ROCKY 2

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[00:00:20] Phil: You have an opportunity to be the fifth host of our little show. Click the link in the show notes and leave us a voice message telling us what movie you would like us to review. You can [00:00:30] also reach out on our Facebook page, Fellowship of the Real. From all of us at Fellowship of the Real, thanks for listening.

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[00:00:49] Chris: I believe that no one says how to make a bad movie, with the exception of

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[00:00:57] Sherry: don't like it. That's your own [00:01:00] fault if you haven't seen it.

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[00:01:03] Phil: Start cutting scenes. Even the actors don't know what that movie is about. Shit, I wish I wrote that.

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[00:01:17] Phil: Well it's oatmeal man, it's good for you. Uh, so this time it is Chris choice and we're doing Rocky 2. Is there

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[00:01:28] Chris: 3 or 4?

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[00:01:46] Chris: Okay. And yeah, I think, I don't know, like sure. I'm sure growing up, like Rocky four, even three, the ones with more fights and where the has, you know, I guess, dare I say more cartoon villain, like bad [00:02:00] guys, action movies. Yeah. They turned to action movies a little bit, which I still love three and four, but like those were probably my favorite growing up.

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[00:02:17] Phil: later. That's the that's the phrase. Yeah, I, uh, I was very familiar with like Mr. T and the Russian and all that.

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[00:02:39] Sherry: never seen Rocky nor Rocky 2 because. Oh wow,

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[00:02:45] Chris: Yeah, I, I,

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[00:03:02] Phil: character. I, uh, I was amazed at how much, cause, cause as soon as it came on, I'm like, Oh my God, 1970s bouncing, talking, right.

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[00:03:31] Phil: And I was like, okay, well, you know, these are 1970s, and, but I was totally like into it. I couldn't, I was right, you know, crying in all the right places and all that. I, I was even, even like Rocky too. I was like, yeah, it's every one of 'em is. It gets you man, you know, from

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[00:03:52] James: Nice. That's how I do my research is I just watch the movie and absorb it. This one, I guess, to me [00:04:00] follows such the stereotypical story arc. Like it's easy to digest it. Pulls your heartstrings. You cheer in the right moments. You cry in the right moments. It's I've enjoyed every time I've seen it, but like you said, growing up, it was Rocky three, Rocky

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[00:04:17] Chris: Yeah. I became the most in the, I

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[00:04:39] Sherry: Sure. That's the only one I had ever seen. And I saw it in the movie theater and I don't remember why I went because I am not into fighting or boxing or anything, but I enjoyed, I remember enjoying the movie, but that is the only one I've ever seen before. We watched one and two. Yeah,

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[00:04:57] Phil: I saw Mr. T and the [00:05:00] Russian.

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[00:05:02] Chris: which one was Mr. T in? Uh, three. Three, and

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[00:05:09] James: No. Five, what's, what's the guy's

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[00:05:17] James: That's when they tried to bring it back down to earth after four.

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[00:05:49] Chris: Yeah. And like in Rocky, the rest of the Rockies, like he's, you know, got like a relaxed brain, as he says in two, right? But he's not full retard. Like he's still, like Forrest Gump, if Forrest Gump [00:06:00] could fight, to me, like he's, he's very humble. He's, you know, humility. Yeah. And you know, and he's even, I think he's even kind of funny.

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[00:06:24] Chris: And that's, what's amazing to me. Cause that was only five years after Rocky four. Yeah. But 17 [00:06:30] years later in 2006, I think with Rocky Balboa, like so much more time passed that he was able to find his way back because this performance in Rocky Balboa fits with the other. So like that's a much better movie.

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[00:06:55] Chris: Okay, do you think,

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[00:06:59] Phil: why, why? [00:07:00] Rhinestone, yeah. You just trying to work it in,

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[00:07:18] Chris: And his you know as a boxer his defense is terrible, right? Like put your freaking hands up, you know Stop taking these around the chin but that's what he's known for is a guy who can take a beating like to actually has like one of my favorite lines in any of the in the whole series and in [00:07:30] any movie when uh Duke Apollo's trainers talking to him and trying to convince him not take the fight And he said, he's all wrong for us.

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[00:07:52] Chris: Right. And then like make him human. Like, I guess, I don't know. You know what I mean? Like it bugged me. It was all these. They had to go back to the [00:08:00] streets and return to the roots of Philadelphia, like the, the way the story they came up with for this, which I guess is Stallone, like it just felt too false and didn't, didn't ring

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[00:08:08] James: The storyline was Pauly, after the fourth movie, lost their money and they come back broke.

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[00:08:23] Chris: Right and it trains Tom again, which is what happened with Creed and again, they did that better So, I mean it's kind of nice that with [00:08:30] time with Rocky Balboa and then the Creed's he's able to kind of fix five You tell the story he wanted to tell it just didn't work. Yeah Yeah,

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[00:08:42] Chris: Yeah, right. Yeah So I don't know. So you can't take that. Don't give a brain damage, man. Like they wish they'd come up with something different, you know? No, I

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[00:08:58] Phil: I don't see any, [00:09:00] yeah. He's really upset. What

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[00:09:07] Phil: machine. Yeah, yeah, you like snow cone, right? Right. You know.

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[00:09:13] Phil: anything derogatory to say about the champ?

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[00:09:15] Chris: he's great. It's like he's derogatory. Yeah, it's almost like he was, it comes off like he's thinking about, you know, what can I say derogatory, but you can tell, like, he doesn't know what that word means. So yeah, he's

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[00:09:30] Phil: I don't use them. Good stuff.

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[00:09:36] Phil: works for this. Yeah, no, the.

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[00:09:47] Phil: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I'd have to go back and check, but I think those house numbers change.

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[00:10:05] Chris: thought they were the same, because he says it, and they do add up to nine, like, and, but he's, you know, he's dumb.

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[00:10:17] Phil: right. I'd have to go back and check. But yeah. All right. Yeah. But the thing about Rocky is you love him so much that you're just cheering for him the whole time.

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[00:10:25] James: Oh, yeah. Well, I didn't, I hadn't seen these in a while. And as the [00:10:30] first one starts, it's the end. I'm sorry. As the second one starts, the first one's ending. Yeah. And I totally forgot the first words that Stallone says of dialogue are to Adrian. Yeah. It's, yeah, you know, the fight's ended. She's coming to embrace him.

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[00:10:50] Phil: too. Yeah, well Sherry saw that and she's like, she lost her hat, and I don't know if that was, I don't know if that was planned or not. Yeah, right. I don't know. She looked back and, yeah, no. [00:11:00] Nice.

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[00:11:03] James: I was like, oh, that's a funny line. So, so endearing of his character.

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[00:11:24] Phil: Oh, no

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[00:11:28] Phil: I'm talking about when they're in the ring. Oh [00:11:30] in the ring fighting. Yeah

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[00:11:35] Chris: talking about, you know, you're going down and yeah and all

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[00:11:40] James: no, there'll be no rematch that I

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[00:11:46] Phil: Like you're going down and I don't know, I

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[00:12:04] Chris: Yeah into the first one to kind of get you in the mood right and the he just he recently had a recode of Rocky IV Um, and he released it in theaters, you know, like one day or something back in November, I guess, of last year. And so we went and saw it, because I was curious to see how he'd recut it, and actually, I heard there was like 40 minutes of new footage, so I thought he'd added 40 minutes, made it, you know, two and a half hour plus movie.

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[00:12:56] James: see, definitely got me in the mood.

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[00:13:11] Chris: Yeah, that was, that was Stacy's biggest complaint, was uh, just how slow it is, and how, you know, she says it's better than one, but it's still, it's slow, and it drags, and, and to me it, like, I, I guess I can understand that, but like, I guess, Like, I love the story and I love Rocky so much that I'll watch him read the newspaper.

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[00:13:48] Chris: You know what I mean? And it's, to me, it's, it's all, like, themed. I didn't have, like, a, no one specifically stated it. Yeah, I have some thoughts about that. He, I feel like he kind of plays with this theme throughout the whole [00:14:00] series. Like, he actually vocalizes it in Rocky Balboa, Fighters Fight. Yeah. And then even in 4, where Apollo's, like, you know, they had this big discussion about, you know, You know, Rocky says we can't fight anymore.

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[00:14:24] Chris: I don't know anything else,

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[00:14:37] Chris: got it. So it was a budget was 7 million and it made 200 million like, uh, worldwide.

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[00:14:56] James: Rhinestone movie you were asking about. There you go.

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[00:15:00] Phil: So it cost 200 million and made 7 million.

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[00:15:04] Sherry: Well, uh, whatever.

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[00:15:15] Phil: I mean, 72 is pretty good, but I would have expected more.

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[00:15:21] Chris: Now, yeah,

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[00:15:23] Chris: Correct. He wrote all of them, including the Abysmal Five, but he directed two [00:15:30] through Uh, six. Now. Excuse me. Two through four. And then Rocky Balboa, which is six. The John G. Alvinson did this one and then five. I gotcha. That guy also did like Karate Kid and he did some, some other, like he, this underdog rousing sports story is kind of his shtick.

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[00:15:47] Phil: Did he, was he, I know it was at least nominated for best screenplay. Rocky won. Did he win for that one or was it just nominated? I think he won for his screenplay. Yeah. Yeah. Screenplay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I wanted to say that. Yeah. Yeah. They didn't want I read somewhere that they didn't want [00:16:00] Stallone to direct, and he wasn't going to release Rocky rights to him unless This

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[00:16:04] Chris: Yeah. This one, Rocky 2, yeah. Yeah, the original guy was making something else, uh, oh, Saturday Night Fever, which is interesting, because Stallone ends up directing Staying Alive, the sequel. Oh, I didn't know that, yeah. But yeah, he was doing that, so he couldn't, and then yeah, Stallone wanted to Wanted to direct it and basically, you know, muscle his way in.

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[00:16:36] Chris: And to me, probably why it works so well is so there's so many parallels with the Rocky story that like parallels with his actual life and just, you know, being the underdog and convincing people to, you know, give him a shot.

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[00:16:57] Phil: Yeah. But 1970s Philadelphia [00:17:00] depressed the heck out of me. That, like, if I was living in 1970s Philadelphia, I would spend every waking minute trying to get out of there.

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[00:17:15] Phil: I guess it was all inner cities at the time though.

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[00:17:20] Chris: mean, I feel like they show a lot of the, you know, the, I don't want to say slummier parts, but I mean it. It looked like Right. Don't have lot of money. Say again?

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[00:17:38] Phil: got on tape.

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[00:17:39] Chris: finally

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[00:17:44] Chris: same in

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[00:17:50] Phil: where he moved,

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[00:18:05] Phil: but I still

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[00:18:09] Sherry: Uh, the stairs, the statue and things like that. I don't care to see the, I don't care to see his houses, but, and then along the river where they were showing where he, um, ran in one movie, it wasn't one and two. Yeah,

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[00:18:32] Chris: He doesn't remember, but yeah, we went and saw the, as it's called in the rocky steps. It's a library actually up at the top. Oh, I wondered what that was. And they showed in creed too. I think the statue is actually, I don't remember what year, but it was at the top and they moved it. It's down at the bottom of the steps, like to the right, but up there, if you go to the front where the steps were, excuse me, go to the top of the steps where the statue is his, um, his.

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[00:19:05] Chris: I mean, you see the steps. It's hard not to fight the instincts. I don't know how I, how I did it, but Yeah. Yeah. Even on, what is it, Scott?

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[00:19:11] Sherry: tape? Not on tape. He is, yeah. The people he was filming and he said, here comes

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[00:19:18] Chris: Right. Maybe that's what I was worried about. I don't know. You know, had my rocky moment and then trip and fall. Yeah, but, uh, knock your teeth out, my teeth out and bust this guy's teeth out. And yeah, it was really cool. Yeah. [00:19:30]

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[00:19:32] Chris: So even though it's the beginning for me, even though it's the beginning of the end of the first one, I still chose that as my opening image is him in the, in the ring, bloody, but lost the decision.

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[00:19:49] Phil: Yeah. I just have a opening image. Rocky on daunted. Going the distance with Apollo, you know, this. That this is who Rocky is, you know? Oh, and

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[00:20:00] Chris: Cause it's I

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[00:20:06] Chris: That's the, the journey, the road, and the, like, most, like, uh, the way Blake Snyder does it is pretty much like all sports movies are Golden Fleece. Cause there's a prize at the end, right?

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[00:20:26] Phil: yeah, I completely forgot, but that's, that's probably right. Cause yeah, if, if most sports movies fall [00:20:30] into that, then. Yeah, he

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[00:20:32] Chris: Yeah, a sub genre of golden fleece. The Star Wars is a golden fleece and like Saving Private Ryan is a golden fleece. Like any kind of, uh. A lot of times a prize is even what they call a MacGuffin, like it doesn't really matter, it's just a thing to get.

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[00:20:51] Phil: There you go. Yeah, so the setup, I found, James had mentioned that he, he, it does follow a [00:21:00] store rock, I think some of the beats are Late kind of way late, but that's what I think that's what you get with a Rocky movie though, because you know, what's coming at the end, but that's always the last 30 minutes of the movie.

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[00:21:28] Phil: Brain damage, I don't see any, you [00:21:30] know, uh, Rocky, what do you think about, you know, the fight or whatever? I don't know, I think I maybe should have stayed in school or something. I just, I love these exchanges, right? I mean, and it makes you instantly. Love him. Right. I just totally, um, how do you feel Rocky?

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[00:21:48] Phil: Now I did notice yeah, there's

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[00:22:06] Phil: At the end, when he's in the room with Apollo, uh, Apollo's taunting him and And, uh, uh, Mickey says, uh, don't let it bother your kid.

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[00:22:39] Phil: Him to get him a job with his old boss, right? The guy's hounding him about endorsements and the nurse, uh, graph. And then Tony wants him to invest in his condominiums. And then the nurse wants an autograph. So like people, he hadn't even won, but obviously he's got some notoriety and, and immediately people are going to start wanting something from him.

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[00:22:58] James: first time I caught that was, I [00:23:00] guess the last time I watched it was the nurse was, can you sign this to my son? You know, whatever, to

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[00:23:09] Phil: makes a crack about it. Yeah.

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[00:23:11] James: Yeah. Like you said, Pauly, ask him for the job, the nerd. It's like everybody wants something from him, right? He's just rocky. Yeah. And I feel like they, he's the same guy before the fight in the first

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[00:23:25] Chris: Mm-Hmm. , I don't think he changes. Right, right. Yeah.

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[00:23:28] Chris: as this movie. Yes, [00:23:30] yeah, maybe all of them. But yeah, I think you know, yeah, he's a flat heart for sure I think he changes the people around him, you know, and we can talk about if that could be developed better, right? Well, I

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[00:23:42] Phil: Well, I mean the opening image is Undaunted because it's his heart right like this is and that's and at the end that that heart that that ability to be undaunted And not fall, you know, that, that's what gets him to the, uh, yeah, so [00:24:00] I, I think flat arc and I, and, and I think, yeah, I think that he stays the same and it, and it allows him to.

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[00:24:13] Chris: Yeah, the first one. He did not lose. And that's what ate at Apollo. Man, I beat him, but I got the decision, but I didn't beat him. Right. Right. Right.

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[00:24:20] Phil: right. So the setup. And then there's a lot of, I guess, a lot of setup because he, he begins, he marries Adrian, uh, He

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[00:24:30] Phil: Yeah, which is interesting, yeah. In the first movie. Well, there's a couple things about that, cause Pauly was saying you take retards to the zoo, right?

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[00:24:36] Chris: it was one of Gazzo's, uh, henchmen or whatever. His driver, yes. He goes, she's not retarded, she's shy. And then he goes, hey, Rocky, you do with retards? You take them to the

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[00:24:53] Phil: Okay. And this is, cause, cause I knew Stallone was a great writer, you know, does [00:25:00] Rocky have a theme? Yeah. Well, you need to take a punch or whatever. Okay. But there is, there is a theme and you hinted at it. A fighter. Fights, right? And he'll, he'll say later, I never stopped asking you to be a woman. Please don't stop asking me to be a man.

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[00:25:21] Chris: the tiger. The tiger it's on his back on the jacket that he buys. And

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[00:25:25] Phil: it's at the zoo, the cage at the zoo. Right. Yeah. Uh,

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[00:25:31] Chris: And he's the tiger. Yeah. And the third one. Yeah. Well, you know, I love tigers

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[00:25:49] Phil: He knew there's no way you have a tiger, a tiger on the jacket. When he's doing the commercials. Oh, they put him in a cage. They put him in a cage, and he's got tiger print on with the club, you know? And he's in a cage, and he's, [00:26:00] and, and, and Side of his element,

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[00:26:02] Chris: lines. Smell, smell mainly.

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[00:26:14] Phil: know? Yeah, he was there was no way he was gonna do that successfully right tiger print in the cage, right? So i'm like, yeah, so no one knows what he's very very cool.

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[00:26:32] James: That he didn't thank him for.

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[00:26:35] Phil: have to thank him for the job, Rocky. We don't have to thank him for the watch.

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[00:26:40] James: noticed in that first, the whole thing is everybody's taking advantage of him. Everybody, except Adrienne. Right. She's, oh you're retired, she's Holding him in the cage. Yeah.

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[00:26:59] Phil: Yeah. He's [00:27:00] great. He is like, even to the point and not all of it, the bulk of it is him and his acting. Absolutely. But they, they, they light him correctly with like he's in

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[00:27:19] Chris: Yeah. Like he takes his hat off. Cause in the first one, the combination to his locker is in his hat. Yeah. But he, Rocky opens up the gym, goes in there and starts going up the steps and it's late at night. So Mickey comes out like a bash. [00:27:30] I'm like, who the hell is that? You know, just ready to bash somebody.

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[00:27:35] somebody's

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[00:27:37] Chris: he is. Did he say that? He said, I'm gonna be giving you a key? No, he said, I didn't catch that.

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[00:27:54] Phil: Okay, because Stallone says a couple of things During the commercial when [00:28:00] they're in the cage and then what he's doing gotta be punchy doing this in front of my wife Sure, but he says the the guy says to him after he's pissed and wants to fire Rocky. Will you get out of the cage? And I think that's the question of the movie.

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[00:28:28] Phil: You know. Oh, even the audience, I

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[00:28:39] Phil: Yeah, we all know what's coming.

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[00:28:49] Chris: whatever. Yeah, cause he, cause he keeps trying to go out for all these like office jobs that he doesn't have any skills for.

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[00:29:06] Chris: You know what I mean? It's interesting. You know what? I didn't think about it. Maybe that's some of the theme too, like it's, it's dead animals that he's dealing with, right? It was cows and so it's meat, right? That plays into the, you know, being an animal in a cage and you know, this is a dead end job.

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[00:29:25] James: I noticed the thing though, uh, Everything in Rocky's life, to him, is [00:29:30] normal. He doesn't understand why he can't box anymore. Yeah. He doesn't understand I'm the same guy. Why can't I go back to the way it was before Apollo? I feel the same.

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[00:29:57] Phil: It's And And he's made this promise [00:30:00] for him, made this promise to Adrian, right?

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[00:30:03] James: all he wants to do is. Continue to live the life he was living.

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[00:30:17] Chris: Yeah. I think, and he knows that's the best thing he's ever, only thing he's ever been good at. And,

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[00:30:27] Chris: He has to lose the car. He loses his job. He doesn't [00:30:30] lose the house, right.

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[00:30:35] Phil: loses all his things. I think he wants to believe that he can do other things. It's right. Oh, for sure.

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[00:30:45] Phil: career is over kid.

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[00:30:49] Chris: help. You know, I love that scene where he does the finger thing and I see it. Now you see nothing. You want to keep doing your whole face, right? He's like, you know, what do you think the champ would have done to you? [00:31:00] I don't know. It would be bad.

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[00:31:18] Chris: And he just, I gotta be around it. Yeah, yeah. That gets me, pulls at the heart strings like majorly. And that's,

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[00:31:32] Phil: at some point, I guess Adrian gets pregnant, uh, and then, and then again, one of these What I consider a key phrase and I can't remember who he said it to might be talking to Adrian Do I want to be doing something?

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[00:32:00] Phil: And she said, well, we'll get by. And he says, well, that's just it getting by. I don't want to just get, I don't want to get by. I want you to have the things now, you know, cause in his mind, a man provides for his family, you know,

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[00:32:16] Chris: I heard you're a pretty good fighter. Like, so. There's even these hints of you're on the wrong path, you know, and again, back to Jameson, he's the only one that wants to go down this road again. Should that, and Apollo, the guy that wants to fight him where everybody else, he's got no support,

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[00:32:30] Phil: Uh, he says one more time, I'm a fighter. That's what I do. So I'm assuming this is in that conversation with Adrian at the bottom or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. So we talked about the theme. I do not, I didn't hear an early statement, but I think that tiger, I think the whole cage thing, that's cool. Yeah. I did not catch that.

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[00:32:53] Chris: I don't want to say a double bump, but losing the job at the meat locker, right? And then him going to, well, no, I guess that's it.

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[00:33:15] Chris: Like a lot of times when they break into two, the cross the threshold, they don't always land on, you know, solid ground. And then they stumble and, and it can have like a, a fall, like right out of the gate, I guess. Right. And I kind of feel like that's what happens here. Cause he. [00:33:30] Brady's, you know, breaks in the shoes.

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[00:33:46] Chris: Right. I'll, you know, I've got to be around it. Like he's still like, I don't know what he thought. Like I get it. I got to be around it. But like, did he think when Mickey sees me carrying buckets, maybe he'll go, all right, let's train here. So I don't know. You know what

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[00:33:59] Phil: Cause then [00:34:00] after

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[00:34:14] Chris: Like, you know, that like, all right, if he gets mad enough. He's going to knock this dude out and it's not worth it. But, but you have it later, right? Cause at first, my first instinct was that everything was later. And I'm like, all right, well, what if it's not? Cause there's a lot in there. If it's at the break in the two is way late.

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[00:34:34] Phil: catalyst is with no other options. Rocky says he has to fight, right? Yeah. Uh, the debate. is he promised Adrian he could lose his eye, Mickey knows the danger and warns him off, that, that scene at the top of the stairs, uh, gives him a job at the gym.

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[00:35:06] Phil: Apollo is his double bump because he's still pressing for a rematch. And then, and then Rocky is sweeping the gym and he has the conversation with his old boss, the mob guy or whatever. Yeah. Remember that guy, Rock? Remember that guy, Rock. That's exactly it. Yeah. Uh, and then he goes home and I guess he has the conversation with Adrian in the basement.

[: 00:35:23

[00:35:25] James: was when he was, uh, laid off. Yeah. That might have been the [00:35:30] conversation in the bedroom when he says, Yeah, yeah, yeah. I gotta be a fighter. Okay, yes. I'm not asking you to not

[: 00:35:34

[00:35:39] Chris: But Rocky's sitting there and is By the stairs with a dog watching it, he gets mad and goes up the stairs.

[: 00:35:43

[00:35:52] Phil: It's all I know. Don't ask me to stop being a man slash beast tiger. Right. I mean, uh, yeah, tiger can't change its [00:36:00] stripes. Right. Yes, absolutely. So, uh, I have the break into two cause then there's like, uh, there's a knock at the door and it's Mickey, right? Cause Mickey saw the commercial where Apollo is taunting.

[: 00:36:11

[00:36:20] Chris: act. I thought about that. I did. Is that your second

[: 00:36:23

[00:36:27] James: Right. Yeah.

[: 00:36:27

[00:36:31] James: um, I was watching it. I was like, I think I know where the second

[: 00:36:33

[00:36:34] Chris: that was my door. That was my instinct. But I guess I, I guess where I struggle is. From the moment him going to see Mickey on the stairs, right? Hey, let's do this, right?

[: 00:36:43

[00:36:59] Chris: I think [00:37:00] finally he's in his corner. Yeah,

[: 00:37:01

[00:37:03] Chris: way, if he gets everything he thinks he wants, right? Yeah. But, but he, then he, you know, after that he starts training half-ass and all that. Yeah. So you

[: 00:37:09

[00:37:13] Phil: Uh,

[: 00:37:13

[00:37:18] Phil: Yeah. We see both ways,

[: 00:37:19

[00:37:30] Chris: Like he's made up his mind. He's everybody else

[: 00:37:33

[00:37:46] Phil: And, and then, then he's hauling spit buckets and he's not even training. Like he's just showing guys how to snarl and howling spit buckets. And so I think at that point he's debated and decided. Right? Yeah. Uh, but then he has this conversation with [00:38:00] Adrian and so now he's still sort of changed his mind again.

[: 00:38:03

[00:38:20] Phil: No. Okay. I can't do it. Mickey says I can do it. Yes. Let's go do it. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, so, but I, but I do think that the beats are not, uh, I [00:38:30] don't think they're Crystal clear on all of them. Yeah. Crystal clear or on time, but, but with Rocky, you always get set way back because you know, when the fight comes, Rocky has to be Way back because he's got to overcome right?

[: 00:38:42

[00:38:46] Chris: They almost follows a hero's journey more than than Blake Sarna cuz it's like one big ordeal

[: 00:38:51

[00:39:03] Phil: However, story structure has many titles, many categories, but essentially Hero's Journey and Catboy have different names for a lot of the same stuff. And Hero's Journey will say, you can rearrange them and all this stuff any way you want. Uh, Snyder is a little more strict, a little more rigid. So I think that You're probably right about the hero's journey, and that's why maybe I think they're late according [00:39:30] to Snyder, or whatever.

[: 00:39:31

[00:39:52] Chris: And then the, uh, Kentucky Fried Idiot, you know?

[: 00:39:55

[00:40:14] Phil: Protect his bad eye. Yeah. Which he does. Now, does he ever switch in the fight? Cause he says, I don't want to do tricks. I'm going to, I

[: 00:40:22

[00:40:28] Chris: And I think he does. Okay.

[: 00:40:29

[00:40:44] Phil: But then other viewers said, yeah, he did do it. And

[: 00:40:47

[00:41:01] Chris: It should have been his right. I don't know. I didn't understand what they were doing there.

[: 00:41:03

[00:41:09] Phil: is it? You're jabbing with your left to set up the right. Yeah, okay, so it's not

[: 00:41:14

[00:41:17] Phil: jab

[: 00:41:18

[00:41:22] Phil: swing it.

[: 00:41:23

[00:41:26] Chris: Then, yeah, it's my lack of, uh, knowledge on that. I don't know, I don't know. I thought [00:41:30] Southpaw was like you hit with your left, but you're saying that that's the hand that leads out. Where most guys

[: 00:41:34

[00:41:36] James: Yeah. Your left is back, protecting your face. Gotcha. It's, and it throws, so if you were to fight right handed. We would be mirroring each other, and that's what's so challenging about it. Okay. It's because our jabs will run into each other, our crosses will run into each other. But as

[: 00:41:51

[00:41:54] Chris: And you're gonna

[: 00:41:54

[00:41:55] Phil: with your left. Yeah. Cause like, uh,

[: 00:41:57

[00:42:03] Phil: then. I guess so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause that, cause like, uh, turn into a

[: 00:42:07

[00:42:07] Phil: podcast all of a sudden. Yeah, right. Well, I mean, no, that's I, I know nothing about

[: 00:42:11

[00:42:12] James: I'm not a

[: 00:42:12

[00:42:29] Chris: that. And so I guess, [00:42:30] yeah, I guess I just thought it was the,

[: 00:42:31

[00:42:40] Phil: And so, so I guess that's the predominant style, but I didn't know enough about boxing mechanics to be able to pick that up. But some say this was, I guess he did switch then. Yeah. It's like in

[: 00:42:49

[00:42:58] Phil: Yeah, and I [00:43:00] loved Mickey, I just love Mickey, but you know, you get goosebumps when Mickey's like speed, speed, speed, you know, it's just, oh, yeah, well,

[: 00:43:08

[00:43:13] Phil: it, training him like a bum, well, it's because of Adrian, right? Yeah, he's not

[: 00:43:17

[00:43:28] Chris: Which I think is why [00:43:30] I call it a false defeat. Yeah, well he, he, uh, He has bad guys closing in too, right? Cause they cut with his half assing with Apollo like overtraining and ass attraining. Yeah. Um, Yeah, you just give me another one. Yeah, he's knocking out his, yeah, his sparring partners left and right and does not give a shit.

[: 00:43:44

[00:43:45] Phil: I'm the best. Women love you. Yeah, he's the tiger, but, but if Adrian doesn't Approved. That's robbing him of all his joy for, you know, one more line from the chicken scene. Why do I got to chase chicken? First, because I said so. [00:44:00] Greased lightning. Yeah. Uh, his heart is not in it, not on board.

[: 00:44:06

[00:44:28] Phil: You'll be the beast. You know, [00:44:30] we'll have to put you in a cage kid again, this time, you know, but again, a reference. Yeah,

[: 00:44:37

[00:44:41] Phil: the cage bit. Alright, so here, here's where we're differing a little bit on the structure. Okay, so Adrian,

[: 00:44:49

[00:44:52] Chris: You know, chasing a damn chicken. Right, right.

[: 00:44:54

[00:45:12] Phil: Uh, the midpoint is Adrian going down. Cause then we're going to start talking about the dark night of the soul and the bad guys closing in. And so I have the midpoint is the false defeat with Adrian in a coma and Mickey almost seemingly turning his back on him. And then the. All is lost, which has to now has to be a [00:45:30] false victory, right?

[: 00:45:30

[00:45:52] Phil: Mickey is sitting right there with him. You know, uh, so that's where I have the, the midpoint is the Adrian going down and, and I skipped all his loss, but the, [00:46:00] uh, well, the all his loss is false victory. Yeah, the bad guys are, Adrian isn't waking up and, and Rocky's spirit is gone, right? So these, these are his bad guys, his own.

[: 00:46:09

[00:46:26] Phil: Keep listening. He's reading to her. Uh, and then [00:46:30] and then Adrian wakes up. There's they see the baby together. This is the dig down name, the kid after the father. Uh, and then she says, one thing I want you to do for me, win and music keys, and I'm crying like a baby and , off we go, right?

[: 00:46:43

[00:46:45] Chris: It's interesting 'cause yeah, because I guess I have the, the training, you know, Kentucky Fried Idiot training, like a, you know, like a bum, like a Mickey even says, I liked you better when you were carrying spit buckets, right? So, yeah. Yeah. You

[: 00:46:55

[00:46:57] Chris: So I have all that as. Bad guys close in and then [00:47:00] Adrian still out sporting Apollo over here, who's preparing to kill him.

[: 00:47:03

[00:47:13] Phil: See all that works too because that is certainly. Like, he's losing everything! Right, I mean, so, I can definitely see

[: 00:47:19

[00:47:19] Chris: That's a false defeat, you know? And then, yeah, Dark Knight's them sitting around, and then you're seen with the church. Cause, yeah, cause, that's, I think, Mickey staying with him and not turning his back is, you know, [00:47:30] part of his, you know, Dark Knight's own dig down deep and still committing, you know?

[: 00:47:34

[00:47:34] Phil: No, I can see that. I struggled with these.

[: 00:47:37

[00:47:51] James: weird. You keep saying timing. What do you mean?

[: 00:47:53

[00:47:58] Chris: of the night are so [00:48:00] strict, I guess, on his form that like you're breaking into two, like your setups one to 10 minutes, right? Your cows is by 12 minutes in your break in two happens by 25 minutes in an hour and a half movie for an hour and a half movie.

[: 00:48:12

[00:48:19] Phil: My DVD, it was saying like one 58. Uh, no,

[: 00:48:23

[00:48:25] Phil: Oh, no, no. Yeah. So Rocky is, so you push those numbers out for a two hour movie, [00:48:30] a little bit.

[: 00:48:31

[00:48:31] Chris: what his debates are. They're 12 minutes to his, his, his debates from page 12 to 24. So, you know, it gives you wiggle room there, right? Cause you need 12 minutes of debate. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't, I guess. Right. So it's not a

[: 00:48:41

[00:48:44] Phil: flexible.

[: 00:48:45

[00:48:55] Phil: Yeah, it should be a half hour for the first act a half hour for the third act in an hour for the middle act yeah [00:49:00] but

[: 00:49:02

[00:49:03] James: in we're getting off rocky just a little bit But if a movie doesn't have those things does it just feel wrong like if you have a midpoint that's well I think the midpoint

[: 00:49:12

[00:49:43] Chris: That's

[: 00:49:43

[00:50:06] Phil: Was I at any time bored in that first hour? I wasn't right. That's

[: 00:50:10

[00:50:19] Phil: And, and, and to my way of thinking, after the midpoint, you have the bad guys, dark night and, and all is lost.

[: 00:50:26

[00:50:43] Chris: now.

[: 00:50:44

[00:50:58] Chris: To me, that's his break in of three, but [00:51:00] it's all the training and the fight. That's a lot. You know? Right,

[: 00:51:03

[00:51:04] James: saw that as the back half of the second act. The third is I'm standing in the ring. I was hoping it wouldn't show up.

[: 00:51:11

[00:51:17] Phil: Uh, Oh, you mean the training and stuff? Well, that's a fight is storming the castle.

[: 00:51:20

[00:51:23] Chris: because even when he's training the right properly with the

[: 00:51:25

[00:51:33] James: He got rid of the holy sweaters and stuff, and he's bouncing around with the logs and it's, yeah, it's just a lot more upbeat,

[: 00:51:41

[00:51:41] Phil: upbeat. Right. Um, it's fun. It's

[: 00:51:43

[00:51:45] Phil: Right. Yeah. So. So I have the, the, the, the act breaks. I, it's interesting. I just thought of it here, but you know, act two, I think we should knock his block off act three.

[: 00:51:55

[00:51:56] Chris: Yeah, right. I do think there's one thing I've noticed as we started doing [00:52:00] this podcast and I kind of write them down as, as they occur to me when I watch them is there's a lot of, you know, I feel like you picked up on visual cues of going into the next act, you know, going through doorways and different stuff.

[: 00:52:10

[00:52:15] Phil: no, absolutely. Uh, And then I, you know, what are you waiting for? And then of course, this is what you get with Rocky. I wrote down the words, awesome montage. Yes.

[: 00:52:23

[00:52:24] Chris: Oh man. For sure. You know,

[: 00:52:27

[00:52:37] James: love. It was such a good contrast from the previous, uh, montage scenes of him just hitting the bag, screwing up and just hitting the, now this you're like, yeah, he's doing it.

[: 00:52:49

[00:52:53] Chris: in his corner too. Like, so obviously Adrian woke up, says, when Mickey's back on board. Right. Which I guess, you know, [00:53:00] since I started training, you know, or he told him to get the hell out of the gym. He didn't leave him, but the whole city too, he's running with the kids.

[: 00:53:06

[00:53:13] Phil: alone. Yeah. Right. No, no, this is, um,

[: 00:53:16

[00:53:22] Phil: Well, it's, uh, it's, uh, I actually wrote down cause it's definitely, I think the tiger thing, but it's, it's humility versus pride, right? [00:53:30] Apollo. It's all about pride. Adrian, uh, Rocky's doing this. For his family, right? Apollo is doing this because of his pride and that's why he has to lose. And later on, of course we know he falls victim to this pride, like fatally.

[: 00:53:44

[00:53:59] Phil: Right. [00:54:00]

[: 00:54:00

[00:54:06] Phil: like this

[: 00:54:07

[00:54:10] Phil: from last year? Yeah. Yeah, he's uh, uh, they're standing there, you know, Rocky, uh, Hey, Nick, just so you know, I'm gonna try real hard for you tonight.

[: 00:54:17

[00:54:21] James: You look surprised. I didn't think you'd show

[: 00:54:23

[00:54:38] Phil: Yeah. Yeah.

[: 00:54:38

[00:54:47] Chris: him out. Which, yeah. Cause he had the match one points wise. All he had to do was say, wait, the announcer said that. I think that's one thing that Sloan does really well too.

[: 00:54:53

[00:55:12] Chris: Or just like, I don't know,

[: 00:55:12

[00:55:17] Chris: Yeah, it's Like, you could just read their commentary and understand how the fight goes, like without visuals. Yeah,

[: 00:55:23

[00:55:25] Phil: I know, but like, he didn't have to put that in the script. You know what I mean? No, no, no, it's absolutely [00:55:30] Yeah. So then, then the fight, you know, and that's where

[: 00:55:32

[00:55:38] Phil: off.

[: 00:55:38

[00:55:43] Chris: Does the change up or switch? Yeah. Duke asked him to the change up or switch, you know, no, it didn't affect nothing, man. It's like, yeah, he's not

[: 00:55:49

[00:55:50] Chris: whatever, but even yeah. Yeah. Duke was wanting him to stay away. And there's some, uh, some cool lines there that I didn't realize until later, but, uh, Duke calls, [00:56:00] uh, Rocky dangerous.

[: 00:56:01

[00:56:23] Chris: That's really cool that one Sloane remembered all the dialogue all those years, you know, did he go back and watch them or did he just remember, I don't know, but [00:56:30] it's really cool. Just all the dialogue

[: 00:56:32

[00:56:46] Phil: Slur, and it's because of a pinched nerve, but man, so you think, Oh, Stallone, he's a lame brain, you know, he's a lazy brain. What is it? A slow brain? What is it? Got like a relaxed brain. Relaxed brain. Yeah. So you think Stallone does, but, but, but he, he [00:57:00] can, he knows story and he can write and it's just, it's always, and I know I shouldn't be surprised, but it's always sort of weird for me to think.

[: 00:57:06

[00:57:17] Chris: me, like, if you look at him in other movies, like, uh, like Get Carter, um, or even, uh, Tango and Cash. Like, to me, I hate to call it sophisticated, but like the, there's not [00:57:30] Relaxed brain stuff in there.

[: 00:57:32

[00:57:39] James: Tango and Cash myself.

[: 00:57:40

[00:57:42] Phil: Awesome. Yeah. I got

[: 00:57:43

[00:57:45] Phil: tonight. Yeah. Trading punches both fall, but the man with the heart stands up final image.

[: 00:57:50

[00:57:51] Chris: know Well, and also it's something that struck me that you know I've seen this many thousand times But he's sitting there and he's you know, it's holding his belt and he says with the exception of my kid being [00:58:00] born That's the greatest night of my life Yeah And they cut to Adrian like I feel like to me like what I got over watching at this time is she finally Understood what that meant to her.

[: 00:58:08

[00:58:24] Chris: Like she just does a lot of good stuff. Well, just her reactions to me. Can you drive? I mean, that's some dialogue. I'm,

[: 00:58:29

[00:58:31] Chris: They'll drive you crazy. Give me a chance. Yeah, just like she knew he she'd seen this dude walk everywhere. She knew he couldn't fucking

[: 00:58:36

[00:58:49] Phil: Yeah. Okay. Yes. Okay I don't want him to fight because they get hurt but part of who rocky is is the fighter and that's part That I love because that's who he is and I think she realizes, well, this is the [00:59:00] guy I love and this is who he is. I gotta, if I love him, I gotta let him be who he is or whatever.

[: 00:59:04

[00:59:04] James: for sure. Yeah. There's a, there's a weird fact about the, the fight scene, uh, with Adrian and Polly at the house or whatever that was filmed. Way later. Really? Yeah. They imposed that into the fight. Just for the emotional aspect. Yeah,

[: 00:59:20

[00:59:24] Chris: Like when they, when they had the, when they had rented it out or whatever. So that Sloan's like, all right, well, we'll just come up [00:59:30] with some stuff. But the doctor says she's got to stay at the house.

[: 00:59:32

[00:59:41] Phil: Right. You know,

[: 00:59:42

[00:59:46] Phil: Right. Yeah. So yeah, it's, it's just, you're telling me she can't be there. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. But

[: 00:59:52

[00:59:55] Chris: oh my God, it never bothered me before, but yeah, watching it and learning the backstory, I guess, behind it [01:00:00] was interesting, but yeah, it didn't, didn't bother me before.

[: 01:00:02

[01:00:12] Chris: Adrian, I did it. Yeah. So yeah, I think a lot of people think it's from the first one, but it's not. It's from that one. Cause he didn't win the first time.

[: 01:00:18

[01:00:20] James: in the first one. He's yelling for Adrian.

[: 01:00:23

[01:00:25] Phil: Rocky, but it's from the second one. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, yeah. So you get, so there are your images, right? [01:00:30] Uh, The two fights. Right. Yep. Um, and the difference is, you know, he, he showed the world what they only thought before.

[: 01:00:38

[01:00:40] James: And he proved to Apollo, he got beat soundly. Yeah.

[: 01:00:45

[01:00:48] Chris: And the third one, because when he loses to Mr. T, Apollo offers to train him because Mickey dies like in his, in his, I guess, mid eighties, early eighties, I [01:01:00] guess as cheesy as they can kind of feel with three.

[: 01:01:02

[01:01:18] Chris: And like finally shows him, look, man, you got to stop taking these punches on the face. You got to have some defense and move like it's, um, it's really good.

[: 01:01:26

[01:01:27] Phil: Mickey years ago. Yeah. Cause [01:01:30] I

[: 01:01:30

[01:01:32] Phil: being just cut and fast. Like, you know, it didn't happen until three.

[: 01:01:36

[01:01:38] Chris: And again, I think it's where Stallone's career started to take off too, and became this, he got more kickers in Rambo, Rambo he's cut, Rambo 2 he's more good. Did he have to

[: 01:01:46

[01:01:50] James: Yeah, Rocky 3, he doesn't remember filming.

[: 01:01:52

[01:01:52] Chris: I'm sorry, you're right. It's 3. I said 4, but it's

[: 01:01:54

[01:01:54] Phil: He was on such a restricted diet. 2

[: 01:01:56

[01:02:04] James: he was. How much did he weigh at that point in Rocky III?

[: 01:02:07

[01:02:09] Chris: Was it that low? I know in the movie they say it's like 180 some because he goes from 200 pounds to like Yeah, he's like 200 because

[: 01:02:15

[01:02:24] Chris: think he's, yeah, he's shorter, which speaks to the, if he's one 60, you know, it doesn't sound as small as it

[: 01:02:29

[01:02:31] James: Mike Tyson's not gigantically tall. Yeah. He's a shorter guy too. He's two, two 20.

[: 01:02:37

[01:02:47] Phil: Oh, well,

[: 01:02:48

[01:02:52] Phil: Yep. Consider, pass, uh, recommend, uh, it's Rocky, man. Yeah. I mean,

[: 01:02:57

[01:02:58] Phil: know, I, I [01:03:00] recommend it. I, I, I grew up on 3 not 5, 3 and 4. The, the two I remember are Mr. T and the Russian. And I saw those in the theater, uh, you know, uh, I probably, I know I didn't see 1 and 2 in the theater and I was really hard pressed to remember ever seeing it.

[: 01:03:17

[01:03:33] James: I'm the same way. Like, I love it. Love the whole series apart from five.

[: 01:03:37

[01:03:40] Chris: I have a hard time, but I skip it, man.

[: 01:03:42

[01:03:56] Phil: yeah.

[: 01:03:56

[01:03:58] Chris: 2. Oh. I was like, [01:04:00] man. She's like, I've never been a big fan of Adrienne in a while. Yeah. It's like Adrienne. It's like the heart of the series, but they said the same thing that you're saying. She

[: 01:04:07

[01:04:11] James: Yeah. You know, she's an excellent actress. So, it's just me, but the movies are great. Totally watch them all.

[: 01:04:18

[01:04:31] Chris: Um, yeah, I don't think I saw, pretty sure I didn't see five and then yeah, the others, I must've, you know, watched them on, on tape or TV or whatever when they, it's interesting, I can remember which Star Wars movie I saw first, but I can't remember which Rocky movie I saw first, but it had to have been like three or four or something.

[: 01:04:45

[01:04:51] James: I was like, why do they call this movie Rocky four?

[: 01:04:54

[01:05:00] Phil: But then, I mean, I guess there was rental places at that point. Sure. Uh, but certainly no streaming, and it was all VHS, so I probably didn't seek them out or whatever. Yeah. But the 80s, it became this, you know, big, the big blockbuster movies coming out, and Rocky III and IV were You know, you, you went and saw it.

[: 01:05:20

[01:05:27] Chris: this before, but I think, you know, the eighties [01:05:30] produced probably the best, the highest quality of movies. Ever in my opinion.

[: 01:05:34

[01:05:53] Chris: Right? Yeah, yeah. But it's, you know, that's turning around now. I mean, you're, you know, all these actors that, well, I don't wanna be a fucking superhero. They, they go and [01:06:00] find some original content on some streamer somewhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like right now we're getting so many stories, it's really cool. But anyhow, as far as movies, I feel like the eighties was a, was a special time.

[: 01:06:10

[01:06:12] Sherry: Well, uh, we've had the DVDs, the Rocky DVDs for a long time, have we not

[: 01:06:19

[01:06:20] Sherry: Okay. And I've never really. Said, okay. Well, let's sit down and watch them now that we you know had not I'd hate to say had to [01:06:30] but we were You know chose or Chris chose.

[: 01:06:33

[01:07:02] Sherry: Russian, yeah. Mm-Hmm. . Yeah.

[: 01:07:04

[01:07:04] Phil: don't, I will

[: 01:07:05

[01:07:06] Sherry: Yeah. I don't remember Mr. T. So you said that

[: 01:07:08

[01:07:08] Phil: three? Yeah, I think so. That's, that's the first one I saw. Yeah. So yes, Steve was big then, right? I mean,

[: 01:07:13

[01:07:15] Phil: 18

[: 01:07:20

[01:07:27] Chris: Yeah No, he's pacing back and forth in the locker [01:07:30] room or whatever and the press is you know, you know But I mean give us a statement and sorry go ahead sure. No, I'm

[: 01:07:34

[01:07:47] Phil: So true. Two simple people trying to make their way in the world. You know what I mean?

[: 01:07:52

[01:07:52] Sherry: Yeah. But I really like Rocky.

[: 01:07:55

[01:08:02] Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, now Stacey wouldn't have gone for, she's seen Rocky 1, but she wouldn't have gone for watching 1 and 2 like you guys did.

[: 01:08:09

[01:08:28] Chris: Yeah. And then I think, I think [01:08:30] it's Pauly that asked him, Hey, Rocco, you gonna let him talk? And he's like, Oh, don't bother me. Don't bother me none. Yeah. And then he goes outside after the press conference, he's leaving the house and it's just him and Adrian like on the porch. And he has this moment. It's like one of my favorite moments in the whole movie.

[: 01:08:41

[01:08:50] Phil: he's a big, he's all heart, right? So, and that's the thing that makes you love him, but it's also the thing that gets him to stand up when, you know, Apollo.

[: 01:08:59

[01:09:15] James: Completely different styles of story.

[: 01:09:19

[01:09:22] Sherry: Oh, no, why, why?

[: 01:09:25

[01:09:31] Phil: But that's what, I think that's what you get with a Rocky movie, though, because

[: 01:09:34

[01:09:37] Phil: anyhow. Yeah. You get goosebumps when Mickey's like, Speed, speed, speed, you know.

[: 01:09:41

[01:09:46] Phil: It gets ya, man.

[: 01:09:47