ruining you know my note was this is bare ass but you know Bear the animal


and then ask yeah because BJ and the bear not the 1978 yeah what the [ __ ] I don't understand that like why do we got


to see that what's well it's not not what's going on there but why why are we seeing that Kubrick likes art nasty bits


that's fine that's who doesn't like a nasty bit uh maze Chase did Danny memorize the path of the maze I think he


probably was smart and I think he's a gifted kid he probably did cobwebs and corpses blood elevator so Wendy sees the


blood elevator that that Danny had seen the blood pouring out of the yellow usually gets off on the third floor but


this time it hit the ground floor that's right well I mean I thought the book came on Tuesday and now it's coming Saturday and Wendy sees it also yeah


everybody saw it like a thousand times a thousand times Yeah Wendy gets a vision of her own I put poor dick as limp he


gets killed sorry terrible terrible joke Jack I like it jacket's cooling he's


running around the Maze and is is lost too he's getting colder and colder Danny exits the maze reunites with Wendy


they have a new snow cat in the driveway final image jacking a photo from 1921 you have always been here I forgot him


being frozen yeah amazing he's Frozen like popsicle froze I like popsicle yeah um so late to the Ready Player one I


don't know if you guys have seen that yeah we watched the movie night one time okay thank you for the reminder yeah


long time um that's I guess like probably the most that late knew about this movie oh um so like a lot of the


imagery from that movie where they go into the The Shining universe universe or whatever in Ready Player one like he


remembered some of that like the blood because the characters in the regular one actually get caught up like and they're floating in the wood oh yeah


it's been a long time and then the somehow the old lady ends up with the ax out in the Maze down in uh in Ready


Player one but anyhow like laith was connecting the dots there oh but did he see Twister because the girls are in


twister those same girls yeah yeah he's seen it but yeah I don't guess


he yeah he didn't put it together that's the scariest scene to me of Twister not because of the girls but because it's in


the dark you see oh yeah tornado coming the so I'm gonna ruin uh with the conspiracy theory about The Shining


and see if this changes your mind on it all of this is in Wendy's head yeah so I


didn't read that theory I heard that but I haven't Wendy has lost her mind she's having a schizophrenic episode


from the moment we see her like even Danny brushing his teeth or after that uh when they essentially when they get


to the hotel she starts to have a psychotic break so that's why you know when Jack loses it at her uh and then


he's back to normal just typing away let's type she's imagining all these crazy things happening what is the


foundation of that theory like or is that just it's essentially the edits of the movie oh yeah there are light


switches in places and then they're not there and the next time you see them they're slight fixtures that are there


they're not there the first time you see that area then they're there the second time there's all kinds of little things


in the background that move there's chairs that are there in one scene and then when the camera turns back to Jack


Nicholson that chair is not there this is Stanley Kubrick you're right he doesn't make mistakes quote unquote so


people have come up with a theory that it's all in Wendy's mind she's the one that choked Annie she's the one causing


all the issues but it's all in her head yeah and Jack's trying to remember ever heard that Jack's trying to be in a


remote Hotel alone with a person have a psychotic break


yeah and I've seen movies that how much you want to put in that I don't know well I've seen movies that have pulled that there was a Shutter Island and sure


and then there was a uh Jack uh Jack Cusack was uh identity


well I thought it was very very clever yeah so if you're gonna do that do it no exactly that's what I'm saying is if you


have to fill in the blanks with something like that you don't have the


movie you think you do right right I thought identity and uh Shutter Island I I really enjoyable and and I'd enjoy the


Twist and and even even uh uh I see dead people what's the name of that movie uh


six sense right oh my God a neck breaker twist at the end right I mean and it's done brilliantly and and but the


audience is rewarded with that knowledge yeah at the end here you're if that's even the case you're never given yeah


and I guess it's too artsy to actually tell the audience at the end that this is what's happened you know I don't know


sure I guess I I much prefer uh I I like those kind of things but but do


them you know I mean I don't I don't mind a movie that has a bit of a ambiguous ending and I gotta think about


it a little bit and keeps me thinking about it but yeah this um if that was if the if the winning


thing is true yeah he missed the Mark I don't I don't think that's I guess yeah because leaving the like if you change the script you know eight times a day or


whatever it was oh yeah um he didn't have a plan which explains light fixtures and well who's to say


he's not changing the set eight times a day too right like yeah he didn't have anything so and we know how like movies


work with the coverage and all that that's why [ __ ] moves right that's why there's continuity errors anyways because they shoot all these things over


and over and over and yeah [ __ ] gets moved if you're changing it every day or so many times that your your actors


stopped reading you you one you've lost the confidence of your actors and two who does that that is not a way you know


if you're artistic that's fine you have an artistic Vision that's great but how changing it every day uh yeah I mean


this thing gets made a couple years later with Val Kilmer in the in the main role this movie's not going to get finished yeah he's going to walk out


yeah yeah uh changing yeah that that to me is just flying by the seat of your pants and you


don't have a plan even as an artist whatever uh anyway that's that's The


Shining I don't any closing thoughts or any other uh it would have been uh no


we spilled it all out I so pass recommend consider there was a time when


I would have recommended this movie um now I think if you just wanna see the best parts is go to YouTube and


watch Jack Nicholson's several scenes and be done uh you know watch it once


okay fine but I don't I in good conscience cannot recommend it as a movie that is really worth your time at


this point not when there's YouTube and clips I I would say you at least gotta watch it once


so you can watch Doctor sleep yeah because Dr sleep is a tremendous movie


yeah and I would highly recommend that one this one I would I'm probably not going to watch it very


much anymore but yeah it's worth a one watch at least yeah kind of the same boat like I think


if you're if you're looking for you know checking off Classics on your on your list or you're checking off horror


movies and yeah watch it but if it's you know outside of that yeah it's not a movie that to me holds up and and


there's a lot of value for multiple viewings right um yeah yeah


okay um yeah uh this was my pick um I've only seen it a couple of times


I've never bought it until just now because I don't prefer that over Stephen King's


version of The Shining the miniseries but I do recommend watching The Shining


if you want to see a haunted house horror movie Whatever uh


like you said it's a classic um yes it's a classic because Kubrick


heads make it a classic well and all right Jack Nicholson's performance yeah okay yes watch this all right so okay


where's the Actors Studio if you're one of those types then yes Jack Nicholson is the only redeeming thing I think


about this movie but you're not going to this movie for the story that's what we're saying right essentially okay but


if you're a fan of Stephen King and you want to see um what he intended from his book I


haven't read his book but from what I understand um the Stephen King TV series version is


is more like it it is three discs basically


um because it was a three night two hour each night series


um it does actually take place and is filmed in the Stanley Hotel which is


where Stephen King got the inspiration for the movie he stayed there it's on my


bucket list to to visit y'all never been there no no I've been there oh my


goodness Stanley or the Stanley okay Overlook I don't think the Overlook is in Oregon or somewhere


no the Overlook is in Oregon or something and the out shot I outside


shots they only filmed there but it actually they filmed The Shining movie


in London England or something so it wasn't there is really a hotel like that and


they built a set like the one in Stanley Kubrick's but that's in a different state I think I'm confusing the the real


one I guess the Stanley the Stanley is it yeah the Stanley we went on a ghost tour there and good news for Philip they


have a channel on their TV that plays The Shining 24 oh my God I heard that so I did hear that crazy


um yeah and and there are I just listened to one podcast um let me see what the name of it the


haunted road with um Amy Bruni um another


podcast slash ghost show that I watch uh anyway she just did last week an episode


about the Stanley Hotel so um all kinds of information about that but


I mean watch them both yeah I mean I'm like I might go so far as consider well


you know if you if you like haunted movies or haunted house there's a lot


more ghosts I think and and Stephen King's version sure uh to me it's more fun yeah not as bad language like in the


other one yeah so I think less pornographic paintings oh my yeah well


now that's Kubrick and you you know symbolism and I don't know what I think King is by far the more competent


Storyteller so if you're looking for a competent story Stephen King's The Shining oh yeah as a as a competent


Storyteller is far superior to in the book let me ask you right quick since you've read the book did the book end


like this movie ends with the boiler blowing up but Danny


um actually encouraged his father to let it blow up did it do that did they do


that his father remember his father winds up being a hero because he he ends up being a hero that's the thing in the


book he kind of comes out of it a little bit and was like I gotta destroys the


hotel on the ghost yeah destroys everything and then it ends with um and


Dick lives and attends his high school it ends with the high school graduation I think it is with Danny in the movie


yeah and it it turns out I don't know if it's in the movie or not but in the book uh Tony is Danny 10 years in the future


yes and that this one moves out and um like I said I haven't read it so I was


hoping that's how it was that's the way it is that the the Stephen King's The Shining miniseries is a lot closer


Stephen King's in it and he wrote he must approve it yeah and uh but um yeah


that was one thing because a lot of times I have a problem with how Stephen King ends his stories but this one I


actually have thought that has to be one of the best endings if if his father is actually the hero


yeah that's how it ends is Jack Torrance is the hero he goes down there and is with it when it explodes yeah to save


his family yeah yeah and that to me like uh in the the doxley book like I said the sequel


is great um and obviously he one of the biggest differences from the movie dog sleep in the the book is the hotel does


blow up in the book world so he can't go back to it right we're in the movie he as a grown man Danny goes back to him I


thought that was one of the things was really cool that they like in hindsight you know them deciding not to blow it up


in the in the in the in the movie like being able to yeah for a movie-wise having that iconic you know and Doctor


sleep the book they go back to the site of the hotel that it exploded yeah but


not not the same like he's walking around the same Halls movies walking around the same Halls looking at the door that has red room and the hole in


it from the ax like all this stuff it's really good movies well I'm gonna go back and watch uh Stanley Kubrick's


shining then and then I'm gonna rent um yes you're gonna like doctor sleep a


lot yep all right I'll check it out yeah so all right but yeah I guess


consider it was the word Phil yeah consider it if you're looking for Classics or you know a horror but yeah


yeah all right anything else nope all right that is the uh


The Shining happy Halloween yeah so enjoy this in October all right we are


out the rift started between Stephen King and Stanley Kubrick almost immediately


yeah and what I like are about four scenes


from Jack Nicholson he just seems kind of like a Down and Out loser a little bit if you're a writer and you think


there's such a thing as writer's Glock then you're full of [ __ ] okay it's a blue collar grinded out story and


Stephen King doesn't f a round right sure right twisty ride that's going to go off the race well I'm sure it's


artistic and you just don't get it yeah we're all going to have a real good time I'm gonna murder my family to be a


famous author he is going to resist the three-act structure come play with those things


no evil on Sunday you know Kubrick was changing the script constantly the script was allegedly


changed so many times during production even a couple of times a day that Jack Nicholson uh simply stopped reading it


yeah what's the point

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About the Podcast

Fellowship Of The Reel
One movie review podcast to rule them all
A single movie is more powerful than a thousand realities...or something.
Come to Fellowship Of The Reel, a movie review podcast beyond the furthest reaches of your imagination.
Four movie fans meet to discuss, debate, and ultimately review movies of their own choosing.
One Movie Review Podcast To Rule Them All!

About your hosts

Philip McClimon

Profile picture for Philip McClimon
Philip A. McClimon is an author who likes to write about the end of the world (post apocalyptic, Sci/Fi), mostly because he thinks the shopping would be awesome (No crowds, everything free). He likes heroes that are the strong, silent type and not necessarily male. By silent he means up until the time there is something snarky to say, usually before, during, and after doing something cool.

He writes Urban Fantasy under the name Billy Baltimore for no other reason than that he likes the name. Many of the same rules for his other stories apply to Billy’s, strong silent types, smart mouth, does cool stuff, but these stories take place in a made up town called Hemisphere and involve stuff you only ever hear about on late night conspiracy talk show podcasts, which are, if you think about it, pretty awesome too.

So, that's Phil. He's not strong, rarely silent, and isn't known for doing a lot of cool things.

But his characters are.

Sherry McClimon

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The wife of Philip McClimon. Probably all that needs to be said. She is responsible for his bad behavior not being worse than it is. She is concerned that her mother might listen.

James Harris

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James Harris is a tech guru and musician extraordinaire; he also loves movies. A pretty decent guy all around.

Chris Sapp

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Chris Sapp has been a friend for a lot of years and a writer for a lot more. An encyclopedic knowledge of story and movies, he can take you on a deep dive into script and screen. Another pretty decent guy, which are the only kind allowed around here.