'Scream': A Cinematic Revolution in the Slasher Genre
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This podcast episode delves into the intricate mechanics of the horror genre, specifically focusing on the seminal film "Scream." We explore how analyzing a movie at the mechanical level can yield profound insights into its narrative structure and thematic elements. The discussion emphasizes that filmmakers do not set out to create subpar films; rather, the complexities of production and audience expectations often influence the final product. We also dissect the character dynamics and plot devices that contribute to the film's enduring popularity, particularly its self-referential humor and the way it revitalized the horror genre. Ultimately, our conversation reflects on the film's cultural impact and its role in shaping contemporary horror cinema.
Engaging in a critical examination of the film 'Scream', we embark on a journey through its narrative intricacies and cultural significance. The episode opens with a discussion of the film's release amid a transformative period for horror cinema, marking the resurgence of the slasher genre with its self-aware narrative style. We delve into the film's structural components, analyzing the pivotal role of suspense and surprise, particularly in the infamous opening sequence that fundamentally redefined audience expectations. The character of Sidney Prescott is scrutinized as we explore her journey, highlighting her transformation from an unsuspecting high school student to a formidable protagonist confronting her fears. The dichotomy between innocence and the brutal reality of violence permeates our conversation, as we dissect the motivations behind the actions of characters such as Billy and Stu, whose complex backgrounds inform their malevolence. The exploration of themes such as betrayal, identity, and the impact of societal pressures on youth enriches our analysis, revealing the film's depth beyond its surface-level thrills. As we conclude, we reflect on the lasting legacy of 'Scream', positing that its innovative approach to storytelling continues to influence contemporary horror films, inviting viewers to engage with the genre on a deeper, more introspective level.
Takeaways:
- The podcast discusses how studying movies on a mechanical level can yield significant insights into their structure and themes.
- I believe that very few filmmakers intentionally set out to create poor films; rather, many factors contribute to a film's outcome.
- The dialogue demonstrates that even actors can be perplexed by the narratives they portray, reflecting the complexity of storytelling in cinema.
- The episode emphasizes that early exposure to horror films can have a lasting impact on an individual's appreciation for the genre.
Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcript
Are you recording this?
Speaker B:Studying a movie in the mechanical level I think can really bring some revelation.
Speaker C:I believe that no one sets out to make a bad movie with the exception of.
Speaker D:On paper.
Speaker D:This should work.
Speaker B:This should work.
Speaker D:I just don't like it.
Speaker A:That's your own fault if you haven't seen it.
Speaker B:Way over budget.
Speaker B:Start cutting scenes.
Speaker B:Even the actors don't know what that movie is about.
Speaker B:I wish I wrote that.
Speaker C:Which I love the title, but that movie's trash.
Speaker B:Well, it's oatmeal, man.
Speaker B:It's good for you.
Speaker B:Okay, here we are.
Speaker B:Fellowship of the Real Four Friends in a movie.
Speaker B:We are continuing with our series of Halloween movies once a week for Halloween for the month of October.
Speaker B:And we are up to Scream.
Speaker B:This was.
Speaker B:Whose pick was this?
Speaker D:This was my pick.
Speaker B:This was James Pick.
Speaker B:Okay, this.
Speaker B:What.
Speaker B:When did this come out?
Speaker B:This came out 96.
Speaker B:96.
Speaker D:This is the reason I picked it.
Speaker D:This one came out when I was the perfect age.
Speaker D:I was 13, 14 at this time.
Speaker D:And this one, it came out around the holidays and just took off.
Speaker D:I think we were talking about how many, how many times have you seen a movie in the theater?
Speaker D:Yeah, I think I saw this one two or three times.
Speaker B:Really?
Speaker D:Because we were kids, you know.
Speaker D:Yeah, we just went off as a group.
Speaker C:So when you say perfect age, you mean perfect age for like, for movies to have like an impact on you or particularly maybe like horror movies have an impact.
Speaker D:I think all of the above.
Speaker D:And I think this one actually stands out as revitalizing the horror movie thing.
Speaker D:So just it.
Speaker D:I was the perfect demographic for this movie.
Speaker D:So I figured when we're talking about October horror movies, this one for my generation, really.
Speaker B:Well, I remember this came out how it was.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:I remember thinking this is genius, you know, that they've taken the whole history of slasher horror movies and boiled it down and made a movie, you know, with all the self referential parts to it.
Speaker B:And we will get into that as we go.
Speaker B:But it's very.
Speaker C:Playing with conventions.
Speaker B:Yeah, playing with conventions and Met and how meta it is, you know.
Speaker B:Anyway, I thought it was pure genius.
Speaker B:We'll see if it, if it holds up.
Speaker B:I mean I generally like this movie or whatever, but.
Speaker C:No, that's interesting that you say that for the perfect age because I guess I've had that a similar thought about a lot of movies and you know, it's got to be around the same time.
Speaker C:I mean we're around the same age pretty much.
Speaker C:So this one is not, I guess one of those for me.
Speaker C:But yeah, just.
Speaker C:I don't know, I guess.
Speaker C:I guess we talked about that before and I've definitely had that thought.
Speaker C:Like certain movies I know have a big impact on me.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker C:And been There all in that mid-90s range.
Speaker D:So that was around the time where I was just discovering my own stuff.
Speaker C:I think that's what it is.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker D:And by that time, that's when I started to branch out.
Speaker D:My older brother started showing me movies like Pulp Fiction and Reservoir Dogs and that kind of stuff and really opening it up.
Speaker D:But this was right about that time.
Speaker D:So I was just.
Speaker D:Just soaking all that in like a sponge.
Speaker D:And this one, I still watch it Yearly.
Speaker B:October movie 10 was the perfect age when I saw Jaws because it scared living out of me for years.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker D:I think I was five or six when I saw Jaws.
Speaker D:And I didn't get into water like bath pools.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I don't remember how.
Speaker C:I must have been older.
Speaker D:It messed me.
Speaker B:We saw it.
Speaker B:We were in Ocean City, Maryland on vacation and I saw it at the beach in a drive in theater.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So there was no swimming the rest of that vacation.
Speaker B:That was.
Speaker B:Don't.
Speaker C:That's really cool.
Speaker C:She lived in Ocean City.
Speaker C:Saw it on a beach.
Speaker B:And then we vacation.
Speaker B:We lived in Maryland, but we went down to Ocean City, Maryland for vacation.
Speaker C:And washed it on the beach.
Speaker C:That's very cool.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:So like.
Speaker C:So I think they have these.
Speaker C:These watch parties where you can like sit on an inner tube out in the water and watch it.
Speaker C:Would you do that?
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:They do that in here, don't they?
Speaker C:Heard about it.
Speaker C:I've never done it.
Speaker C:Just that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I would not do that.
Speaker B:No, absolutely not.
Speaker A:There is no way.
Speaker C:Nope.
Speaker B:Anyway, so this, this is James Bacon.
Speaker B:I think it's a.
Speaker B:I think, like I said, I think it was pure genius when it came out.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:So the domestic.
Speaker B:It was 103 million domestic release and almost as much international.
Speaker B:70 million for a total box office of 173 million on a budget of 14 million.
Speaker B:So this absolutely killed it.
Speaker B:Yeah, this really.
Speaker B:I think it was an innovator as far as.
Speaker B:Like you said, James said, it reinvigorated because at that point slashers had sort of gone out and horror became more sophisticated, you know, rather than just a guy with a knife.
Speaker B:But this really put a twist on that and.
Speaker A:Well, okay.
Speaker A:I do not like the slasher movies at all.
Speaker A:Like, I may have seen Friday the 13th.
Speaker A:I don't know, all those Freddy and Freddy Halloween.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:I saw Halloween on TV where everything's cut out.
Speaker A:The, you know, however, when this came out, I, I actually did like it because I guess it's funny.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think it has enough humor to break the tension or whatever.
Speaker A:But yet the, the one of the best thing is, is you caught.
Speaker A:I mean, you're.
Speaker A:I remember the first time I watched it going, who is the killer?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It was very clever.
Speaker B:And I, And I have to.
Speaker A:There's so many clues throughout that you're sitting there going, oh, he's got to be.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:No, there's.
Speaker B:One of the notes I have repeatedly is red herring.
Speaker B:Red herring, red herring.
Speaker D:When they, when they submitted this to the MPAA, it kept coming back.
Speaker D:NC17 are.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And obviously for scary movies, they're going for PG13.
Speaker D:The producer went to the MPAA and said, okay, watch this as a comedy instead of a horror movie.
Speaker B:Yeah, PG 13, that's funny.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:I did not.
Speaker B:So there is, there is a significant amount of money.
Speaker D:I'm sorry, it is R.
Speaker D:It is R.
Speaker D:But they were going for NC17.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker D:But yeah, it was.
Speaker D:Watch it as a comedy movie.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker D:There you go.
Speaker C:So they didn't have to change any clips, pull anything.
Speaker D:They pulled a bit of blood out.
Speaker B:Of it because there's a lot.
Speaker B:It was, you know.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I thought you're saying just watch like their perspective of viewing as a comedy.
Speaker C:Change the, the rating.
Speaker C:Because that's, that's kind of essentially.
Speaker D:It essentially did because there's so much of a comedic element to this movie that it's enjoyable.
Speaker D:Like Sherry was saying that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I don't know if you could, with as much meta or self reference going on to slashers movies, horror movies.
Speaker B:I don't know if you could pull it off without having a little bit of tongue in cheek comedy.
Speaker B:Because.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:One or two of the references I think are almost parody is one especially.
Speaker B:But without humor, I don't know that you could pull off all this self.
Speaker C:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker C:Because if you try to do it completely serious and especially if you don't only have a few references, then it's just going to come off as like you ripped them off as opposed to trying to pay homage or something.
Speaker D:So, yeah.
Speaker D:I think Matthew Lillard and Jamie Kennedy have a big part in that with the way they perform.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker D:Characters.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And it is almost an, you know, one of the characters, like I can't remember his name.
Speaker B:Is it Randy or whatever the guy.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Jamie Kennedy playing video store guy.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Saying essentially it is, you Know the.
Speaker B:The rules.
Speaker B:I mean, so it essentially is a tip of the hat to everything that has come before, which I thought also was.
Speaker B:Was fair.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, and this is jumping to the very, very end, but even when Matthew at the end is.
Speaker A:Is dying and he's sitting there cracking jokes, well, I'm gonna be such trouble and all this stuff, you know?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, I'm sitting there.
Speaker A:I'm just sitting there laughing, and he's.
Speaker B:My mom is gonna kill me.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I was like, okay.
Speaker A:Anyway, sorry.
Speaker A:I know I jumped ahead, but.
Speaker B:No, that's fine.
Speaker A:So I just thought it was.
Speaker A:I mean.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Especially Matthew.
Speaker A:I thought he was really funny.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:Again, throughout its history of reviews by both audience and critics, fairly, fairly loved it's neck and neck.
Speaker B:Tomato Meter for critics is 79% three and a half stars and above for critics and 79% for fans.
Speaker B:Three and a half stars above.
Speaker B:So generally still very well liked this movie.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D: s, the: Speaker D:And then.
Speaker B: Yeah, there's a: Speaker C:Yeah, it just came.
Speaker C:Just came out, like last year.
Speaker D:Recent one.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker D:That has 23.
Speaker C:Nev Campbell and Courtney Cox.
Speaker C:They brought them back.
Speaker C:That's when.
Speaker D:Yeah, that's the one I saw.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:And, yeah, I was disappointed a little bit, but it was all right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, well, after I watched this, I had to watch 2, 3 and 4.
Speaker B:Yeah, sure.
Speaker D:Bad 3's pretty.
Speaker D:I think 1, 2 and 3 are not bad.
Speaker D:And then it gets into the newer generations, and that's when it kind of lost me, but as it should.
Speaker D:I was in my 20s and 30s by then.
Speaker C:You're no longer, like you were saying earlier, no longer the demographic.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I don't think I saw.
Speaker C:Maybe.
Speaker C:I guess with the original cast, like with Nev Campbell and stuff, I saw.
Speaker C:What is that 1, 2 and 3.
Speaker C:And then maybe the new one, because I don't.
Speaker D:Yeah, I think that's what it is.
Speaker C:Were there four or five?
Speaker A: hat's supposed to come out in: Speaker A:It says it's untitled Scream sequel.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which I don't know how it's.
Speaker D:But I think it was number four that I dropped out on.
Speaker C:Nev Campbell was in four.
Speaker C:Or they made some without, like, her and Courtney Cox.
Speaker C:Or am I thinking of a different series?
Speaker D:They were all.
Speaker C:They were all in them.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:I'm thinking different.
Speaker C:Then I priced all the.
Speaker A:Wait, I think we have 1, 3, 4, right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:We had the bot.
Speaker B:We bought a box.
Speaker A:And I had seen them all before, but I had after watch the first one.
Speaker A:Like I said, I had to sit and watch all of them except for the newest one, which I saw earlier this year, and I didn't like that one.
Speaker D:Oh, that's right.
Speaker D:The newest one was called Scream.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It was almost like a reboot type thing.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker D:25 years after.
Speaker C:I guess soft reboot is what they call them because we're.
Speaker C:It's not like a complete.
Speaker C:Is that right?
Speaker C:Soft reboot.
Speaker C:Yeah, because it has the main characters in it and then from the original, but then you're introducing new, new people.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:I saw some remake.
Speaker D:I saw something that David Arquette was in.
Speaker D:Talks to play Dewey again.
Speaker D:I'm like, how many times does he have to get stabbed.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker D:In movies and be brought back?
Speaker D:I know he's a fan favorite and he's awesome, but.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Come on, if you want him in the next one, stop stabbing him.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:All right, so we break these movies down according to the save the Cat method, which is 15 beats.
Speaker B:And, you know, we break it down.
Speaker B:And of course, I.
Speaker B:We all did that.
Speaker B:And I either forgot or was unaware because I made all my notes, did all my homework, and then I went to the.
Speaker B:To the book, only to find out that it was in the book.
Speaker B:So I could have.
Speaker D:Sweet.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I could have totally cheated on this.
Speaker B:But I'm kind of grateful I didn't because I want to compare how I saw it versus how Catboy saw it, because Catboy.
Speaker D:What was his name?
Speaker C:Blake Snyder.
Speaker B:Save the Cat.
Speaker B:Very quick way to break down a story.
Speaker C:Phil and I've used this so much for our.
Speaker C:I guess our own stories that we have a shorthand and we call them.
Speaker C:I don't know who started, but we started calling him Catboy.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Because there's a picture of.
Speaker C:It's called Save the Cat and there's a picture of the cat on the COVID of the first book.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker D:And it's not the definitive way to break down movies.
Speaker C:No way.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Just a helpful way.
Speaker C:Wake Snyder's way.
Speaker C:And Phil and I really like it.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It was just very quick to get to story.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:If you're having trouble writing a story, it kind of.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What should happen now?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:What should and when?
Speaker C:And I guess one of the reasons we like it so much, Phil, is I guess because we've found that it.
Speaker C:You can apply it to, like.
Speaker C:I guess I wholly agree with him.
Speaker C:There's only like 10 different genres of movies.
Speaker C:Like all every movie ever made can fit into one of these 10 genres that he's kind of come up with.
Speaker B:And there is.
Speaker C:The beats are, are very universal and there's, you know, people will write movies without even.
Speaker C:Never even heard of Blank Snyder and they still hit some of these beats.
Speaker B:Without even realizing there are some differing opinions.
Speaker B:I remember like a long time ago I found a book that was written a long time ago where the guy said there's only like 43 different stories or something.
Speaker B:So there, there is some.
Speaker B:But I think when you start breaking it down that fine.
Speaker B:You are sort of overlapping and the differences are more minor.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:So these 10 genres, I think are the large, broad, broad categories of all stories.
Speaker B:Like, you know, you'd be hard pressed to, I think, come up with something.
Speaker C:And this genre is.
Speaker C:I don't think we said it.
Speaker C:It's Monster in the House is the genre like which almost every horror movie falls and.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Into this.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:I was going to ask.
Speaker D:I know I don't know how deep it is, but is there a horror movie that's not Monster in the House?
Speaker C:Oh, I'd have to.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:I feel like I couldn't think of.
Speaker D:Anyone just throwing that out there as a mind exercise for somebody because it.
Speaker D:I spent a solid five minutes thinking about it.
Speaker B:Well, for a monster in the house, he talks about a monster, you know, the bad thing, the sin which has brought on the monster.
Speaker C:And then there'd be a contained.
Speaker B:And then a house usually which is a.
Speaker C:Like a spaceship or the.
Speaker C:In this case it's the town and.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And of those three, I think the house is the most like, obviously it's a setting.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yes, a house, but it, the house can be anywhere.
Speaker D:Sure.
Speaker D:Like Aliens was a monster in the house and there was on a spaceship.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And the thing was on the.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:And the monster can be anything in terms, you know.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So it's pretty broad.
Speaker D:So generally all horror movies are monster in the house.
Speaker C:I think so.
Speaker C:I mean, there might be some.
Speaker C:I'd have to look.
Speaker B:It's generally because the evil thing or the thing that's terrorizing you, like trouble in our own life is usually generated.
Speaker B:Obviously there's a cause and effect.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So, you know, unless you want to talk about just random evil, you know, the good person.
Speaker B:And all of a sudden I.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But in terms of story.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I'd have to really.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Maybe Kevin in the Woods.
Speaker C:I've seen It.
Speaker C:I think once.
Speaker C:But the, with the, the way that one plays with conventions too.
Speaker C:Like, I don't know if that.
Speaker B:Because they had the people generating those.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Like, it probably still fits.
Speaker C:But I was just thinking.
Speaker C:Because that one's a little bit different.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker D:Sure.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:I don't know.
Speaker D:Mind exercise.
Speaker D:If anybody thinks of anything, leave a comment.
Speaker C:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But again, yeah.
Speaker B:So monster in the house.
Speaker B:A monster.
Speaker B:A sin which caused the monster and a house.
Speaker B:So we'll, we'll break this down how we saw it and then we'll see how Blake Snyder broke it down or whatever.
Speaker B:Because I had trouble with this one.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because right off the bat, I think movies like this sort of defy, like, structure is not like there should be a size structure.
Speaker B:Not necessary.
Speaker B:Because it's basically a bunch of people running around screaming, half naked people.
Speaker B:Because people go to these movies to see people get stabbed.
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker C:Yeah, because it's, it's primal.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Which.
Speaker C:And, And Lake Snyder talks about that, but it's.
Speaker C:I think it's primal.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:It's, you know, oh, if there's some guy with a knife was chasing me, what would I do?
Speaker C:Like it.
Speaker C:It get, you know, it evokes and.
Speaker B:So, so certain reactions.
Speaker C:That's why horror works.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Audiences typically are not interested in the character having, you know, a dark night where he is digging deep down and, and, and rallying and, you know, they want to see the monster and people getting stabbed.
Speaker B:You know, the terror, the.
Speaker B:The fear.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I mean, I don't want to go down like a rabbit hole, but I feel like unless you're going to like a drama.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I would say any other genre, the audience, probably not when they're going to watch a comedy, an action movie, horror movie, whatever.
Speaker C:I don't think they're necessarily thinking, oh, I want to see this guy grow.
Speaker C:I want to see a character arc.
Speaker C:But I think everyone enjoys that.
Speaker C:And that makes them.
Speaker C:To me, the best movies have them.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I mean, they enjoy them and it hits them in the fields and all that, but they don't go into it thinking, well, I want the character.
Speaker B:So let me ask this question.
Speaker B:Like, watching this movie, did you like.
Speaker B:Okay, so you like the characters, but did you really give a.
Speaker B:About any of them?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:You're like, okay, he's the next guy gonna get stabbed.
Speaker B:How's he gonna get stabbed?
Speaker D:You know, that's the, That's a perfect horror movie.
Speaker D:Is unknown actors, and I don't really give a.
Speaker D:About him.
Speaker D:However, going Back to Matthew Lillard and Jamie Kennedy.
Speaker D:You enjoy watching every second throne the screen just because their energy.
Speaker D:But yeah, you're like, oh, well, there.
Speaker B:There always has to be an anchor character.
Speaker B:I think somebody has to be like Halloween and Jamie Lee Curtis.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So you, you know, you're rooting for her to stop this thing.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You don't give a.
Speaker B:I, I, I couldn't care about any of the other characters, you know, I mean, yeah, in.
Speaker C:Horror, particularly for me, like, I care, I find myself, I care the least amount compared to like the other genres for whatever reason.
Speaker C:But like Ellen Ripley in Alien, I cared about her more than I did, you know, Sidney Prescott and Jaws.
Speaker C:I care more about Brody.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:And I think those are, they're probably, those have arcs, right?
Speaker C:And they're, they have the rest of that stuff, but most horror movies don't.
Speaker C:And I'm not like knocking them.
Speaker C:That's just kind of the way most action movies don't have it either, you know.
Speaker B:But yeah.
Speaker A:Well, can I say this though?
Speaker A:It's not that I cared about the character anything, but I was totally shocked because to, if I remember correctly, Drew Barrymore was one of the people they had in the trailer for the, the movie.
Speaker A:And to me, I was shocked.
Speaker A:I thought she was gonna, this is, she was immediately.
Speaker B:This is my first note.
Speaker B:They, they, they pull what I call a Psycho.
Speaker C:Oh, for sure.
Speaker D:Exactly.
Speaker C:What?
Speaker C:Janet Lee, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, Janet Lee.
Speaker B:Hitchcock totally floored the audience because Janet Lee, obviously big actress at the time, right?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And then you get a yeah.
Speaker B:And she dies halfway through.
Speaker B:And all of a sudden you're like, what?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's how I was.
Speaker A:I'm like, yeah.
Speaker A:I thought she was the star of the movie.
Speaker D:She was in the trailer.
Speaker D:She's on the poster.
Speaker C:Her face is the biggest on the poster.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so I think that's very cool.
Speaker B:That's part of the, especially when it came out and I think it as a, as a study and as a homage to all that came before.
Speaker B:I think it, it still holds up because that's got to be like, there's no way that Wes Craven or Kevin Williamson, he wrote it, but there's no way they put Drew Barrymore in the beginning like that major star and kill her and not think Psycho.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker C:That's interesting.
Speaker C:Like, I just think about, back to our previous conversation about giving a shit, Right.
Speaker C:Like, I cared more about Drew Barrymore than I did.
Speaker B:Because you latch on immediately.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C: Well, then it's like a: Speaker C:Like and that was still.
Speaker C:That's one thing that held up still to this day to me.
Speaker C:Like when we watched, I was like, oh, wow.
Speaker C:This opening is still like, yeah.
Speaker D:That's why one of my rules for a good horror movie is unknown actors because of.
Speaker C:You think we latched on because it's Drew Barrymore.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Specifically you have all that baggage of seeing Drew Barrymore in all these different movies and then when you see her, she's like, oh yeah.
Speaker D:And then she's gone.
Speaker D:And then you're stuck with people you don't know, you don't care about and then you're settling in for the act.
Speaker C:I didn't think about that.
Speaker C:Well, Drew Barrymore is a dead now who else do we got in this.
Speaker C:I don't even know these people.
Speaker C:That's interesting about that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:That's what makes a good horror movie is.
Speaker C:Yeah, you're right to anybody.
Speaker B:Well and it's.
Speaker B:And whether we as an audience even realize it, we.
Speaker B:We subconsciously latch on.
Speaker B:Okay, that's the guy that is going to be the one I need to watch.
Speaker B:Or that's the for sure.
Speaker C:You know, you do that in every movie.
Speaker C:That's one thing not to go down another rabbit hole.
Speaker C:But that's one thing that I liked about Joker with Joaquin Phoenix a lot was there were none of those characters.
Speaker C:Like you're forced to latch on to him and he's, you know, way mentally disturbed.
Speaker C:And like I really like that movie because of that.
Speaker C:Because you're all right, two hours.
Speaker C:You're going to spend the whole movie with this guy.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And y is not even a factor.
Speaker B:Like the audience doesn't have you.
Speaker B:You will latch on to the guy that you.
Speaker B:You start to feel is the.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:You like the most.
Speaker C:Or you genify in some way.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it doesn't necessarily have to be likable, you know.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That was my first.
Speaker B:I have it down as an extended prologue.
Speaker B:Pulls a psycho in a sense that a big star you think is the actor of the film is killed meta in the sense that it's a slasher movie.
Speaker B:Talking about slasher movies.
Speaker B:Because the whole conversation, Many, many conversations in this movie make reference to slasher movies.
Speaker B:And I think, well, she lives or.
Speaker C:Lives and dies by like trivia.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Play a game movie trivia.
Speaker C:Do you like scary movies?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So very self regiment.
Speaker B:Now I have that as not necessarily the opening image because with the opening image it's usually the main character or hero before shot before shot of.
Speaker B:And then the closing image is how they've changed at the end.
Speaker B:And obviously, Drew Maryborough does not make it to the end.
Speaker C:She has no after.
Speaker C:After shots.
Speaker B:I don't see that as an opening image.
Speaker C:Agreed.
Speaker B:Blake Snyder has that as his opening image.
Speaker B:A ringing phone, an isolated house.
Speaker B:He says, I buxom Drew Barrymore, which is absolutely true.
Speaker B:Like this, he says, like the starting point of many a teen horror movie, this image is ripe with cliches.
Speaker B:But I don't think that qualifies as an opening image.
Speaker B:Opening image of the film, sure.
Speaker B:But every movie has an opening.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, this is his rules and his stuff.
Speaker C:And I hate to disagree with him, but, you know, I do.
Speaker C:I'm with you.
Speaker C:Like, it should be Nev.
Speaker C:If Neve Campbell's the main star, it's her opening image.
Speaker B:So I see that as an extended prologue to set up the tone, maybe call it.
Speaker B:Because the murder is referenced later when they're sitting around talking.
Speaker B:So I think it's set up, but I don't think it's an opening image.
Speaker B:I have as the opening image.
Speaker B:It's a similar situation.
Speaker B:Sidney alone, boyfriend Billy sneaks into the room.
Speaker B:Dad investigates.
Speaker B:I could have.
Speaker B:For.
Speaker B:I could have sworn I heard screaming.
Speaker B:They'll even say scream or screaming several times throughout the movie.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker C:Nice.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:At the end, Stu says, it's a scream, baby.
Speaker B:When he reveals.
Speaker B:Is that, you know, the kidnapped father or whatever.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So this, I think, is her opening image.
Speaker B:She's.
Speaker B:She is innocent.
Speaker B:She hasn't had sex with Billy.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Wanting to maintain a PG relationship.
Speaker C:And he's wanting to take it to R.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Which I thought was cool.
Speaker C:I like the.
Speaker C:The use of the.
Speaker C:The language in the movie ratings.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:We says girls with morals and standards on top of the clothes stuff your underwear rule, you know, and.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And later we'll learn that that is one of the rules.
Speaker B:Rules of.
Speaker B:Of horror movies, you know, no sex.
Speaker C:And you have sex, you die.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker B:And so he is trying to have, you know, sex with her.
Speaker B:And if you haven't seen it by now, spoiler.
Speaker B:I mean, he is one of the killers.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So he is trying.
Speaker B:We'll get to this.
Speaker B:But I think he is trying to have sex with her so that he can then kill her.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, I think that's part of his possibly.
Speaker C:Well, I mean.
Speaker C:I mean, I hadn't thought about it, but, like, why wouldn't you just kill her before then if it's not, you know, like.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Well, that's not the goal then.
Speaker C:You kill her before.
Speaker C:Right, right.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So that was the thing.
Speaker B:When I couldn't.
Speaker B:When I couldn't figure out a structure for this movie from Nev Campbell's point of view, who is held out as the main hero character or whatever.
Speaker B:I started.
Speaker B:I said, okay, well, what if this was Billy's story?
Speaker B:And then it sort of lines up like, Billy's story is much more structured than any other story in this movie because it starts motivation and it starts way before the movie begins.
Speaker B:His catalyst.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:His setup is he's got a good family.
Speaker B:His catalyst is Sydney's mother sleeps with his dad and his mother leaves and he feels abandoned.
Speaker B:And his break into two is he kills Sydney's mother.
Speaker B:Well, that all happens off screen.
Speaker B:So by the time we see Billy, he's already into his fun and games.
Speaker B:He's whacking people, man.
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:So his story.
Speaker B:And I thought that could work.
Speaker C:I guess that's true for every serial killer.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I mean that you just said, like, they're.
Speaker C:They're.
Speaker C:They're always into the fun and games.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And a good writer, like.
Speaker B:Okay, so every.
Speaker B:Every character is the hero of their own story.
Speaker B:The villain is the hero of his own story.
Speaker C:Correct.
Speaker B:But we are going along with the good guy.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Most of the time.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker C:But he saved the cat or whatever.
Speaker C:He did.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So if.
Speaker B:If the character is well written, he's going to have all his beats, too.
Speaker B:And I think.
Speaker B:I think he does some of them.
Speaker B:And I think his story is actually more solid than any other character in the movie because everybody else is basically running around screaming and scream, whatever.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker C:Anyway, so yeah, screaming in a movie called Scream.
Speaker C:Ridiculous.
Speaker B:Just absolutely crazy.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So, yeah, so I think Catboy goes off rails a little bit with this opening image, because it doesn't.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:We'll get to see what his closing image is, because it has to be something else.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Well, along with his opening image of that with Drew Barrymore.
Speaker A:Can I just say, who has open windows like that where you can see inside the house?
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:That always creeps me out.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know that.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:She's on the phone and he's on the patio.
Speaker C:Like, where you can see the patio.
Speaker C:Like, there's like, wall, floor to ceiling windows.
Speaker B:Y.
Speaker A:It's like.
Speaker B:Well, it's.
Speaker D:It's.
Speaker C:The guy by the pool.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I mean, that's why they're there.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:I mean, realistic.
Speaker C:I mean, is that what you're going to say?
Speaker B:Like, I think.
Speaker B:Yes, I would.
Speaker C:So we See the boyfriend tied up in the chair by the.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And it's why cops and firemen in TV shows don't wear helmets when they're storming a building because you can't see the star's face.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So at this point is for camera shots.
Speaker B:You know, these long shots through windows and.
Speaker A:Okay, I can understand.
Speaker A:I grew up out in.
Speaker A:In the country, and I guess you feel like in the country you don't have to worry about people looking in.
Speaker A:But the very fact that he says that he's watching her and I'm sitting there going, your windows are wide open.
Speaker A:So I don't know.
Speaker A:I just wanted to make that note.
Speaker C:I hadn't thought about it.
Speaker C:That's because.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like, I don't like the.
Speaker C:The blinds being open at night.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker C:Because if the lights are on, it's dark outside.
Speaker C:You can see into the house very easily.
Speaker C:Not.
Speaker C:Not that I'm worried someone's going to come get me.
Speaker C:It just mentally messing with me.
Speaker C:So, like, as it gets dark, I close the blind.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Because it's like you can't see outside when it's dark out there and they.
Speaker C:Can see in because you have lights on.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:And I'm a curmudgeon.
Speaker B:I close all the windows, lock all the doors.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Hide in my cave.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:I just wanted to make that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:No, And I think I'm sort of glancing at his.
Speaker B:At his notes here.
Speaker B:I think Snyder holds this up as a monster in the house example, maybe because it was so popular probably around the time he was writing this book.
Speaker B:But I think he is having to reach a little bit, too, to structure this because I don't think it is well structured in terms of the beats or whatever.
Speaker B:All right, so any.
Speaker B:Any other thoughts on opening image?
Speaker B:I think it does set a good tone with that extended prologue, but I don't think it serves as an opening image of a before picture of the hero, which I think is at this.
Speaker C:It's opening image, obviously, for the movie in the town and kind of set up on what's going on.
Speaker C:But not.
Speaker C:Not for her.
Speaker B:Not for her.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Her.
Speaker B:Her opening image is Innocent Virgin.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I don't want to.
Speaker B:By the end, she will not be that.
Speaker B:Anyway, the setup.
Speaker B:Murder in small town Woodsboro, California.
Speaker B:Casey and Steve, I guess, were the two.
Speaker B:Casey was Drew Barrymore and Steve was the boyfriend.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Hit the movie Splatter movie killed even worse than.
Speaker B:And then, you know, so there's this.
Speaker B:There is reference to the backstory sort of held up as mystery.
Speaker B:And we find out a little bit later, high school kids.
Speaker B:You know, obviously you're gonna have your standard stock characters which are always high school kids in this kind of stuff.
Speaker B:Sydney, the daughter of.
Speaker B:So there's all these veiled references to something in the past that this is similar to.
Speaker D:Yeah, that's one of the things that bothered me.
Speaker D:Cuz the.
Speaker D:The police were interrogating.
Speaker D:Would they say students, teachers and janitors.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Which was a throwback to I think Nightmare on Elm Street.
Speaker B:Yeah, probably.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Cuz Wes Craven is the.
Speaker C:Does a cameo as the janitor.
Speaker C:But he looks.
Speaker C:But he looks like Freddy.
Speaker B:And he's called Freddy.
Speaker C:He's called Freddy.
Speaker B:I thought that at that point I was like, okay, so the janitor who.
Speaker D:Looks like that and dress.
Speaker D:Obviously they're interviewing the janitor.
Speaker C:Right, but.
Speaker C:Right, right.
Speaker C:And the guy that, you know, gave him the job, like what are you doing?
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:And then they, and then they say that the, you know, Sidney Prescott daughter of.
Speaker D:It's like, okay, but everybody in that room knows what the hell happened one year ago with her mom.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:So that was just exposition that.
Speaker C:Oh, I see what you're talking about.
Speaker C:For the audience.
Speaker C:But the characters knew.
Speaker C:Yeah, I hate when that happens.
Speaker C:I mean it happens in movies, but.
Speaker C:Yeah, try to.
Speaker C:It always bugs you.
Speaker D:Yeah, it's like.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Was one.
Speaker C:You're only saying that for my benefit as the audience.
Speaker C:You guys wouldn't be having this conversation or you would have a completely different type of conversation because you all know the information.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:That's frustrating.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So there's going to be lots of red herrings in this movie.
Speaker B:You know, false leads.
Speaker B:Which when it first came out and you did.
Speaker B:And I didn't know I was.
Speaker B:I was totally on board with that.
Speaker B:You know, I thought that was done very well.
Speaker B:I wrote my note.
Speaker B:Here is the principle seems touchy.
Speaker B:There is this scene with the principal, Henry Winkler.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I couldn't think of his name.
Speaker B:Where he.
Speaker B:Where he sort of.
Speaker B:He's talking to one of the girls and he sort of touches her.
Speaker B:And I thought, okay, that's.
Speaker B:He's a little creepy there.
Speaker B:And so you.
Speaker B:But I.
Speaker B:I feel like that was done to sort of.
Speaker B:Because you're going to get a lot of misdirection.
Speaker B:And I think that's a misdirection.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:To think, okay, well this is this the guy.
Speaker B:Is this.
Speaker D:Even when he was threatening the students a little bit later who were running through the halls with the masks on, he was threatening him with scissors.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker B:The principal with the scissors.
Speaker B:Red herring.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, which I.
Speaker B:Which I thought was done well, now it works one time, second viewing.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But I.
Speaker B:But I thought.
Speaker B:But when it first came out, I think that was the appeal.
Speaker B:Everybody was like, oh, you got to see this.
Speaker B:You know, And I thought it was done well, the misdirection.
Speaker C:I just thought that the Fonz, you know, became a principle later in life.
Speaker C:He could do what he wanted, you know?
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, even to the point you're talking about misdirection when they're in the bathroom and you see the shoes come down.
Speaker A:Well, then later on, Dewey's talking to the police, or sheriff, whoever it is.
Speaker A:He's got the same.
Speaker A:They start off the shot with his shoes.
Speaker D:I was thinking at the end of the movie, because I've seen this movie 20 plus times.
Speaker D:I was like, man, there must be a store around there that specializes in those boots.
Speaker D:And everybody has those boots.
Speaker B:One of my notes is, sheriff has same boots as Ghostface.
Speaker B:Red hair, you know, so.
Speaker B:Yeah, nice.
Speaker B:Yes, very.
Speaker B:A lot of, like.
Speaker B:Like you said, there's.
Speaker B:This is all intentional.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:Billy.
Speaker B:Billy.
Speaker B:Sidney, Stu, Tatum, and Randy are discussing the murders.
Speaker B:Sidney's mother is absent.
Speaker B:The setup mystery is deja vu all over again.
Speaker C:So there's absent, father's absent.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I have.
Speaker B:Sydney's mother is absent.
Speaker B:The setup mystery.
Speaker A:Like one of the mothers.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Dead.
Speaker A:The father.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker B:But we don't know.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I don't think we know that at that point.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:All right.
Speaker C:I was just making sure that.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Because the father does go absent later on, so.
Speaker B:But they keep referencing.
Speaker D:Oh, that's right.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:They keep referencing something with the mother, but you don't know that it's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Murder.
Speaker B:Right, Right.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:We've seen so many times.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I didn't catch it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:That's how it was the first time.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:This is still set up.
Speaker B:With her dad out of town, Sydney makes arrangements for Tatum to stay with her for the weekend.
Speaker B:All right, and then.
Speaker B:And then reporter Gail Weathers shows up and she gives us this info dump, which is not done terribly.
Speaker B:I mean, it wasn't a bad way to do it.
Speaker B:Gives us backstory on Sydney and her mother with cotton and all of that.
Speaker A:Did you notice who another one of the reporters was?
Speaker C:Yeah, I did.
Speaker A:Linda Blair.
Speaker C:Oh, no, I did not notice that.
Speaker C:Thought you're talking about the other one.
Speaker B:Then the Blair from, like, Terminator or something?
Speaker C:No, from The Exorcist.
Speaker C:Exorcist.
Speaker B:Oh, oh, oh, oh, wouldn't she?
Speaker B:Who was.
Speaker C:You're thinking maybe Linda Hamilton?
Speaker B:Hamilton.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Linda Blair.
Speaker D:I found that out last night upon my last viewing of this.
Speaker D:My girlfriend was like, oh, that's, that's her.
Speaker D:I'm like, huh?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I found it out because this catboy talks about it in his beats.
Speaker C:Like, once I read the.
Speaker C:His beats after, after watching the movie, I realized, oh, I completely missed her.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I did not.
Speaker A:I, I just had to throw that in because she was one of the first reporters, I think, that showed up.
Speaker C:But her.
Speaker C:What?
Speaker C:I thought you were gonna say Sherry is the, the cameraman that's with Gail.
Speaker C:The guy.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:He's.
Speaker C:I don't remember his name, but he was, he's been in a lot of stuff with him.
Speaker C:The elephant.
Speaker C:He was the.
Speaker C:And Justified.
Speaker C:He was the.
Speaker A:I knew he looked.
Speaker C:He was the guy that takes some, Takes the kind of the office hostage.
Speaker C:And he kept.
Speaker C:Keeps calling Raylan shooter, and Raylan ends up getting him some spicy chicken.
Speaker A:Oh, I meant to look him up because I was like, he looks.
Speaker C:So they were in Deadwood together and they're also in Mandalorian together as well.
Speaker D:I remember.
Speaker B:Oh, oh, oh, yes.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I, I, I was thinking of the reporter in the second shooter.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because I'm like, yeah, but the one.
Speaker A:Who gets his throat.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:In the van.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:He gets killed in the van.
Speaker B:He's like, later on, it's a black guy.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And I'm sitting here thinking, black guy.
Speaker B:But that's not.
Speaker A:No, that's in the, the second.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:No, I know who you're talking about.
Speaker D:He was in something about Mary as the brother.
Speaker A:That's where I.
Speaker B:Go back and look at that.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Nice.
Speaker C:That was him.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Very good character actor.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, I like.
Speaker C:He's looked up his name and I did not.
Speaker C:I apologize.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, no, that's fine.
Speaker B:Sidney's mother was found raped and murdered just one year ago.
Speaker B:Cotton revealed as the killer.
Speaker B:Based on testimony from Sydney.
Speaker B:Gail Weathers has a theory that Sidney got it wrong.
Speaker B:This is what I have as a setup.
Speaker B:And then I have a catalyst.
Speaker B:This is what Catboy has as a setup.
Speaker B:The sin that Drew commits is dying is denying she has a boyfriend so she can flirt with her mystery collar.
Speaker B:That's the sin of this movie.
Speaker B:Apparently, the punishment is death.
Speaker B:Both her jock boyfriend and Drew are sliced up and left for dead.
Speaker B:Drew's parents find her.
Speaker B:This 12 minute sequence and the Table for what?
Speaker B:Set the table for what follows.
Speaker B:We meet Sidney, who's a virgin.
Speaker B:Neve Campbell, her single dad, is getting the murder of Sidney's mom over one year ago.
Speaker B:She's getting over it.
Speaker B:She's joined by Billy the Killer, but for now, he's just James Dean, like, boyfriend who wants to take the relationship to BG Nutter.
Speaker B:So I don't know that that's okay because the sin is not Drew Barrymore flirting with.
Speaker B:That's not the cause of the monster.
Speaker B:So Catboy, I think, must have had a late press date for this book and was rushing, because I don't.
Speaker B:I totally disagree with that.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:It seems like the sin, the ultimate sin, was just sex originally with Billy's mother.
Speaker C:And that's what I was gonna say.
Speaker C:I mean, the learning, pretending you don't have a boyfriend or.
Speaker C:Or denying you have a boyfriend so you can flirt with somebody else.
Speaker C:I mean, that's all flirting, you know, can lead to sex.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So I guess I feel like maybe that's what he's getting at, like, because all these, you know, like, we talk about the teen horror movies.
Speaker C:Once you have sex, you die, right?
Speaker B:Well, yeah.
Speaker C:Even the.
Speaker C:The backstory with Billy.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:About his it was an affair thing.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Yeah, no, he was abandoned where Sidney was not abandoned and raised by, you know.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:No, the.
Speaker B:The sin brings the monster, and the sin that brought this monster was adultery and the breakup, you know, home record.
Speaker C:Lying about a boyfriend so you can flirt with somebody else.
Speaker C:That's under the same umbrella.
Speaker C:It was adultery, I think, is what he's maybe getting at.
Speaker C:You know what I mean?
Speaker C:Again, it's the wrong character.
Speaker C:It's not a symptom of story.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, that's fine.
Speaker C:I think the killer's calling mention.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So to me, the catalyst I have is the killer calling Sidney.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's her callous.
Speaker B:That's exactly what I have.
Speaker B:Catalyst Ghostface call Sydney.
Speaker B:Sydney attacked.
Speaker C:And the whole reason is Billy calling her.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Because of the backstory.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So that.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:And so she doesn't know what's going on at the time, but yeah.
Speaker C:So reason she's targeted.
Speaker B:This is why Billy has the stronger story.
Speaker B:He's got this plan and he's putting it in motion.
Speaker C:Right, Right.
Speaker B:He's crossed into the second act.
Speaker B:So when we meet Billy, he's in his second act.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And Nev, the hero is.
Speaker B:Is a fun and game at this point, but most, like I said, basically, the first act of his story takes place off camera, you know, in terms of the structure or whatever.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:His.
Speaker D:His first act was one year ago.
Speaker D:Yeah, essentially.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So anyway.
Speaker D:Well, no, because it comes out that Billy killed Sydney's mother, right?
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker D:So that happened a year ago.
Speaker D:So his plan has been in place over a year.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's the anniversary of the mother's death, so I think.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:That was one of the, like, his breaking.
Speaker C:She's probably killing her.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Killing the mom.
Speaker C:Like, the callous was the.
Speaker C:The adultery and then being abandoned.
Speaker B:Breaking the two is, I'm gonna do something.
Speaker B:I'm gonna kill the mother.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And I guess that didn't solve his.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Well, just like Batman, for some reason, you know, solves a crime or stops crime like that.
Speaker C:It's not over.
Speaker C:Like, he keeps going, and his fun and games is stopping all the crimes.
Speaker B:Nev is still walking around.
Speaker B:I mean, so he's her boyfriend.
Speaker B:Not out of any kind of devotion, but as maneuvering her into position to.
Speaker C:Toy with her and mess with her.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So Catboy has the catalyst.
Speaker B:Nevin, Pal.
Speaker B:They're the learn of the murder the night before.
Speaker B:And Gail Withers is on hand, Deputy Dewey.
Speaker B:The school is shocked by Drew.
Speaker B:So I guess he has the death as the catalyst, which I guess I could see.
Speaker B:But in terms of Nev's story, if she's the hero, it's got to be because at this point, someone's been murdered.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:But that doesn't necessarily mean that all their lives are in danger.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like, if it was her best friend or something, then maybe that's different.
Speaker C:My best.
Speaker C:Because the catalyst is typically something happens to the hero.
Speaker C:Something's taken from the hero that phone calls.
Speaker C:What happens?
Speaker C:Like the.
Speaker C:The getting killed is not her friend.
Speaker C:If it had been the Rose McAllen.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Character.
Speaker D:She arrives to the school, finds out about the murders.
Speaker D:She was Drew Barrymore's character.
Speaker D:Casey was Sydney's classmate.
Speaker D:They sat right next to each other.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker D:So that does mess with her.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker D:Casey was the ex girlfriend of God, like Stu's character.
Speaker B:Oh, really?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:When they're by the fountain, they're talking about that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:Didn't you date her?
Speaker D:Yeah, for like, a minute.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And if I was.
Speaker D:What's her name?
Speaker D:Rose McGowan's character?
Speaker D:I don't know her name.
Speaker D:Tatum.
Speaker B:Tatum.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:If I was Tatum, I'd have been like, wait a minute.
Speaker D:My boyfriend's ex girlfriend just got brutally murdered?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, yeah.
Speaker D:You know.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker D:Alarm bell.
Speaker D:Maybe one or two.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:Except that, you know, her job is to wear that tight half shirt.
Speaker D:You know that she does.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:I remember having such a crush on her when I was.
Speaker B:No, no, she's.
Speaker D:And now I look at.
Speaker D:I mean, beautiful woman, just not my style now.
Speaker B:Well, this is not that kind of podcast where I'd say a lot more, you know.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:The buxom blonde.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:Fodder for stabbing.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:I did forget some of that, but still, like, we didn't see that.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Part of the setup.
Speaker C:And, like, if this was gonna be.
Speaker C:The setup would need to be show how close good friends they were.
Speaker C:Show them sitting next to each other.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Which ruins the whole.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:The brilliant prologue.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:Or have.
Speaker C:Have put Nev in the prologue and she runs away or some shit.
Speaker C:You know what I mean?
Speaker C:And escapes.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, I think the phone call is more powerful than the.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:She was in a classmate, you know.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Because she goes home after that day of school.
Speaker D:Goes home, and then that's when she gets the actual.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So the.
Speaker B:So there is a debate, like, is Billy.
Speaker B:Who is the killer?
Speaker B:You know, horror movies.
Speaker B:So there is a debate section.
Speaker B:He's got all kinds of things.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:The video store clerk and all them.
Speaker B:So I think he.
Speaker B:He gets that.
Speaker B:You know, obviously, because they are sitting around debating things or whatever.
Speaker B:Anyway, so I'll.
Speaker B:I'll.
Speaker C:Yeah, I guess I had.
Speaker C:Part of the bait is like, you know, who could she trust?
Speaker C:Who is the actual killer?
Speaker C:And then it starts to come, you know, she start, like, is.
Speaker C:Is Cotton innocent, actually?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like, is it.
Speaker C:Who is the real killer of her mom?
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Is there.
Speaker C:Is her mom's killer still out there?
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Because at some point she'll start to doubt.
Speaker C:Yeah, I think.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:You saw someone leaving that with Cotton's coat and planted it.
Speaker D:And.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:There's a lot of doubt placed in her mind.
Speaker D:So it's.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:The real killer is still out there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:We already talked about the principle of the scissors.
Speaker B:There's a scene.
Speaker B:So they're.
Speaker B:Like I said, there's a lot of red herrings.
Speaker B:Billy is arrested.
Speaker B:He shows up, and they.
Speaker B:And Dewey finds the suit, and Billy is.
Speaker B:Is taken in for questioning and eventually arrested.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Because that's the initial phone call where Sydney finally talks to the killer.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:And busts out of the closet.
Speaker D:Well, can you see me?
Speaker D:What am I doing?
Speaker D:She's picking her nose.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:Doubting that it's not just.
Speaker D:It's just a prank and all that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:She thinks it's Jamie Kennedy or Randy.
Speaker D:Randy, you gave yourself away.
Speaker D:Blah, blah, blah.
Speaker D:And then the killer busts out of the closet, chases her around.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:Disappears.
Speaker D:And then we have.
Speaker B:And he shows up, you know, and.
Speaker D:Dewey with the costume.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so Billy's arrested and this will cause Nev to debate, you know, Billy, she, at this point, she's made a decision.
Speaker B:Billy is the killer.
Speaker B:But while Billy's in jail, the killer calls somebody.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:Calls Tatum's house.
Speaker B:Calls Tatum's house.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker D:After the.
Speaker D:After Sydney punches Gail.
Speaker C:Boom.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker D:Went down.
Speaker D:I'll send you a copy.
Speaker D:Boom.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:Super.
Speaker B:Here's where we see.
Speaker B:Like I said, I have an almost parody.
Speaker B:We see Jenner named Fred dressed like Freddy Krueger.
Speaker B:I didn't know.
Speaker B:I didn't know that was Wes Craven or whatever.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Now, we were initially led to believe that the principal might possibly could be the guy.
Speaker B:But that is quickly taken off the table as the principal is killed.
Speaker D:Well, they called into.
Speaker D:After all the, the pranks and everything.
Speaker D:And Sydney's chased out of the bathroom.
Speaker D:Yes, they called.
Speaker D:Not quarantine, but curfew.
Speaker D:Curfew.
Speaker D:Yeah, they called curfew.
Speaker D:So everybody's gone home.
Speaker D:The principal's there alone.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And gets a.
Speaker D:Knocks on the door and sees his janitor Fred mopping.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:More debate as to the killer.
Speaker B:Randy is, Randy is convinced as Billy, he actually has it right, you know?
Speaker B:Well, but he has it right because he's jealous of Randy and Nev.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like he.
Speaker B:Doesn't he have a thing for.
Speaker D:Oh, yeah.
Speaker D:For Sydney.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So he, I think he hates Billy.
Speaker B:Not because he thinks he's.
Speaker B:He wants him to be the killer to get him out of the picture.
Speaker B:I think repeatedly, the father is held out as a suspect because they cannot locate him and eventually find that he is not where he said he was going to be.
Speaker B:And we will find out later why or whatever.
Speaker B:Again, we see the sheriff has the same boots as Ghostface that we saw in the bathroom.
Speaker B:There are some references here to other movies.
Speaker B:Prom Night and the Town that Dreaded Sundown, which I have not seen.
Speaker B:But they, they, they make reference to both of those.
Speaker B:And that is what I have, is the first act.
Speaker B:And, and very tentatively so, because like I said, I could not necessarily nail down hard beats.
Speaker B:He has, he says at the 25 minute mark, the mysterious caller wakes Nev, drawing her into an upside down world of act two.
Speaker C:That's his breaking into two.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Nev does what she says.
Speaker B:Only dumb girls in these movies do run up the stairs instead of sprinting out the front door.
Speaker B:Nev is saved by Skeet, who props, pops open her window, claiming he heard the ruckus.
Speaker B:Never fear, Deputy Dewey arrives to arrest him.
Speaker B:So that's the break into two, and.
Speaker C:Dewey arrest him based off, like, Evan.
Speaker C:I'm trying to remember evidence that he found because he found the stuff.
Speaker C:Or was it like, did Sidney go, no, no, no, you need to arrest him.
Speaker C:Like, did she push for Skeet to be arrested?
Speaker B:I think she suspects strongly.
Speaker B:And she.
Speaker A:He drops his cell phone and he's like, yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Because later the phone calls are being made.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:But later we find out that the call.
Speaker B:The phone is traced to her father.
Speaker A:Well, they do.
Speaker A:They.
Speaker A:They copied.
Speaker A:It's not his father, his phone, but they copied it somehow.
Speaker A:But apparently, back then, did a lot of people not carry cell phones?
Speaker C:Probably they call it a cellular phone.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's always a big deal.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And because the sheriff says, why do you have a.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And of course, nowadays it's like, why do you not have a phone?
Speaker B:All these kids would not be debating the killer.
Speaker B:They'd all be sure.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:When Stacey and I were watching it, like, I thought she'd, like, ruined the whole thing because we couldn't remember.
Speaker C:And so, like, as before, like, the phone falls out.
Speaker C:Like when I think when the killer was chasing her to the house, like, wait a minute.
Speaker C:How's this guy calling her?
Speaker C:Because all these.
Speaker C:Up to this point, all the calls are on the landline, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And we're like, okay, well, they had two lines in the house, and that means God would have to be in the house.
Speaker C:I was like, shit, did you just ruin Scream?
Speaker C:And they made five of these freaking things.
Speaker C:It was just.
Speaker C:We literally couldn't remember.
Speaker C:And then when he.
Speaker C:Stu.
Speaker C:Shows up and the phone falls out, I'm like.
Speaker C:Because I was thinking.
Speaker C:Because there had been no cell phones in the movie up to this point, was this before cell phones, the cell phone falls out?
Speaker C:I'm like, oh, okay, cool.
Speaker C:All right.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's your rune Scream, which was going to be hilarious to me.
Speaker D:I still have to recall that.
Speaker D:I'm remembering this movie after years and years of watching it.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker D:Years and years and years and watching it.
Speaker D:20 plus years of multiple viewings.
Speaker D:I.
Speaker D:Yeah, I never thought about that.
Speaker D:Oh, yeah.
Speaker D:Cell phones, they weren't a thing.
Speaker B:Cell phones really made it hard on writers because so many problems can be solved by just a cell phone.
Speaker B:So you always, like, in these movies, you always have to.
Speaker B:There's Always an obligatory scene now.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, why the cell phone?
Speaker B:I get no bars.
Speaker B:Always.
Speaker B:I got no bars.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:Yeah, you have to have that so that they couldn't get out of it.
Speaker B:Because if not, you will solve this in five minutes.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:Just like three, Mama from the train.
Speaker A:He keeps calling from a.
Speaker A:A phone booth.
Speaker A:Danny DeVito keeps calling from phone booths.
Speaker A:And I'm like, oh, they're not there anymore.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, but yeah, right.
Speaker A:But yeah, when you.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker A:He did say cellular, and I.
Speaker A:I kind of giggled every time they would say cellular phone.
Speaker B:No, I think, like, I always just say smartphone.
Speaker B:I don't even know.
Speaker B:Yeah, nobody says Celia.
Speaker B:Maybe they'll say cell phone, but just.
Speaker C:Where's my phone?
Speaker B:Yeah, now it's just, where's my phone?
Speaker B:I don't even know that.
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker B:Yeah, because I don't even think we.
Speaker B:We don't even have our landline hooked up, do we?
Speaker A:We have.
Speaker A:I know we have our phones hooked up, but not the landline.
Speaker C:Don't have a landline.
Speaker C:Don't have a phone.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's all.
Speaker A:Yeah, we do have a home phone, but it's through the magic jack.
Speaker B:It's a portable.
Speaker B:It rings to my cell phone because.
Speaker C:Anyway, we'll be in the living room and text Lathe on his phone who's in his bedroom.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's ridiculous.
Speaker A:Yeah, we do that all the time.
Speaker A:I'm in here texting him.
Speaker B:Who wants to shout across the room?
Speaker D:That's just rude.
Speaker C:It was all of that to say that.
Speaker C:I guess his break into is even weird, too.
Speaker C:And I hate to dash on Catboy, but.
Speaker C:Because the break into two is the character deciding something after the debate.
Speaker C:Yes, something happens.
Speaker C:You debate about what am I going to do about it.
Speaker C:You make a decision to do it.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Her getting a phone call, that's something happening to her.
Speaker C:That's passive.
Speaker C:That's not her taking action.
Speaker C:Yes, she's got a run and shit, but like that still.
Speaker C:That's reacting to what happens.
Speaker C:Yes, like, that's what I was thinking.
Speaker C:And if she made the decision, oh, shit, I think my boyfriend's a killer, arrest him then.
Speaker C:At least that's some sort of.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, that was my thing, I don't think.
Speaker B:I don't think there's really a proactive character.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:They're all just running around and screaming.
Speaker B:It's all react, react, react, Which a strong character at some point has to turn the tables or start to.
Speaker B:And I don't know that that ever really happens.
Speaker B:And in slasher movies, that's not necessarily a prerequisite, you know.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Then you have to make it.
Speaker C:I mean.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Until the very end, you know, make.
Speaker C:The main character makes a decision to act twice in a real.
Speaker C:Real.
Speaker C:In a well structured movie.
Speaker C:Then they break into two and then the break into three.
Speaker B:Right, Right.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:So I have to break into two.
Speaker B:As preparations are made to protect themselves.
Speaker B:So they're all getting together, having a party.
Speaker B:Tatum is going to stay with Nev.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:So protect themselves by getting drunk.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:To stay together.
Speaker C:Buying the house or anything.
Speaker C:Oh, just staying together.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like fortifying the house would be one thing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because.
Speaker B:Because I guess Randy gives them the.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:The breakdown.
Speaker C:I don't know that anyone takes it seriously, but he gives them the.
Speaker C:The rules.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:No, they're watching a horror movie and he's given a class.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:And they're watching all the Jamie Lee Curtis movies.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Minus Trading Places where she finally goes topless.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:That's the whole conversation is why do all these have Jamie Lee Curtis?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:So still doing it, actually.
Speaker D:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:Halloween kills.
Speaker B:I need to at some point.
Speaker C:I mean, and.
Speaker C:Excuse me, Halloween ends.
Speaker D:Yeah, Halloween.
Speaker C:Halloween kills and Halloween ends are the new ones with her.
Speaker D:Let's just say this is not a podcast where we should review that.
Speaker C:Damn.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker C:Damn.
Speaker C:You don't know, man.
Speaker C:We may decide to do, like, a bit where, like, all four of us pick, like, the worst movie we've ever seen.
Speaker D:And how could all of us pick Bird Dimmock.
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker D:Yeah, sorry.
Speaker B:No sex, no drugs, and no.
Speaker B:I'll be right back.
Speaker B:Sydney and Tatum stay together.
Speaker B:Randy teaches the rules.
Speaker B:So this is what I'm having as.
Speaker B:As a break into two of sorts.
Speaker B:Because like I said, that's so late.
Speaker B:Right, Right.
Speaker B:And then the fun and games.
Speaker B:Tatum is killed.
Speaker B:Billy arrives late to the party.
Speaker B:Sydney and Bill, Sidney and Billy talk.
Speaker B:Sydney, again, a self reference.
Speaker B:This isn't a movie, Billy.
Speaker B:This is all one great big movie.
Speaker B:Billy says to Sydney, you know, so in his mind.
Speaker B:Although that probably works, right?
Speaker B:Because, you know, he's instituting his plan.
Speaker B:He probably sees it as one big revenge drama, you know?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Even just more like we're talking earlier.
Speaker C:He's the hero of his own story.
Speaker C:And so, yeah, he's in his, you know, funny games, whatever.
Speaker C:At this point.
Speaker B:I didn't ever.
Speaker B:I didn't pick a B story necessarily.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:He has the love story concerns Nev and her dead mom and is spurred on by Courtney, I guess Gail, as The current murderer and her mom's entwine.
Speaker B:Nev will learn about mom and herself.
Speaker B:I guess I can buy that last part because Nev does undergo some kind of change from seeing how thinking her mom was perfect to realizing.
Speaker B:Because when Billy says, you know, your mom spread her shit all over town, she's not buying that.
Speaker D:Well, Tatum tried to tell her that.
Speaker D:They're on the porch after school one day of.
Speaker D:You know, you can only hear a rumor so much before you start thinking.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:You know, did you ever really think maybe your mom was unhappy and your dad's gone all the time, so.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Sydney thought her mom was hung the moon.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:So if you wanted to.
Speaker B:And I didn't think of that till just now that you're saying it.
Speaker B:James, you could structure the story as a transformation from a daughter's awakening to the reality of her mom.
Speaker B:You know, going from naivete to awareness that people will disappoint you and aren't always as.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker D:Sure.
Speaker B:And you know, now.
Speaker B:Is that the intention of Wes Craven and.
Speaker B:No, I think they wanted a knife and blood.
Speaker C:They did.
Speaker C:It's weak as hell.
Speaker C:That was the.
Speaker C:I mean, they put that in there, so I'm sure that's kind of their thoughts.
Speaker C:Yeah, it was.
Speaker C:It's just weak.
Speaker D:The other.
Speaker D:The other one that.
Speaker D:That bugged me was after Skeet Billy gets out of jail.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And, you know, he's got the fingerprints and all that.
Speaker D:No, it couldn't have been me.
Speaker D:And blah, blah, blah.
Speaker D:He literally tells her, your mom died a year ago.
Speaker D:Maybe it's time for you to get over it.
Speaker D:I'm like, I would have told him dead.
Speaker B:Well, she.
Speaker C:She.
Speaker B:She sort of.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I can't remember what she said, but she reacts, doesn't she?
Speaker B:Doesn't she?
Speaker D:A little bit.
Speaker D:You know, I can't believe you'd be telling me.
Speaker D:I'd be like, dude, if anybody told.
Speaker B:You, you know, she punched Gail.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I think I'm thinking Billy's getting punched at that point.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Killer.
Speaker D:Him being professor knows that relationships over.
Speaker D:And then when he shows up at the party later.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Like, what the are you doing here?
Speaker D:Like, I told you to kick bricks.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker D:That relationship would have been over.
Speaker D:She should have stood her ground.
Speaker D:But I think, like you were saying, the naivete is.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, she wants.
Speaker B:There is, I think, some of the peer pressure and wanting to, you know, be.
Speaker B:Accept.
Speaker B:You know, be accepted by Billy.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:The typical teenager stuff, you know.
Speaker C:What?
Speaker C:You don't drink What?
Speaker C:You're not having sex yet and you're still virgin.
Speaker C:Yeah, all that stuff.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so she is invested in the relationship.
Speaker B:Clearly.
Speaker B:Well, not clearly.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker B:We don't know he's the killer right off, but like, she wants to be in love with Billy, and Billy and we find out.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:I guess no feelings whatsoever.
Speaker B:She.
Speaker B:He is.
Speaker C:I guess it all falls.
Speaker C:I just thought about.
Speaker C:It falls all under this umbrella of how naive she is.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:She doesn't want to admit that her mom, you know, could have had, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:You know, adultery.
Speaker C:She doesn't want to admit that her boyfriend could be this killer and write him.
Speaker C:It's all.
Speaker C:She's like, arrest him.
Speaker C:She's.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Very wish washy.
Speaker C:And then.
Speaker C:Yeah, back on it.
Speaker C:Changed her mind so much.
Speaker C:She.
Speaker C:She does end up having sex, right?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:More fun and games.
Speaker B:Stu and Billy, Killer number one and two.
Speaker B:Stu does not care about.
Speaker B:Like, at some point when Tatum is killed, someone says, well, I haven't seen Tatum in a while, you know, And Stu just doesn't care.
Speaker B:Oh, she's.
Speaker B:He said some off the.
Speaker D:Oh, she's mad at me.
Speaker D:She probably took off.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Do we think Billy killed Tatum?
Speaker C:And like, I mean, so maybe.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:I was just talking about this.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So then Stu, like, does.
Speaker C:I mean, if he did care.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Even though he's a psychopath, like, did he really want to go out to the girl?
Speaker C:Like, he knew what happened to her.
Speaker C:They were in this together.
Speaker C:So maybe he's avoiding the garage for a reason.
Speaker C:He want to go out there and see his girlfriend dead, you know?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Maybe he knew Billy.
Speaker D:I've watched this movie so many times, and I can probably break down.
Speaker D:Which is it, Stu.
Speaker C:Oh, nice.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because I was wondering.
Speaker C:Nice.
Speaker B:Very cool.
Speaker D:Which one?
Speaker D:The only one that I can't pinpoint is the bathroom scene when Sydney's chased out of the bathroom in the high school.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:I think that's just a prank.
Speaker D:I think that's neither.
Speaker C:Who killed Drew at the beginning.
Speaker D:So they were both there.
Speaker C:Oh, nice.
Speaker D:Stu and Billy are both there in most of these occurrences.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker D:I think they were corralling her.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Moved so fast.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:The one that actually stabbed her with was Billy, but they both hung her up in the tree.
Speaker C:Nice.
Speaker D:Okay, so that in the very next scene, when the.
Speaker D:The kids are all at the fountain talking slice and dice and all that, and he's talking about.
Speaker D:Oh, it's easy.
Speaker D:You just stick it in because he had just done it.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Cuz I was wondering, like, old.
Speaker B:Who.
Speaker B:Who.
Speaker B:What's.
Speaker B:What's the body count for Stu and Billy?
Speaker D:You know what the telltale signs are?
Speaker D:Billy tends to choke his victims and use one hand.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Stu tends to go with the double over the head stabs.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker D:That's like the.
Speaker D:That's cool.
Speaker B:I have to go back and watch.
Speaker D:Points that I see.
Speaker B:That's good.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Stuff like that.
Speaker D:So.
Speaker D:But to go back, since I'm just ruining it for everybody.
Speaker D:Anyway, when Billy first arrives at the house after Drew Barrymore's murder, Billy first arrives.
Speaker D:Stu is there kidnapping the father.
Speaker D:They're both there at the house at the same time.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker D:Then he goes to Tatum's house.
Speaker D:Billy shows up in her window, yada, yada, yada.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker D:When Billy is arrested, when Dewey gets.
Speaker D:Catches him, Matthew Lillard was the one hiding in the closet.
Speaker D:Billy calls.
Speaker D:Billy's usually the one on the phone.
Speaker D:Stu's usually the one disguise.
Speaker B:Yeah, but.
Speaker B:Yeah, so when Billy's arrested, though, some.
Speaker B:The killer calls.
Speaker B:So that's.
Speaker D:That's.
Speaker D:That's Stu.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:Calling.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:At that time.
Speaker C:But also Billy, I guess, because right after they have sex and she's.
Speaker C:I guess, kind of.
Speaker C:If you could have an all is lost moment for.
Speaker C:For nev.
Speaker C:Is when she realizes he used his one phone call in prison to call her.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah, he has.
Speaker C:Remember that?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:She questions that and he.
Speaker B:And he has something to say about that.
Speaker B:Called his father wouldn't answer or something.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Because he used that to make one of the calls.
Speaker D:He probably called Stu and said, stu, call her.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Because he didn't have the equipment to do the.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:To make the voice.
Speaker D:My thing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because he.
Speaker B:Yeah, because at that point, that's what.
Speaker C:She figures out, though, right?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:I think so.
Speaker B:Billy has sex with Sydney, breaking the first rule.
Speaker B:So now Sydney has.
Speaker B:Is not.
Speaker B:Has lost a layer of protection, so to speak.
Speaker B:This is what I'm talking about.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:Like why didn't he kill her?
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:I don't know that he's obeying the rules, but I think he wants to break her down piece by piece and, you know, have sex with it and kill her, you know.
Speaker D:Sure.
Speaker C:Well, and revenge for the way her mom was and committing adultery.
Speaker C:Well, I guess my adultery might as well say.
Speaker C:She's pure, I guess.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But it's not adultery.
Speaker C:She's sleeping with a boyfriend.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:No, but I think Billy is that sadistic in that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like it's.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Maybe like he he wants to hear.
Speaker C:All sex to him is.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:He wants to just destroy.
Speaker B:He doesn't want to just kill.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:You know, because this is his issue.
Speaker B:This is like this abandonment.
Speaker B:His mother.
Speaker B:I mean, I think he's got the strongest motivation.
Speaker B:I think he's got the strongest story, you know?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Anyway, Randy is left alone.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:All the.
Speaker B:Everybody.
Speaker B:They get the.
Speaker B:The news that the principal's body has been found on the goalpost or something.
Speaker B:Everybody leaves and Randy is left alone.
Speaker B:Has all rushed out to the scene where the principal's body has been found.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Randy's talking to the tv.
Speaker D:It's right behind you, Jamie.
Speaker D:Right behind you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because Gail has planted a camera.
Speaker B:And so the cameraman is.
Speaker B:Is watching.
Speaker B:This is.
Speaker B:I still have my fun and games.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So he's.
Speaker B:He's got a big paragraph he's got as a midpoint.
Speaker B:The fun and games culminates with the death of the overacting Mr.
Speaker B:Winkler.
Speaker B:And just in time.
Speaker B:Cornered in his office.
Speaker B:So he's got.
Speaker B:The midpoint is the death of Henry Winkler.
Speaker B:And I'm way past that.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:I mean, we're.
Speaker D:Yeah, but is it the death or the.
Speaker D:The finding?
Speaker D:Because those happened at two different times.
Speaker D:The principal gets stabbed.
Speaker B:Cornered in his office.
Speaker B:The principal is stabbed by the real ghost mask killer.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Which definitely raises the stakes of this mystery.
Speaker B:Not to mention not one more person off the list.
Speaker D:Yeah, that could be the half.
Speaker D:The halfway point, midpoint, and then the party happens.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's so weird, though.
Speaker C:His beats aren't happening to a main character, they're happening to a town.
Speaker C:Like, the opening image was with Drew Barrymore.
Speaker C:The catalyst was.
Speaker C:Was.
Speaker C:Was her getting killed.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And then the mid midpoint is the principal getting killed.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Where is.
Speaker C:Where's Sydney in all of this?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So I.
Speaker C:The midpoints, he false victory or false defeat for the main character.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:What.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I would be hard pressed to decide whether that was a defeat or a victory.
Speaker B:Like, how could it be a victory?
Speaker C:I must have had one of his assistants do this, you know, do the scream one.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:Like, Scream is a great movie, but.
Speaker C:I don't agree the way he broke it down.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And which is one of the cool.
Speaker C:Things about this, because there's been times when you and I don't agree.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:We just use these and then try to break crack a story.
Speaker C:So that's cool.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker B:And to be fair, people who go watch Scream aren't interested in a epic.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker B:They want.
Speaker B:It's a.
Speaker B:Largely a fun and games movie.
Speaker B:And that's what you go for.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's what I.
Speaker D:Absolutely.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:And I still love it for that, you know, quotable fun.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:That's why we talked about earlier the.
Speaker C:The beginning of this.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:They're not going in there looking for some great character arc.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Some guy chained or some chicken, you know, change.
Speaker B:Is that a plus?
Speaker B:I think so.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I enjoy movies more when they have it, but it doesn't mean I can't enjoy a movie that doesn't have it.
Speaker B:Right, Right.
Speaker B:And I think.
Speaker B:I think Scream pulls it off with enough entertainment factor that for sure.
Speaker C:You know, and there's enough, you know, all the.
Speaker C:The fun stuff we're talking about the red herrings and the, you know, the reveals.
Speaker C:The reveals a big part of horror movies.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:You know, if you nail that.
Speaker C:That makes sense.
Speaker D:This has a great reveal.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:No, I.
Speaker B:I thought this was.
Speaker B:Yes, I thought it was.
Speaker B:Like I said, I thought it was genius.
Speaker B:When it came out, everybody did 175 million on a 14 million budget.
Speaker B:Everybody.
Speaker B:That's a lot of word of mouth telling people to go see this movie.
Speaker D:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker D:Like I said, I think I saw.
Speaker C:It three or four times on their cellular phones.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Well, there was.
Speaker B:There's a movie with Kim Basinger called Cellular where she's kidnapped.
Speaker C:I think them.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Plays a bad guy.
Speaker B:And the whole thing is the Cellular.
Speaker B:She's Cellular.
Speaker B:I'm not kidding.
Speaker B:That's not.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's even hard to say.
Speaker C:It is.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Just.
Speaker B:Anyway.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So he's got the bad guys close in.
Speaker B:Is the party now.
Speaker D:I could see that.
Speaker B:Which.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:I think the bad guy's been closing in since the first 30 seconds of this movie.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:And then all is lost.
Speaker B:Which on some level I could see.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Agreeing to have sex with Skeet as the all is lost because at that point, she has forfeited her card.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:The house is abandoned and Nev is alone.
Speaker B:Dark night of the soul.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Well, that.
Speaker C:Will you.
Speaker C:You have sex with a guy and then you immediately afterwards realize that he.
Speaker C:You were right the whole time.
Speaker C:This guy is a killer.
Speaker D:That's when you ask.
Speaker C:Major all.
Speaker D:That's when you ask, hey, what'd you do with your phone call in prison?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:Number four.
Speaker B:After.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:God, lady, come on.
Speaker B:Yeah, well.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker D:So this is the time when Dewey and Gail are Got a report of the car in the ravine up the street.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:The kids are leaving the house.
Speaker D:Almost hit him.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And the cameraman is killed.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And they're rolling around in the bushes together.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:The one thing that bugged me and this was the recent, like, the last two or three watchings of Scream.
Speaker D:Gale Weathers is not a nice person.
Speaker D:Never treats Dewey n nice.
Speaker D:She's manipulating him and using him the whole time.
Speaker D:How that turned into a relationship.
Speaker D:In the sequels, they're in relationships on and off again.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:In.
Speaker B:In Part two, they've broken up because she is manipulative and mean.
Speaker B:I do.
Speaker B:He will say.
Speaker B:Now they get back together, I think.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But yes.
Speaker B:And Gail does show in the sequence, Part two, a little bit of heart and regret at how she treated Dewey.
Speaker C:Well, she.
Speaker C:But she's like the first chick showing him, like, attention.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Even if it is being manipulated.
Speaker B:The rest of the world.
Speaker C:And the girls are laughing at him.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Deputy Dewey and all this.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Well, he even says, you know, when I'm wearing this uniform, you have to listen to me talking.
Speaker D:Treat me like a man of the law.
Speaker C:Treat me.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker D:Mama said it.
Speaker B:Mama said so.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:She was just.
Speaker D:And I think Courtney Cox took this role specifically is the other side of what her friend's character was.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:So she could be a.
Speaker D:So she.
Speaker D:I never noticed it before because I was just a young, innocent team just thinking all that.
Speaker D:But looking back, she did a great performance in that because she was not likable at all.
Speaker D:Manipulative.
Speaker D:And it came across well.
Speaker D:And I give her more credit in this movie than most everything else.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:Now there's a movie.
Speaker B:Like, I want to say, it's.
Speaker B:Was there a movie where she started with Bruce Willis, where she was.
Speaker B:She's working at a motel or in some small town or something.
Speaker C:Courtney Cox.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:3000°.
Speaker D:3000 miles to Grace.
Speaker B:I bet it was.
Speaker B:I bet that.
Speaker B:Not Bruce Willis, because Russell and Costner.
Speaker B:Because there's a scene, like.
Speaker B:You want to talk about the opposite of Courtney Cox?
Speaker B:You remember the scene I'm talking about the.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:She's the cowgirl.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:She's a little hot under the couch.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:She's not.
Speaker B:It's not missionary.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And she's going to town and I'm like, courtney.
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker D:So.
Speaker D:But yeah.
Speaker D:So I give her more credit in this movie, I think, than I ever have before.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker C:You know, I mean.
Speaker C:And Jennifer Aniston did the same thing.
Speaker C:Like, it was a little bit later, but like the horrible bosses.
Speaker C:There's nothing.
Speaker C:I feel like, like any.
Speaker C:Any actor that plays like a character for a really long time, I think they get worried about being typecast and the audience only seeing them as that character.
Speaker C:So they try to branch out, do different things.
Speaker C:And they're probably even like, as a challenge man, they're kind of bored of playing the same, you know, type of characters.
Speaker C:Play something completely different.
Speaker D:Any actor, like, good guy all the time.
Speaker C:Let me play a bad guy or whatever.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:I think.
Speaker D:I think most characters or most actors that are on those sitcoms for years and years, they just slowly die inside.
Speaker D:You're getting paid millions.
Speaker B:Million dollars an episode probably helps though, right?
Speaker D:No, but it does.
Speaker D:But then that's probably a big part.
Speaker C:Of it though, too.
Speaker C:I'm dying inside creatively.
Speaker C:All this stuff, it.
Speaker C:Pay me more money if I'm gonna keep doing this.
Speaker B:The friends that by the end of that show were making lots of money per episode.
Speaker C:I mean, and they negotiate together.
Speaker C:Like, they went and said, you're gonna all pay us equally and it's gonna be an insane amount of money.
Speaker C:We're fucking done.
Speaker C:And the producer's like, here's your check.
Speaker D:But then afterwards, you know, Matthew Perry and sure.
Speaker D:All it's like, what did they really do after that?
Speaker B:He went to rehab.
Speaker B:Matthew Perry.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker C:I mean, the whole nine yards.
Speaker D:Yeah, the whole nine yards.
Speaker D:Whole ten yards.
Speaker D:I love those.
Speaker B:Those are great movies, you know?
Speaker D:Anyway, I digress.
Speaker B:No, that's fine.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So some of this, like, Dark Knight of Soul, if you're talking about nev story, you know.
Speaker B:Okay, whatever.
Speaker B:I guess I get it.
Speaker B:By choosing to have.
Speaker B:So his breaking the three is to have sex and die rule the movies.
Speaker B:Now he.
Speaker B:She has entered the monster's secret world.
Speaker B:He says, okay, maybe.
Speaker B:I mean, but she.
Speaker B:She's had sex, but she hadn't decided to because by the time the character's breaking into three.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:They've dug deep down and are going to fight the monster.
Speaker B:She just had sex with them.
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:That was her only decision.
Speaker C:I'm gonna have sex with him.
Speaker B:I'm gonna defeat you by giving you exactly what you want.
Speaker B:So, yeah.
Speaker D:Show you who's.
Speaker C:Anyway.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So my fun and games are still going along with.
Speaker B:Sydney's father's car has been found now because.
Speaker B:So more allusion to maybe he's the guy.
Speaker B:A strong case.
Speaker B:Cameraman killed, Dewey stabbed and Sydney flees.
Speaker B:And then I wrote, I could not locate a midpoint false victory or defeat.
Speaker B:I don't Agree with his or whatever.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean.
Speaker C:Well, yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, like, if you're in the fun and games, there's like 20 minutes left of this movie.
Speaker C:Like, I mean, there's.
Speaker B:Yeah, right.
Speaker B:No, I guess.
Speaker C:I think it's a mess.
Speaker B:Well, I think.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But like, like we said in defense, I think a good slasher movie is fun and games.
Speaker B:I mean, that's what you, you know.
Speaker D:Sure.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:No, it's very interesting that the.
Speaker C:The beats, I guess, are so, you know, wonky and so many either skipped or missed beats.
Speaker B:But as a whole, the movie, you.
Speaker C:Know, you know, it still works and, you know, it satisfied the audience.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, there's very much the genre expectations.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Even Catboy and all these gurus will say that, you know, certain genres carry expectations.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So if you're watching Die Hard, you do not expect aliens to land, you know, because it's not that kind of movie.
Speaker B:In a slasher movie, you do not expect Nev to sit down and read poetry and be introspective about her life.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so this.
Speaker B:Does this meet expectations and fulfill its genre?
Speaker B:I think 100.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, I think.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:So in defense of the movie, I think it does work that way.
Speaker B:For bad guys close in, I have Billy and Stu reveal to Sidney they are the killers.
Speaker B:So the monster, the.
Speaker B:The sin.
Speaker B:Sydney's mother was a slut, slept with Billy's father, which made his mother leave.
Speaker B:So for bad guys to close in, they have to become closer than they have been.
Speaker B:And you mean close in.
Speaker B:You're closed in.
Speaker B:So if I was pressed, that's what I'm saying is that Billy and Stu now are laying it all out for poor Sidney.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:So is your always lost that you know, that her mom was not as, you know, pure as she thought?
Speaker B:I, at this point, I'm grasping all is lost.
Speaker D:That would make sense.
Speaker B:Stu.
Speaker B:It's a scream, baby.
Speaker B:Reveals that they can.
Speaker B:So now not only are these the killers, but the killers have her father.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:Her last remaining parent.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker B:Yes, sure.
Speaker B:And then the dark night of the soul.
Speaker B:Billions do take shots each other.
Speaker B:So they're stabbing each other with a knife.
Speaker B:I don't know how this is a dark night of the soul necessarily for Sydney.
Speaker B:At her, in her mind, it's got to be like, yeah, keep doing that, you guys.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker D:You went too deep.
Speaker C:Feel woozy here.
Speaker B:So what does he have?
Speaker B:He has.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Dark night of the souls never's the best.
Speaker B:So he, you know, he's way behind us.
Speaker B:The Finale Matthew.
Speaker B:And this is his finale.
Speaker B:Matthew and Skeet reveal themselves as the killer seeking revenge against both Nev and her mom.
Speaker B:While Whose hidden sin.
Speaker B:See, he talks about a hidden sin now, which he never mentioned before, of sleeping with Skeet's father ruins Skeet's life.
Speaker B:The twin killer's supercharged powers come not just from insanity, but from being able to be in two places at once.
Speaker B:A and B.
Speaker B:Stories cross as Nev and Courtney work together to kill the killers.
Speaker B:His final image.
Speaker B:Courtney wraps up the tale of Nev's mom and the recent murders, saying, it's like something out of a scary movie, which brings this postmodern thriller full circle.
Speaker B:So the final image, if the opening image was the.
Speaker B:Is what's her name being killed?
Speaker B:The final image is.
Speaker D:That was very specific.
Speaker B:Bill Casey.
Speaker B:I couldn't remember her character name or her real name.
Speaker D:Drew Barrymore Casey.
Speaker D:The first.
Speaker D:The first.
Speaker C:The opening images was in what's her name was Killed.
Speaker C:You know, in a movie where lots of what's her names are killed.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:Courtney Cox, wrapping it up.
Speaker B:The tale of Nev's mom, which.
Speaker B:So if the open.
Speaker B:If the closing image is the reveal of Nev's mom being not so pure, then the opening image has to be at some point, Nev thinking her mom is pure.
Speaker B:You know, I mean, so I don't.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker C:It's a mess.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I think the movie fulfills its expectations and doesn't have a lot of structure, but it's still entertaining because it does fulfill those expectations.
Speaker C:I think playing his Beats is more.
Speaker B:Of a mess than the actual movie is.
Speaker C:Agreed.
Speaker B:In its own genre.
Speaker C:Agree.
Speaker B:You can't fault the movie for being what it's supposed to be.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker B:You know, now I still like a well structured story, but it didn't detract from my enjoyment of it because it so much fulfilled what I wanted to see.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I think I want to laugh.
Speaker B:I want to scream.
Speaker B:I want to.
Speaker C:You want to give a shit and you want to care.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So, like, you're not going to.
Speaker C:So to me, I think the.
Speaker C:The fact that the Beats are so blurry.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I think if you nail the Beats, that's what makes and have a good character.
Speaker C:That's what makes you care more about the character at the end.
Speaker C:Where in this, like we talked about it, we didn't really care all that much.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Maybe that's why.
Speaker D:Because it was not so clearly defined.
Speaker C:That's what I was trying to say.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:But again, I agree with you.
Speaker C:Completely as remove Blake Steiner's beats as a whole.
Speaker C:The movie works.
Speaker C:I mean, it made a ton of money.
Speaker C:It spawned a whole series.
Speaker C:Yeah, it did what it, you know, was supposed to.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So dark night of the soul.
Speaker B:Breaking the three.
Speaker B:Stu and Billy dispatch loose ends.
Speaker B:Tied up.
Speaker B:Gail gets her story.
Speaker B:So, yeah, everything we just said.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker B:I did loosely structure this from Billy's perspective.
Speaker B:And so from Billy's perspective, I have.
Speaker B:Billy is the mama's boy with a stable family.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:His catalyst, Sydney's mother, has an affair with his dad, and his mother finds out, leaving her husband and Billy scarring him.
Speaker B:Debate.
Speaker B:You can almost see Billy at that point, reacting and saying, okay, I'm gonna.
Speaker B:Should I do something about this or not?
Speaker B:I'm having these thoughts.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:Eventually, I'm sure there wasn't just a.
Speaker B:An automatic, I'm gonna go kill somebody.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:He had.
Speaker D:He'd put so much venom behind that.
Speaker D:You know, she was spreading her shit all over town.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:That's where that came from at that point.
Speaker C:It is kind of funny, though, like.
Speaker C:Because what you were saying earlier, where he tells Sidney, you know, your mom was killed a year ago.
Speaker C:Get over it.
Speaker C:Well, like, he's on this.
Speaker C:That's his debate here.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:You know, your mom, you know, committed adultery.
Speaker C:Get over it.
Speaker C:Or do something about it.
Speaker C:And he decided to do something about it.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Not the right thing, but, you know, he did something.
Speaker B:Did something breaking the two, I guess killing Sydney's mother.
Speaker B:Is that what he said?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Fun and games.
Speaker B:The murder midpoint is a false defeat for Billy.
Speaker B:He gets arrested.
Speaker B:I would think.
Speaker C:Yeah, maybe.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Bad guy squares in Sydney breaks up with him.
Speaker B:Before he can have sex with her, all is lost.
Speaker B:Which is now a false victory.
Speaker B:He does have sex with her, so that's a false victory because he doesn't get to kill her.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Dark night of the soul.
Speaker B:I really.
Speaker B:I couldn't.
Speaker B:Unless it's.
Speaker B:Well, I really couldn't break into three.
Speaker B:Revealing to Sydney, stabbing themselves to cover their track.
Speaker B:So at that point, Billy is storming the castle right now.
Speaker B:He's going to get to kill Sidney.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so stabbing themselves, fighting Sydney and Gail.
Speaker B:Final image.
Speaker B:Dying, dead murder.
Speaker B:So he goes from live murder to dead murder, which, you know, is, I guess, his arc.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Descent into madness, resulting.
Speaker D:Yeah, he was the.
Speaker D:The mama's boy.
Speaker B:Mama's boy to sadistic killer with a bullet in his head.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's good.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah, that.
Speaker D:That's a great story.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's what I'm saying Billy's story is solid, I think, which, Well, I, I, I immediately thought of Halloween.
Speaker B:But that story is he's just raging psychopath because that he kills the.
Speaker B:We don't get any.
Speaker B:Do we ever get a motivation for.
Speaker D:No.
Speaker D:Ideally.
Speaker D:Ideally, he's just like Jaws.
Speaker D:Yes, he is a soulless killing machine.
Speaker B:Soulless killing machine, yes.
Speaker B:Now, I was a little surprised we were not talking about Halloween, but I watched it a couple week last week or whatever.
Speaker B:I was a little surprised at how human he sort of acted.
Speaker B:Like there's a scene where he's at the.
Speaker B:When he's initially stalking what's her name, during the day.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:Lori.
Speaker B:Laurie.
Speaker C:During the original Halloween.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker B:And like he's at the schoolyard and the kid runs into him and bumps into him and he grabs the kid and the kid looks at him and he lets him go.
Speaker B:And I'm like, you know, he seems almost emotive at that point.
Speaker B:Instead of this, just, you know.
Speaker D:Well, don't watch the new one.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:Well, you know, and that may have been, you know, the writers and movies because, you know, we talked about before, you don't kill kids, you don't kill dogs.
Speaker C:You know, and that was 76, 79, I think.
Speaker A:So he killed the dog in the.
Speaker C:Originally killed the dog.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:All right, so maybe they were like, look, we killed the dog.
Speaker B:We can't kill kids off camera, you hear?
Speaker A:Yeah, well, you see his little legs go limp?
Speaker C:Oh, all right, well then, I don't know.
Speaker C:Yeah, maybe it was, you know, you just spare the kid.
Speaker C:Go, you know, grow up to become a serial killer like me, kid.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:I hadn't seen it in a while.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Anyway.
Speaker D:Yeah, I think, I think that story that you just broke down of Billy is very good.
Speaker D:Yeah, no, that makes so much more sense.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:And Scream, the prequel.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's too late now, but, you know, screak rule.
Speaker D:Squeak, squeakle.
Speaker C:Yeah, squeak.
Speaker C:I like it.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Pass.
Speaker B:Consider.
Speaker B:Recommend.
Speaker B:I mean, for me, I, I recommend it.
Speaker B:I think, I think when it came out, it was genius.
Speaker B:And I think it's still a lot of fun.
Speaker B:It is what it is.
Speaker B:You're not going to get literature, you're not going to get an epic, but you're going to have a good time, I think.
Speaker B:Which is what you go to these kind of movies for, right?
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker D:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker D:It brought back the horror slasher genre, especially my generation and forward story wise.
Speaker D:I didn't realize until we watched it with a Little bit more critical eye.
Speaker D:If this would have passed my desk, I probably would have said, what.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:But as an overall movie, totally recommend now, I almost.
Speaker B:There's a.
Speaker B:I think they make reference to a director in the West.
Speaker D:Carpenter.
Speaker B:West Carpenter.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I wanted to make sure.
Speaker B:I remember that.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I thought that was very cool.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:This isn't some Wes Carpenter movie.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Nice.
Speaker C:That's cool.
Speaker B:Anyway, yeah, so definitely a recommend for me for what it is, you know.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Recommend for me.
Speaker C:Yeah, same here.
Speaker C:Recommend from all the.
Speaker C:The same points you guys said.
Speaker C:No, I mean, I guess it wouldn't be recommended if I'm looking at it from, like, movies that nail Blake Snyder's, you know, beats.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But even Blake Snyder, I don't think.
Speaker B:Nailed it.
Speaker B:Greed, I don't think.
Speaker C:Agreed.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think he chose this movie because of the popularity and people would.
Speaker B:Would know it when he put it in there.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And it's hard to argue with what it did for, you know, revitalizing the horror genre.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I recommend.
Speaker A:I remember, I.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I don't see these movies in a movie theater.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't like to see scary movies in a movie theater.
Speaker A:As, you know, it's too much, too big a screen.
Speaker A:So I saw it, you know, by rental, and I just remember the advertising, and I remember watching it thinking, this is really good.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because I don't.
Speaker A:I don't like slasher movies.
Speaker A:But, you know, like I said, it was so funny to me and it was a really good whodunit.
Speaker A:It kept you guessing the whole time.
Speaker A:And I remember after I watched it, I said, okay, now I got to go back and watch it all over again so I can see it knowing how it ends.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:You know, so.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:It's funner to have watched it once, find out who the killers are, and then go back and watch it again and really enjoy yourself picking out all the little bits and the red herrings.
Speaker B:Yeah, I would be.
Speaker B:I'd be interested to try to do what you didn't see, because I always thought, well, which ones I do kill, which one did Billy.
Speaker D:Yeah, that.
Speaker D:That.
Speaker D:That's how many times I've seen it is.
Speaker D:I can now pick that out.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:At least I think.
Speaker D:I don't know.
Speaker A:And then, of course, it came.
Speaker A:Got me coming back for the second one because it has.
Speaker A:Because then, you know, they.
Speaker A:Yes, the actors were unknown when they did this.
Speaker A:But then you like.
Speaker A:Okay, I really like this person and this person.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:All the Characters were fun to watch, too.
Speaker B:I mean, each.
Speaker B:You know, and it.
Speaker D:And it still had that shock value of any.
Speaker D:Like in Scream 2, when Jamie Kennedy bites it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker D:It still has that.
Speaker D:Anybody can go at any time.
Speaker D:But then you also get the backstory of Liev Schreiber playing Cotton Weary.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You only see him, like, for a.
Speaker D:Couple of seconds in the news, in a news section.
Speaker B:Not even a speaking part.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I thought he spoke in the first one, then realized, no, it's the second one.
Speaker A:But then Jamie Kinney does show up in the third one as a.
Speaker A:You know, on video.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So that was good to see him show up again.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So anyway.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker D:Well, cool.
Speaker D:Yeah, it was a good one.
Speaker B:That's a good pick.
Speaker D:Happy Halloween.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then the second one, like, they.
Speaker B:They make reference to the movie Stab.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:It becomes Stab, you know, because they're.
Speaker D:Gonna make a meta Stab universe within a universe.
Speaker D:And then it went on to do.
Speaker D:What were the scary movies?
Speaker D:The scary movie franchise.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:The comedy.
Speaker D:So this one just.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker D:Blew up everywhere.
Speaker B:It became a thing.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:With Ghost Face.
Speaker B:Ghost Face, Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:That is Scream.
Speaker B:And like James said, happy Halloween.
Speaker C:Well, Drew Barrymore is dead now.
Speaker C:Who else do we got?
Speaker B:This is my first note.
Speaker B:They pull what I call a psycho.
Speaker C:Oh, for sure.
Speaker B:It's a scream, baby.
Speaker B:So by the time we see Billy, he's already into his fun and games.
Speaker B:He's whacking people, man.
Speaker C:You know, I just thought that the Fonz, you know, became a principle later in life.
Speaker C:He could do what he wanted, you know?
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker D:The ultimate sin was just sex.
Speaker C:Don't you have sex?
Speaker C:You die.
Speaker D:Alarm bell.
Speaker D:Maybe one or two.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:Her job is to wear that tight half shirt, you know, that she does.
Speaker B:This is not that kind of podcast where.
Speaker B:I'd say a lot more, you know.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Let's just say this is not a podcast where we should review that.
Speaker C:Damn.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:This isn't some Wes Carpenter movie.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Nice.
Speaker C:That's cool.
Speaker B:Anyway.
