Episode 7

Published on:

17th Aug 2022


The Fellowship Of The Reel reviews: ROCKY 2



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"Welcome to the Show" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)

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greetings reelers my name is phillip and together with my wife sherry and two of our friends chris and james we're


fellowship of the real four people who love talking about movies almost as much as we do watching


them we hope you will join us as we dig deep into cinematic masterpieces and some


that are well maybe not you have an opportunity to be the fifth host of our little show click the link


in the show notes and leave us a voice message telling us what movie you would like us to review


you can also reach out on our facebook page fellowship of the real from all of us at fellowship of the real


thanks for listening okay on with the show are you recording this


[Music] studying a movie in the mechanical level i think can


really bring some revelation i believe that no one sets out to make a bad movie with the exception oh


on paper this should work i just don't like it that's your own fault if you haven't


seen it way over-budgeted start cutting scenes


even the actors don't know what that movie is about [Music] should i i wish i wrote that


i wish i loved the title but that movie's trash [Music] well it's oatmeal man it's good for you


uh so this time it is chris's choice and we're doing rocky ii is there a reason that we did number two


instead of one uh yeah so three or four yeah it's um


i had to say to say this so early when we talk about it but um i think it's my favorite one um granted


love like all the rockies with the exception of five like a big sylvester sloan fan big rocky fan actually like


rocky more than rambo as far as like i had to pick his characters okay and yeah i think


i don't know like sure i'm sure growing up like rocky four or even three the ones with more fights and where the


you know i guess dare i say more cartoon villain like bad guys


action movies yeah they turned into action movies a little bit which i still love three and four but like those were probably my favorite growing up but as i


got older and started really dissecting movies and just kind of looking at stuff to for whatever reason became my my


favorite i say whatever reason we can get into that but there it is i said it


well later that's the that's the phrase i uh i was very familiar with like


mr t and the russian and all that but for some reason either i hadn't watched rocky one and two in forever


or maybe never even saw rocky ii i i don't remember because i watched it


and i was trying to remember when i'd last seen it and i i couldn't so well i know i had never seen rocky nor


rocky too because oh wow okay yeah and you guys watched them both which i thought yeah


i wanted to because of course i think i should have gone back and watched alien before we watched the second aliens but


yeah no yeah we went and watched both of them and i will say i i did love


rocky's character yeah i love his character i uh i was


amazed at how much because because as soon as it came on i'm like oh my god nineteen seventies i don't think


right yeah uh and i was like okay i'll get through this but i was amazed


at how much i was into it and then i i remembered well that's the rocky magic like


right yeah i you know i knew the later rocky movies and as a as a kid


watching them and and remembering how emotional you know especially with the music cued right and i was like okay


well you know these are:


was right you know crying in all the right places and all that i was even even like rocky too i was like yeah it's


every one of them is it gets you man you know from what i've i've seen especially watching rocky ii i think i


watched it four or five times this month nice that's how i do my research is i just watch the movie and absorb it


this one i guess to me follows such the stereotypical story arc like


it's easy to digest it pulls your heart strings you cheer in the right moments you cry in the right moments


it i enjoy it every time i've seen it but like you said growing up it was rocky


iii rocky yeah i mean three fights the most and the yeah i became an adult


and then watched the first two and i was like these are completely different yeah styles of story and these resonate more


with me and i like it a lot more for different reasons if i want a good action movie or if i


want a good soundtrack to work out too it'd be rocky iv sure that's the only one i had ever seen


and i saw it in the movie theater and i don't remember why i went because i am not into fighting or boxing or anything


but i enjoyed i remember enjoying the movie but that is the only one i've ever seen before we watched one and two yeah


i think i saw mr t and russian i said i saw both of those in the theater nice which which


one was mr t in uh three three and then there is four the russian yeah yeah


what's what's the guy's name in five um tommy gunn is the character and i think tommy morrison was the actual


boxer or whatever which that's when they tried to bring it back down to earth after four they did but yeah it's just


it's a mess because like you really is yeah it's a man it's it's almost like the whole if you're too i compared to like the star wars holiday special it's


like that episode you don't talk about you know five really yeah it's just it's real bad like they even brought back the same


director uh that did the first one but like i feel like so i don't know i don't know someone i


heard this somewhere somebody said it or in conversation or whatever but like to me like the biggest problem with rocky 5


is like if you pull from tropic thunder like he went full [ __ ] yeah and like in rocky the rest of the rockies like


he's you know got like a relaxed brain as he says him too right but he's not full [ __ ] like he's still yeah like forrest


gump if forrest gump could fight to me like he's he's very humble he's you know humility yeah you know and he's even i


think he's even kind of funny right but in five like he's he's just so dumb and just so like stallone like dialed it up


to you know 11 or whatever and i feel like and that's on the director to me and stallone like the performance i feel like it's almost like he'd gone on and


done all these other things so successful that he almost like couldn't find his way back to rocky is what it


seems like he was trying to force it and that's what's amazing to me because that was only five years after rocky iv yeah


years later in:


passed that he was able to find his way back because this performance in rockville boa fits with sure the other so like that's a much better movie it's


just weird that like he needed time to find in different circumstances you know that in late 80s 90s like that's when he


was super big and he's admitted like very vain very you know like he had


just you know stallone as a person right in his career and all that so i just think he had a hard time okay do you think was it right after he did


rhinestone or something why rhinestone yeah i just wanted to work it in or when was rhinestones early 80s


ladies because he was it was before he got i like that movie i've actually never seen


it never seen him anyhow yeah like he yeah went full [ __ ] and then so like


this guy who rocky's known for taking punches right and his you know as a boxer's defense is terrible right like


put your freaking hands up you know stop taking these right on the chain but that's what he's known for is a guy who can take a beating like two actually has


like one of my favorite lines in any of the in the whole series in any movie when um uh duke apollo's trainer's talking to


him and trying to convince him not to take the fight and he said he's all wrong for us and he says you know i saw you beat that man like no man's been


beat before and he kept coming after you like that's rocky right that's who he is so then in fact it gives this guy brain


damage so his reward for being this guy now he gets brain damage it's like they you can't take a superhero in a way


right and then like make him human like i guess i don't know you don't mean like it bugged me it was all


these they had to go back to the streets and return to the roots of photos so like the the way the story they came up with


for this which i guess just alone like it just felt too false and didn't didn't ring true storyline was


paulie after the fourth movie lost their money and they come back broke yeah so now he's broke and he's


got brain damage well he was already dumb he didn't need the brain damage but they're getting their brain damage because he can't fight anymore because


he takes on an apprentice right and trains tommy gunn which is what happened with creed and again they did that


better so i mean it's kind of nice that with time with rocky balboa and then the creeds he's able to kind of


fix five to tell the story he wanted to tell it just didn't work yeah my favorite line from the like one of my


favorite lines about rocky the russian i think says it's like hitting a piece of steel right you know right yeah


so i don't know so you can't take that you don't give a brain damage man like they wish they'd come up something different you know no i'd what the


the things i really liked about one and two is that he has so many you know throwaway lines or whatever right you


got brain damage i don't see anything yeah he's really upset


what is what do you say what are you gonna do with the move with the money for the fight oh i'm gonna buy polly a snow cone machine yeah yeah you like


snow cones right you know i'm gonna pay the rent and then uh yeah you got anything derogatory to


say about the champ yeah he's great yeah he's great it's like he's derogatory yeah it's almost like he was


it comes off like he's thinking about you know what can i say director but you can tell like he doesn't know what that word is oh yeah he's great the the mob guy wants


him to put his money in condominiums well i don't use him i don't use good stuff again yeah his


rocky's humor stallone tumor i think really works for this yeah no the uh even the the house it's the address


is uh 23 13. yeah that's those numbers almost add up to nine that's a good omen


you know yeah yeah uh i'd have to go back and check but i think those house numbers change like when he says that


there are house numbers but later on it's like 23 13.


because i saw it and i was like because the numbers he says add up to nine yeah


aren't the same numbers i believe as oh you know i always thought they were the same questions he says it and they do add up to nine


like and but he's you know he's dumb yeah almost adds up to nine yeah that's a good one you know well they do have to


nine dumbass you know but it's just what makes them you know yeah all right i'd have to go back and check but yeah all


right yeah but the thing about rocky is you love him so much that you're just cheering for him the whole time right


yeah well i didn't i hadn't seen these in a while and as the first one starts it's the end


i'm sorry the second one starts the first one's ending yeah and i totally forgot the first words that stallone


says of dialogue are to adrian yeah it's yeah you know the fight's ended she's


coming to embrace him and he says where's your hat yeah yeah yeah then she goes i love you oh i love


you too yeah well sherry saw that and she's like she lost her hat and i don't know if that was i don't know if that was planned or not yeah right she looked


back yeah i know nice yeah it took me off guard several times


i was like oh that's a funny line so so endearing of his character uh talking


about that scene like so you have it's the ending of rocky one but again i might have to go back and watch but is


there additional like overdub dialogue in that opening scene of rocky 2 that wasn't necessarily in


because i don't remember them talking as much like him and adrian no him and apollo oh no


the hot the ambulance scene no i'm talking when they're in the ring oh in the ring fighting yeah uh cause i


didn't when i watched the beginning i thought the same thing you're talking about you know you're going down and that way and


all that they're when they're tussling and it's there's no there'll be no rematch that i don't want one i i think that's in there


but it seems like there was more taunting like you're going down and i don't know i still was


i'd have to go back and look at it i mean i thought it was the same but i know sometimes he'll recut the stuff a little


bit you know because he does that like you're saying does that in all the movies and i'd kind of in a way almost


forgot that like start it up i'm like oh yeah these are you know this and like back of the future like plays the yeah into the first one to kind of get


you in the mood right and the he just he recently had a recut of rocky iv um and he released it in theaters you know like


one day or something back in november i guess of last year and so we went and saw it because i was curious to see


how he'd recut it and actually i heard there was like 40 minutes of new footage so i thought he had added 40 minutes maybe somebody like you know two and a


half two and a half hour plus movie it's really the same length he just cut out so much and and re-edit it a lot but


it kind of it plays a lot yeah it cut out the robot yeah but it plays three and actually to your point we're talking


about earlier it feels a lot better it feels less like this 80s cheesy deal and and you know it feels more like the


first two but anyhow like he played the beginning of three and i'm pretty sure he put more of three in there than what


was originally in there but it again like it it's a i don't call it a trick but a tool that works that gets you into


the the the mood for the you know the movie you're about to see definitely got me in the mood because if you the movie


starts basically at the hospital it's slow slow slow so there's not a fight again until the end sure so watching


that at the beginning you get riled up okay i'm in for this ride and then okay it's gonna be a long movie yeah


that was that was stacey's biggest complaint was uh just how slow it is and how you know she says it's better than


one but it's still it's slow and it drags and to me it like i guess i can understand that but like i guess


like i love the story and love rocky so much that i'll watch him read the newspaper i mean like it doesn't bother me what he's doing like i i really like


the aspect that they show him trying to live a normal life right right he's retired now he tries to


go get you know he buys a house he buys a car tries to get a job right and


with a ninth a ninth you know grade education you know um well i'd like to you know like uh make money sitting down


over there like you're doing you know i mean just and it's to me it's it's all like theme i didn't have like a no one


specifically stated it yeah what i wrote down but about that he i feel like he kind of plays with this thing throughout


the whole series like he actually vocalizes it in rocky balboa fighters fight yeah and then even m4 where


apollo's like you know they had this big discussion about you know you know rocky says we can't fight


anymore we're turning into regular people and then apollo's like no you can't just turn it off and on like some radio you know we're we're warriors


we're fighters so i feel like that's kind of the theme he was kind of playing with here is rocky is a boxer is a fighter he can't


go on and do this he hasn't he even says it one point i don't know anything else right right i i actually because i was


struggling with the theme and i and i think i've found something we'll talk about in a second cool we


need to talk about box office and stuff real quick does anybody i don't have it pulled up i can pull it up yeah i've got it so


it was a budget was seven million and it made 200 million like uh worldwide and i think like 80 something here yeah it's


obviously you know a tremendous a big hit it's a sequel so i mean it you know what year was that 19-inch came out june




you were asking about there you go yes uh so it cost 200 million and made seven


million yeah right well uh whatever and most of that went to dolly but um


yeah uh rotten tomatoes uh critics have it at seventy-two percent and audiences have it eighty-two percent yeah huh and


something just pretty good but i would expect it more yeah same hairs little disappointed but you know got the rose-colored glasses on you know now


yeah still owen wrote and directed this one correct he wrote all of them including the abysmal five but he


directed two through uh six okay now excuse me two through


four and then rocky mobile which is six the john g alvinson did this one and then five that guy also


did like karate kid and he did some some other like he this underdog rousing sports story is kind of yeah


sure did he was he i know it was at least nominated for best screenplay rocky one did he win for that one or was


it just nominated i think he won for a screenplay yeah screenplay yeah okay i wanted to say that yeah yeah


they didn't want i read somewhere that they didn't want stallone to direct and he wasn't going to release rocky rights


to him this one yeah this one rocky yeah the original guy was making something else uh oh saturday night fever which is


interesting because stallone ends up directing staying alive the sequel oh i didn't know that yeah but yeah he was doing that so he couldn't and then yeah


sloane wanted to want to direct it and basically you know muscle his way in and i think the studios since the first one


was so well received they kind of caved a little bit because i think what i'd read was he had only directed paradise


alley at this point stallone had which was not a hit and a success so yeah i don't think i've


ever even seen it but you know so again uh so much of i felt like this is probably part of it


and to me probably white works so well is so there's so many parallels with the rocky story that like parallels with his


actual life yeah and just you know being the underdog and and convincing people to you know give him a shot the uh


sherry wanted me to be careful here and i don't want to offend any of our philadelphia listeners


[Laughter] yeah but:


that like if i was living in:


minute trying to get out of there well i mean i also think like where he lives right i mean yeah he gets a nicer


house but like you know like it's it's you know i guess it was all inner cities at the time new york and you know like


uh i mean i felt like they showed a lot of the you know the i don't want to say slummier parts but


well i i mean it it looks like rocket doesn't have a lot of money it looked from the 70s when we were


watching it however we watched uh someone go around and show got on


tape yeah youtuber we follow you yeah watch the filming locations


and it looks the same yeah yeah this was in some places like where he lived we


did all the films where he moved right where the gym was


and he's he even said he was approached by several people who either opened the door or


told them to get out of the neighborhood all right shitty types you know like i still would like to visit


the stairs the statue and things like that that's right i don't care to see the yeah


i don't care to see his houses but and then along the river where they were showing where yeah he um ran


in one movie it wasn't one and two yeah but you know yeah we went a while ago


like late unfortunately like i'd like to go again um just because late was so young he doesn't remember but yeah we went and saw the hesitate it's called


the rocky steps it's a library actually up at the top oh i wondered what that was and they showed in creed 2 i think


the statue was actually i don't remember what year but it was at the top and they moved it it's down at the bottom of the steps like to the right yeah but up


there if you go to the front where the steps were excuse me go over to the top of the steps where the statue is his um


his uh footprint is in cement up there at the top or whatever that's really cool yeah did you run up the stairs i


didn't and i should have you know it's one of those things i regret i was just like nah i don't want to do this and then yeah to immediately regret it


because everybody is doing that right i mean you see the steps it's hard not to fight the instinct i don't know how i


did it but yeah even on what is this got on top yeah the people he was filming and he


said here comes someone people were in the background i don't think i could make it up those steps right maybe that's what i was


worried about i don't know you know have my rocky moment than tripping paul yeah but uh knock your teeth out i'm not


going to eat though and bust this guy's teeth out anyhow it was really cool yeah all right so opening image so even


though it's the beginning for me even though it's the beginning of the end of the first one yeah i still chose that as


my opening image it was him in the in the ring bloodied but lost the decision he got his goal at the time he went the


distance but he because the the closing is obviously that he wins this time right yeah i just have uh opening image


rocky undaunted going the distance with apollo you know this that this is who rocky is you know oh and it's uh the


genres uh have his golden fleece because you know i didn't even i didn't even uh do the genre this time so i'm the one


that didn't do what is golden fleece that's the the journey the road and the like most of like the way blake center


does is pretty much like all sports movies or golden flowers because there's a prize at the end right yeah yeah wrote a team and a prize and so yeah i think


that yeah that's probably it rocky's got his team paulie mickey adrian and then yeah the prize is the title and the road


is the the training journey to get there yeah i completely forgot but that's probably right because yeah if most sports movies fall into that then yeah


he calls it a sports fleece i guess is yeah kind of a sub genre of golden fleece


the star wars is a golden police and like saving private ryan the golden fleece like any kind of uh


a lot of times the prize is even what they call a mcguffin like it doesn't really matter thing to get so the mighty ducks is a golden fleece


yep all right we'll review that later then there you go yeah so the setup that i i found


like james had mentioned that he he it does follow a storage i think some of the


beats are late like kind of way late but that's what i think that's what you get with a rocky


movie though because you know what's coming at the end but that's always the last 30 minutes of the movie right so right so for setup and i


i do have some thoughts about theme because i struggled with that until a certain image came up anyway the setup


apollo wants a rematch rocky says he's officially retired uh and then we talked about this already but


even in this scene there's just some very cool lines brain damage i don't see any you know rocky what do you think


about you know the fight or whatever i don't know i think i maybe should have stayed in school i just i love these exchanges right i


mean and it makes you instantly love him right i just totally um how do you feel rocky oh very


handsome i just uh now i did notice


there's a it just made me think of another exchange i didn't write it down but uh when he's after he's kind of bandaged up


and like half his face is covered in bandages and he's laying in the hospital bed he's talking to paulie and he's a


you know how's my face look polly goes i wouldn't want it well there's uh


at the end when when he's in the room with with apollo uh apollo apollo's taunting him and


and uh uh mickey says don't let it bother your kid and he says would it bother you


right right yeah i mean you know he still looks bad


now i did notice that that very early on there's like three people that immediately want something from him like


he's so he's interesting he's gone the distance with you know so a a job an autograph and


endorsements paulie instantly wants him to get him a job with his old boss


right yeah the guy is hounding him about endorsements and the nurse autograph yeah and then tony wants him


to invest in his condominiums and then the nurse wants an autograph so like people he hadn't even won but obviously he's


got something to write in and and immediately people are going to start wanting something from him that's the first time i caught that was i guess the


last time i watched it was the nurse was can you sign this to my son you know whatever my good friend charlie


or whatever because he makes you know that i don't even know him makes a crack about it yeah i was like man yeah like you said paulie asking for the job the


nerd it's like everybody wants something from him right he's just rocky yeah i feel like


the same guy before the fight in the first movie right yeah i do think on that i think he has a flat arc i think


he's the same character the whole time i don't think he changes right yeah uh as far as this movie


yes yeah maybe all of them but yeah i think you know yeah he's a flat arc for sure i think he changes the people around him


yeah and we can talk about if that could be developed better right i don't know i


do you feel differently well i mean the opening image is undaunted because it's his heart right


like this is uh and that's and at the end that that heart that that on


ability to be undaunted and not fall you know that that's what gets him to do


yeah so i i think flat arcana and i think yeah i think that he stays the same and it and it allows him to


to win you know because he technically he got a split decision enough like technically he won that fight according to some of the


judges yeah the first one yeah he did not lose and that's what ada at apollo may not beat him but i got the decision but i


didn't beat him right you're right right yeah all right so the setup and then there's a lot of i guess a lot of setup


because he he begins he marries adrian uh he takes her to the zoo to ask her to marry him yeah which is


interesting yeah well the first there's others a couple things about that because polly was saying you take retards to the zoo right it wasn't


paulie it was one of gazo's uh oh oh yeah henchmen or whatever driver yeah she's not [ __ ] she's shy and then


hey rocky you know what you do with retards you take them to the zoo yeah so i was like i'm gonna bust your face yeah


so i thought that was a little weird at first but i think there's a reason


for this okay and this is because because i knew stallone was a great writer


but you know does rocky have a theme yeah well you need to take a punch okay but there is there is a theme and you hinted


at it a fighter fights right and he'll he'll say later i never stopped asking you to be a woman


please don't stop asking me to be a man right okay so you got to be who you are but early on


there's an image okay and and definitely it plays later in in in later movies but


oh the tiger the tiger it's on his back on the jacket that he buys and then it's at the zoo in the cage at the zoo right yeah uh i


didn't think about that and never come yeah very very cool and he's no i'm the tiger yeah and the third one yeah well


you know i love tigers so and he's wearing this tiger jacket with the tiger on the back so what you're seeing is a


tiger in the cage and tigers don't belong in cages man you know oh very cool yeah pretty cool so as soon as i saw that i


said well that's the theme it's unspoken but stallone is no idiot he knew there's no way you have a tiger


or tiger on the jacket when he's doing the commercials oh they put him in a cage they put him in a cage and he's got tiger print on


with the club you know yeah and he's an occasion he's and and and he's done he can't perform the lines


mainly yeah which i looked at that damn card right like the way they spelled mainly like


that they spelled it right but it looks funny it looks like an eye like i can see why he said mainly you know yeah he


was there was no way he was going to do that successfully right right tiger print in the cage right so i'm like yeah


stella knows what he's very very cool nice i didn't notice those man uh he says he says he starts enjoying


the spoils of victory spending all this money new car house jewelry or whatever he even buys paulie to watch yes uh yeah


that he didn't thank him for yeah there's a good you know thank you for the job rocky


that's what i noticed in that first the the whole thing is everybody's taking advantage of it everybody except adrian


right she's oh you're retired she's holding him in the cage yeah she's emotionally and i'd forgotten


about the character of mickey but burgess meredith man oh man he was he is so good yeah


he's great he is like even to the point and not all of it


the bulk of it is him and is acting absolutely but they they they light him correctly with like he's in shape


and yeah it's a mess yeah even when rocky goes to see him right like he


the i love how the the key to the gym is in rocky's hat yeah like he takes his head off because in the first one the


combination to his locker is in his hat yeah yeah yeah but he rocky opens up the gym goes in there starts going off the


steps and it's late at night so mickey comes out like a bachelor who the hell is that you know just i'm ready to bat somebody's like i


did you say that he said i don't remember your new key nice i didn't catch that oh sorry i don't know what you're just


talking about mickey no no he is amazing so anyway but but but still uh rocky will even say


something and i believe that lines are chosen by the writer right okay sure because stallone says a couple of things


up during the commercial when they're in the cage and then what he's doing you gotta be punchy doing this in


front of my wife sure but he says uh the the guy says to him after he's pissed and wants to fire rocky will you


get out of the cage and i think that's the question of the movie will rocky get out of the cage and be rocky


nice uh and then and then that second commercial shoot he's like this this whole thing ain't right you know talking


about what you're talking about of course but on some level yeah he's telling the audience he's telling himself i am not where i need to be


right you know or even the audience i mean i don't think about them just now but obviously they didn't go pay their money and go see rocky 2 to


watch him do commercials right they want to see damn he almost beat apollo last time let's see if he can beat him this


yeah we all know what's coming yeah uh and but yeah so the commercial career is a


bus the regular job pursuit is bus you can't get a job nothing so this is all driving him he gets one and the meatpacker or whatever yeah


because he because he keeps trying to go over all these like office jobs that he doesn't have any skills for him they wound up firing him yeah they laid him


up interesting but i think that's important that he he didn't just go in a video adrian i did some interviews so it's not working i'm gonna go fight like


he actually held the job and if they hadn't laid him off how long would he have stayed in that cage to to your point you know what i mean it's


interesting you know what i didn't think about maybe that's some of the theme too like it's it's dead animals that he's


dealing with right it was cows instead it's meat right that that plays into the you know being


an animal in a cage and sure you know this is a dead-end job you're gonna end up just like this meat here yeah yeah


yeah maybe i don't know i noticed the thing though uh everything in rocky's life to him is normal he doesn't


understand why he can't box anymore yeah he doesn't understand i'm the same guy why can't i go back


right to the way it was before apollo i feel the same everybody else around me


has changed yeah and that's the frustrating thing that i noticed of he has to go just get a job and now he's


getting laid off he's too famous to be a boxer and he's too


nobody wants to touch him anymore right it's and and he's made this feel for him yeah he's promised to adrian right yeah yeah


right which is yeah and all he wants to do is continue to live the life he was like he knows he can beat apollo or at least you


know from he almost even before like he knows like you know man i almost did it before i want a second chance like him


he sure yeah and i think he knows how close he came yeah he knows that's the best thing he's ever


the only thing he's ever been good at and then as soon as he steps out of that ring it's all taken away from him right


and that's obviously that's not like yeah he has to lose the car he loses his job he doesn't lose the house right they're able to keep the house but


you know yeah it's you know tries to live a normal life and it doesn't work he loses his own i think he wants to


believe that he can do other things right oh for sure uh you know yeah because he got a shot way


late in life and yeah well big mickey says your career is over kid he says i i didn't have a career now i have one


tonight now i don't have you know yeah i love that scene where he does the finger thing and i see how you see nothing you


order cave down your whole face in your face yeah right he's like you know what do you think the champ would have done to you you know i don't hurt me bad no i


hurt you permanent yeah you know like i mean like i love those things like when you're talking about tears and stuff that scene gets me every time when he


he knows all right mickey just showed him smash you know slapped him in the face and


he has to you know kind of work at the gym he's like you really want them to see you carrying spit bug and stuff and he just i got to be around it yeah yeah


that gets me pulled the heart strings like majorly and that's that's what i mean is like i got to be around it yeah


and nobody will let him in yep that's that that pulled on me that was it was


tremendous uh at some point i guess adrian gets pregnant and then and then again one of these


what i consider a key phrase and i can't remember who he said it to might be talking to adrian do i want to be doing something i don't want to do


uh i don't remember the exact contents of that line maybe it's when he was working out in the basement i can't remember have to go back and look uh but


in any event he's talking to somebody and he's he's verbalizes this and nice so he's struggling like he wants to be


he wants to provide for adrian and all that and she said well we'll get by and he says well that's just it getting by i want to just give up i want to get by i


want you to have the things now you know right because in his mind a man provides his family yeah it's 70s yeah you know


and and also in the the interview um one of them the only interviewer says hey why don't you go once you try to go back


to boxing i heard you're a pretty good fighter like so there's even these hints of you're on the wrong path you know


right sure and again back to with james saying he's the only one that wants to go down this road again yeah [ __ ] that and apollo the guy that wants to fight


him where everybody else he's got no support you know yeah uh he says one more time i'm a fighter that's what i do so i'm assuming this is in that


conversation with adrian yeah at the bottom or whatever yeah yeah so we talked about the theme i do not i didn't


hear an early statement but i think that tiger i think the whole cage thing that's cool yeah you know that's really being who you're


supposed to be is a tiger supposed to be an occasion no he's not so i think and i think that's completely intentional so


that now we have rocky's world what do you have as your catalyst i don't want to say double bump but losing the job at the meet locker right


and then him going to well i guess that's it him losing the job and deciding i gotta go fight i tried doing this regular thing because to me his


break into two is going to see mickey okay yeah i'll uh it's early but it's because any


snyder doesn't talk about it a lot but it's in um joseph campbell and uh and vogler talked about the writer's journey


the hero's journey like a lot of times when they break into two they cross the threshold they don't always land on you


know solid ground and then they stumble and and can have like a a fall like right out of the gate i


guess right and i kind of feel like that's what happens here because he breaks you know breaks into jesus i'm gonna go fight right i can't do anything


else and immediately mickey tells me you know you can't you don't have the skills anymore yeah mickey the guy who was in


this corner and trained him doesn't support him right out of the gate right but his opinion never changes like rocky's like he still wants to fight and


well i'll just go i work at the gym right you know i got to be around it like he's still like i don't know what


he thought like i get it i gotta be around it but like did he think well mickey sees me carrying buckets maybe


he'll go all right okay let's train here so i don't know you know what i mean i think he just yeah i think he just had to because then after that he gets all


this harassment and all this stuff and you know that disrespect but he he still


wants to fight the whole time right and you really want him even though it's not rocky's character you really want him to


smash that guy's face you know this guy's talking all this [ __ ] is like which i guess that's part of it like you know that like all right if he gets mad


enough he's gonna knock this dude out and yeah so it's not worth it but but you have it later right because at


first my first instinct was that everything was later and i'm like all right well what if it's not because there's a lot in there because if the break into two is way late is that all


set up is that i'll debate is that all catalyst so i thought well let me write it down this way and it's going to see how it plays out yeah i have the


catalyst is with no other options rocky says he has to fight right yep uh the debate


is he promised adrian he could lose his eye mickey knows the danger and warns them off that scene at the top of the


stairs right gives him a job at the gym so at that point it's all debate too i i


think he's debated and decided okay well i can't fight i


nobody's going blind yeah you you know and then mickey slaps him or whatever so i think he's debating at this point and


i think at that point he's shown okay yeah i can't do it but i got to be around it so he's hauling spit buckets right yeah apollo is his double bump


because he's still pressing for a rematch and then and then rocky is sweeping the gym and he has the conversation with his old boss the mob


guy or whatever yeah remember that guy wrecked that remember that guy rock that's exactly it yeah uh and then he


goes home and i guess he has the conversation with adrian in the basement yeah i think no the the basement was


when he was laid off that might have been the conversation in the bedroom when he says


he's got to be a fighter i'm not asking you to not be a woman because right after that apollo does the the public call out yeah that's what


mickey sees on the tv but rocky's sitting there in his by the stairs with the dog watching he gets mad and goes up the stairs because he says i'm supposed


to be the conversation with adrian you're right i'm supposed to be a fighter uh i don't want you to do it that's all


i know this is the exchange you know she's i don't want you to do it's all i know don't ask me to stop being a man


slash beast tiger right i mean uh no you know tiger can't change its stripes


right yes absolutely so uh i have the break into two because then there's like uh there's a knock at the


door and it's mickey right yeah because mickey saw the commercial where apollo is taunting and it gets mad you


know and yeah mickey knocks on the door and the first thing he says i think we want to knock his block off absolutely out the door they go yeah


i'm nailing that as the second act i thought about that i did is that your second action my second act adrian there


on the stairs looking out as they go out the door right yeah the meanest mug look ever you know you son of a [ __ ] but


anyhow yeah um i was watching it i was like i think i know where the second act is so that was the door that was my


instinct but i guess i guess where i struggle is from the moment him going to see


mickey on the stairs right hey let's do this right and his i don't feel like he ever changes right he wants to do it the whole time


and he's just getting all these obstacles yeah you don't have the skills anymore kid his wife doesn't want him to so to me i have the mickey coming


because mickey turns him down and then changes his mind i have that as a false victory he's a midpoint apparently


finally he's in his corner yeah because i struggle with that too good argument he gets everything he thinks he wants


right but then he you know after that he starts training half-assed and yeah so you have a false victory


yeah that's interesting so mickey coming to get him was a false victory that's where i have it yeah it


makes sense to me too yeah both ways just and the part that i struggle with one it's so late if that's breaking the


two which yeah we've seen a lot of movies that are going to do that and then the just like


i said the his debate like is i don't feel like he's debating anymore like he's made up his mind he's he everybody


else around him he's made up his mind when he goes sees mickey at the top of the stairs correct but he walks down those stairs


having decided not to do it right defeated dejected i can't do it just you know i got it thanks mickey for letting


me haul spit buckets and and then then he's hauling spit boxes he's and he's not even training like he's just showing


guys how to snarl and hauling spit buckets and so i think at that point he's debated and decided


right yeah uh but then he has this conversation with adrian and so now he still sort of


changed his mind again oh i tried just being around it and that's not enough don't ask me not to do this


mickey sees mickey who is a fighter himself sees this and he's not going to take that let's knock


his block off absolutely so at that point i think he's decided so i think he's answered the call debating yes no yes i can do this no


okay i can't do it mickey says i can't do it yes let's go do it interesting yeah i mean so but i but i


do think that the beats are not uh i don't think they're crystal clear on all of them yeah crystal clear are on time


but but with rocky you always get set way back because you know when the fight comes rocky has to be


way back because he's got to overcome right the fight has to be him coming from last to first or whatever you know


he almost follows a hero's journey more than yeah than blake cerna because it's like one big ordeal you know yes and and


and to be fair we analyze these movies according to blake snyder but blake snyder was not


around correct correct uh when these movies were being written however story structure has many titles many


categories but essentially hero's journey and catboy are have different names for uh a lot of the


same stuff yeah a lot of the same stuff and and hero's journey will say you can rearrange them and all this stuff any way you want right uh snyder is a little


more a little more rigid so i think that you're probably right about the hero's journey


and that's why maybe i think they're late according to snyder whatever the fun and games fun


and games and rocky movies are always awesome starting off with the press conference uh


we what do you think about fighting at the the wherever it is the palladium or whatever i like it's about 10 minutes for my


house right right he seems pretty mad uh list of things he's going to buy anything derogatory


yeah he's great we talked about that or whatever and then the kentucky bright idiot you know


yeah chasing the chicken yeah yeah yeah why do you wear that that there's those sweats it brings me like it brings flies


i love these two man uh studying tapes coming up with a new strategy now now


this is at the end he's a south ball fights left-handed but mickey wants him to fight right-handed protectors is


better yeah which he does now does he ever switch in the fight because


he says i don't want to do tricks i'm gonna i think he does yeah when mickey like he says i don't want him no no tricks no tricks it's too late for that


or whatever yeah but then mickey still yells now now and i think he does okay all right because one one review i read


because he knocks him out with the left okay all right yeah okay so one review i said that he did


switch i wasn't able i don't know enough about boxing to tell whether he switched or not right uh but he did no tricks and


then i thought well does he not do it but then other reviewers said yeah he did do it and well it's interesting though too because like uh


e's um you know hit that back:


whatever he's doing it all with his left hand it's not his right if he's trained to be not a softball it should have been his


right i don't know i didn't understand what they were doing there learning to throw jab with a left hand yeah which is


the right the right-handed pose is it if you're jabbing with your arms you're dabbing with your left to set up


the right yeah okay so it's not wrong okay i don't know that southpaw was you hit with your left you jab with your legs


you hit with your right on a south paw you jab with your right you swing out yeah cause that's your big knockout


punches right then yeah it's my lack of knowledge i don't know i don't know


south pole was like you hit with your left but you're saying that that's the hand that leads out where most guys lead southpaw your right hand is out your


left is back protecting your face gotcha okay it's and it throws so if you were


to fight right-handed we would be mirroring each other and that's what's so challenging about it okay because our


generation run into each other our crosses will run into each other but as a south pole you throw more right-handed


jabs than left and you're going to power with your left yeah because like uh oh okay yeah yeah okay


so him knocking him out with a power left is switching back yeah i guess so yeah yeah yeah cause that because like


uh turned into a boxing podcast all of a sudden yeah right well i mean no that's not i i know nothing about them i could


totally be wrong i'm not a boxer well i misunderstood it yeah years and years ago shane and i


for for fitness took martial arts or whatever and there are uh stances right and even bruce lee you


know so you'll see him standing with a guard hand and and a yeah and i knew that so i guess yeah i


guess i just thought it was the and so like i don't know if it's because it's predominantly you know like right-handed


or whatever but a lot of the stances where you block with your left and you come in with your right you know whatever and so so i guess that's the


predominant style but i didn't know enough about boxing mechanics to be able to pick that up but some say this was i guess he did switch


then yeah it's like in baseball you got a left-handed pitcher right it's a left batter right batter it's


there's a lot more to just throw in punches and boxing sure yeah


and i i loved mickey i just love mickey but you know you get goosebumps when mickey's like


speed speed speed you know it's just oh yeah well at the beginning though during their training he's half-assing it


rocky's half-assed you're training it like a bomb well it's because of adrian right yeah sure he's


not supporting him she's not yes he's working at the pet shop across the street still yeah not


yeah no not into it yeah he is half-assing attorney because his heart's not into it yeah even though he got what


he wanted which i think is working well i call it a false defeat yeah well he he's bad guys closing in


too right because they cut with his half-assing with apollo like over here right yeah um yeah you just give me another


one he's knocking out his yeah sparring partners left and right and he does not give a [ __ ] just give me another one i'm the best i'm the i'm the


best women love you yeah he's the tiger but but if adrian doesn't approve that's


robbing him of all his joy for correct you know one more line from the chicken scene why do i gotta chase chicken first


because i said so right right faster than greased lightning yeah yeah


uh his heart is not in it not on board adrian is working on on his


mind you know obviously 500 times hit the bag and he's like what was that seven or eight you know which one was


that yeah all right like you said apollo looking good rocky has no spirit slower and


slower and it's interesting because mickey will stay here trying to to


encourage him you'll be you'll be you know eating lightning and crap and thunder you'll be the beast you know we'll have


to put you in a cage kid again okay this time you know yeah because you're so but again a reference yeah so


i remembered was the the eating lighting and crapping yeah yeah


all right so here here's where we're differing a little bit on the structure okay so adrian


uh which to your point all of that feels like funny games how can it not you know chasing a damn chicken right right i


think that's fun and games and i think the midpoint is you have a false victory earlier on i have it as a false defeat


uh because adrian has gone down yep and mickey is turning his back on him you're a bum don't you come back here if you


you know so he's i think he's i think it's a false defeat uh the


midpoint is adrian going down because then we're going to start talking about the dark knight of the soul and the bad


guys closing in and so i have the midpoint as the false defeat with adrian and coma and mickey almost seemingly


turning his back on him and then the all is lost which has to now has to be a


false victory right well adrian still hasn't woken up but the all is lost i have a false victory is mickey is now


back on his side you're you're a hell of a kid a lot more than than the bum kid you know right i'm only


going to say this once uh and then i'm going to say it no more but if you just want to sit here and throw it away well i'll throw it away with you and every


other i'm about to cry every other scene up to the point of breaking the three mickey is sitting right there with him


you know yeah uh so that's where i have the the midpoint is the adrian going down and and i skipped all his loss but


well all's lost his false victory yeah the bad guys are adrian isn't waking up and and rocky's spirit is gone right so


these these are his bad guys his own uh demons uh all is lost i have mickey


back on his side uh and he stays with rocky the whole time and again i think these occurred fairly


quickly because the dark knight of the soul adrian's showing no signs of recovery rocky can't leave his her side


he actually says you know uh can you hear me adrian keep listening he's reading to her


and then and then adrian wakes up there's they see the baby together this is the dig down name the kid after the father uh and then she says one thing i


want you to do for me win and music keys and i'm crying like a baby and off we go right


you know yeah so i mean yeah i don't know interesting because yeah because i guess i have the the training you know kentucky fried idiot


training like a you know like a bum like mickey even says i liked you better when you were carrying spit buckets


right so yeah yeah you know it's hard man yeah so i have all that as bad guys close in and they dream still not


supporting apollo over here who's preparing to kill him you're right and then that always losses her going down


that's what i have it there's mickey yeah turns back on you know don't ever come back here whatever kicks him out of the


gym right and then her going see all that works because that is certainly like he's losing everything yeah right i


mean so i i can definitely see his feet you know yeah yeah dark nights them sitting around and then you're seeing with the church


because yeah because that's i think mickey staying with him and not turning his back as you know


part of his you know dark knight soul and dig down deep and still committing you know right no i i could see that i i


struggled with these the same here i mean my instinct was do it the way you did it


but i guess i was fighting against the the time climbing yeah yeah just


a really long debate and then like a whole bunch of beats all at the end you know you keep saying timing yeah what do you


mean i i've read a little bit about that like i'm sorry something's supposed to happen in the first yeah ten percent of


the movement schneider's so strict i guess on his form that like you're breaking into two like your setups one


to ten minutes right your catalyst is about 12 minutes in your breaking two happens by 25 minutes in for an hour and


a half moving for an hour and a half movie yeah this is a two-hour movie so one hour hour and 50 minutes right because he's got it at 110 on the the


final images oh my my dvd it was saying like 158 uh


now that's oh i started talking about hour-and-a-half movie for no no no yeah so rocky is so you push


those numbers out for a two-hour movie yeah a little bit that's what his debates are 12 minutes to his his


debates from page 12 to 24. so you know he gives you wiggle room there right so yes you need 12 minutes of debate sometimes you do sometimes you don't i


guess right it's not a completely rigid rigid structure it is a it's flexible


either there is a little bit there is but like by 25 like that's pretty set like like 30 minutes into the movie


first uh your character would be breaking into 30 minutes into the movie according to schneider yeah it should be a half hour for the first act half hour


for the third act an hour for the middle act yeah that makes sense but midpoints 5 minutes we're getting


off rocky just a little bit but if a movie doesn't have those things does it just feel wrong like if you have a mid


point that's well i think the mid 20 minutes into the movie and no not to me like it just depends i think well i


think it's a fine line if you are still into it and it's not you know i mean like if if some of the


beats are a little bit longer but they're still not blurry and they hit the way they're supposed to i think it's more forgiving but if it's


say the character development is lacking or the setup fails to set it up properly so you're not getting a clear character


arc or opening and closing image then it starts to fill well and chances are like if one of the beats is wrong than some of the others are and then now that


feels really wrong well like for the that's what i call it movie you know yeah okay the setup for rocky


okay so like the midpoint is not at the hour i i didn't write down the time but it's it's not at 59 minutes i i think most of the


center midpoint is just playing right i think most of the setup is still happening well into an hour and it should have


been over like 30 minutes before that but you ask yourself and it didn't affect me at all was i at


any time bored in that first hour i wasn't right that's where like somebody like my wife was you know so it's


interesting because it was but i don't think she finds rocky near as charming as as we do you know and and


and to my way of thinking after the midpoint you have the bad guys dark knight and and all is lost right


these were to me fairly short beats they you know yeah so


you had a long setup getting to the midpoint and then i think a rapid movement through the three beats


up to the third act because by the time these happen the movie is two-thirds over and we're talking about training in


the fight now yeah yeah i mean if you look at like so on mine like the breaking of three is her you know what


did you sign for me when you know yeah i had that as and then music like i said music kicks


in tears what are we waiting for yeah we're waiting for the music kicks in but that's his breaking if that to me that's his breaking the three but it's all the


training and the fight that's a lot you know right right well i know that is the back half of the second act the


third is i'm standing in the ring i was hoping he wouldn't show up yeah yeah right


yeah well that that technically could be true because he's he's storming the castle at that point yeah uh oh you mean the training and stuff well the fight is


storming the castle yeah so training's still fun and games to me because even when he's training the right


properly with the music going and if you'll notice i guess the directing style or whatever it's a lot brighter


rocky's wearing tighter fitting clothes he got rid of the holy sweaters and stuff and he's bouncing around with the


logs yeah it's just a lot more upbeat more upbeat right it's fun


it's like yeah we're gonna go kick some ass right yeah so so i have the the the act breaks


it's interesting i just thought of it here but you know act two i think we should knock his block off act three


what are we waiting for yeah right but i do think there's one thing i've noticed as we started doing this podcast


and i kind of write them down as they occur to me when i watch them is there's a lot of you know i feel like you picked up on


visual cues of going into the next act you know going through doorways and different stuff there's a lot of dialogue cues too yeah absolutely going


into you know different different breaks yeah no absolutely uh and then i you


know what are you waiting for and then of course this is what you get with rocky i wrote down the words awesome montage yes you know i think stallone


taught the world how to do them oh man for sure you know uh and i wrote down these movies always get me stallone made us love rocky so


much that we're always rooting for him i cry every time that's you know catches the chicken speed speed speed i just i love yes


but it was it was such a good contrast from the previous uh montage scenes of him just hitting


the bag screwing up and just hitting the now this you're like yeah he's doing it he's he was struggling so much before


and now he's kicking ass everybody's in this corner too like so obviously adrian woke up says win yeah mickey's back on


board right which i guess you know since start training you know or he told him get the hell out of the gym


he didn't leave him but the whole city too he's running all the kids and i think they i mean you know they cut to


apollo like after all that after the big moment of he's on the steps yeah these kids look like they've got apollo alone


yeah right no no this is um and apollo's wife never supported him you know and you know trainers said let


it go like nobody's supporting well it's uh it's uh i actually wrote down


because it's definitely i think the tiger thing but it's it's humility versus pride right apollo it's all about


adrian uh rocky's doing this for his family right yeah apollo is doing this


because of his pride sure and that's why he has to lose right yeah he's got it and later on of course we know


he falls victim to this pride like fatally right you know when he yep yeah yeah cue the music and the tears that's


what it would so the fight always the underdog but with the heart of the tiger i think it's funny that he's almost late to the


his match like he's making his thoughts and i need to bless you in case i get beat up real bad you know maybe it wasn't so much right


you know i think mickey was ready to kill him when he got yeah he's in there pacing and what the hell are you doing we got a fight to do


you like this rope it's nice yeah it's better than last year's uh i remember the broken leg yeah he said uh they're standing there


and you know rocky uh hey nick just so you know i'm gonna try real hard for you tonight okay thanks kid


it's like he's oh my god you look surprised i didn't think it'd show up


yeah i'm gonna be real trying wrong for you thanks i was hoping he wouldn't show would have bothered you he's still upset


right you know uh and then i guess you know apollo says he's going down and you know i'm standing i'm still standing there


you know still standing here yeah yeah because i guess creed apollo at some point said i'm gonna knock him out i'm


not gonna go for a technical victory i'm going to knock him out which yeah because he had the match one points wise


all he had to do was yeah wait the announcer say that i think that's one thing that sloan does really well too in all the rocky movies is he has the


announcers their dialogue helps with the the fight yeah terry another round i know that's what they're


doing but yeah like it just even talks about not just the like you said another round of a just so


you know who's i'm obviously there's visually you see rocky get beaten up but just the how are these two guys standing or just


like i don't know guys be prepared for world war iii these guys have just gone through hell right


yeah it's like you could just read their commentary and understand how the fight goes like without visuals yeah yeah


because a lot of people would you know listen on radio i know but like he didn't have to put that in the script no no no it's absolutely


yeah so then then the fight you know and that's where it comes back the southpaw thing if it throws creed off because he


was ready to knock his block off yeah yeah he says it didn't rosa i would think it hurt ball at him yeah does the


change up or switch yeah duke ask him do the change up or switch you know no i didn't affect nothing man like he's


not willing to admit any weakness or whatever but even yeah yeah duke was wanting him to stay away and


there's some uh some cool lines there that i didn't rise until later but uh duke calls uh rocky dangerous


to apollo this man's dangerous and apollo immediately goes oh i'm dangerous yeah yeah later in creed two


rocky's trying to convince adonis not to fight uh drago's son yeah and he's dangerous and then donna said i'm


dangerous and then he ends up losing right yeah and then later like there's called back even more for the final fight rocky tells you know adonis you're


dangerous that's really cool that yeah one stone remembered all the dialogue all those years you know did you go back and watch them and they just remember


yeah i don't know but it's really cool just all the things dialogue callbacks and and uh stone has


always been an enigma to me because you get an impression of stallone from rocky yeah and


he was injured at birth and so he has this slur and it's because


of a pinched nerve but man so you think oh stallone he's you know he's lame brain you know he's a lazy bro


what is it a slow brain what does it got like a relaxed brain black spring yeah so you think sloane does but but but he he can


he knows story and he can write and it's just it's always and i know i shouldn't be surprised but it's always sort of weird for me to


think of rocky balboa sitting down and writing an academy award winning script


and i know that's not fair but that's that's the power of his character in acting too i guess you know that you yeah to me like if you look at him in


other movies like uh like get carter um or even uh tango and cash yeah like


to me i hate to call it sophisticated but like the no there's not


relaxed brain stuff in there you know what i mean yeah good color is real good i like that movie


yeah i like a git card a lot too i'm a fan of tango and cash myself yeah right


yeah i got that one on dvd oh tonight yeah trading punches both fall but the man


with the heart stands up final image we did it you know well and also something that struck me that you


know i've seen this many thousand times but he's sitting there and he's you know it's holding his belt and he says with


the exception of my kid being born it's the greatest night of my life yeah and they cut to adrian like i feel like


to me like what i got over watching this time is she finally understood what that meant to her yeah i mean you see her because she was kind of


like she said keeping the tiger in the cage and she finally understood you know to me like and it's all like she doesn't have any dialogue


you just see it on her face yeah like she her her acting in this whole series is really really good no no


with that with minimal dialogue like she just does a lot of you know good stuff well just her reactions to him and can


you drive i mean that's from dialogue but i'm i'm i'm one of the best there was all right and i'll drive you crazy


give me a chance yeah but just like she knew she'd seen this dude walker where she knew he couldn't [ __ ] drive right


and and i don't know if it's i don't know if it's ever really brought out but at some point she must have realized


that i fell in love with rocky and that's who he is i didn't fall in love with a guy who i didn't fall in love with the meat packer yeah okay yes okay


i don't want him to fight because he get hurt but part of who rocky is is the fighter and that's part that i love


because that's who he is and i think she realizes well this is the guy i love and this is who he is i gotta if i love him i gotta let


him be yeah who he is or whatever yeah for sure yeah there's a there's a weird fact about the the fight scene


uh with adrian and paulie at the house or whatever that was filmed


way later really yeah they never imposed that into the fight just for the emotional aspect yeah yeah yeah you know


i read that she was making something else and couldn't be at the arena like when they when they had that oh really when they had rented it out or whatever


so that sloan's like all right well we'll just come up with some stuff but the doctor says she's got to stay at the house yeah i i did i


i did that's the only point where i thought it was a little weak because it sounded like okay you're reminding me that she


can't be there because i know she's going to be there right right you know whatever it's the only time uh adrian


and paulie aren't ringside yeah yeah right yeah so yeah it's just you're telling me she can't be there got it


yeah yeah but you're there with her as she's crying and over shopping and oh my god


it never bothered me before but yeah watching and learning the the backstory i guess behind it was interesting but yeah it didn't didn't bother me before


and then they and then he holds up the well i don't know if they we got to that part yet about the fight the end of the


fight he wins knocks out holds up the belt yo adrian i did


yeah so yeah i think a lot of people think it's from the first one but it's not it's from that one because he didn't win the first time right right i mean he


still did it in the first one he's yelling for adrian yeah but i think a lot of people think you know adrian


yeah uh yeah so you got so there are your images right uh the two fights right yep um


and the difference is you know he he showed the world what they only thought before right so i


mean yeah yeah and he proved to apollo that he got feet soundly yeah yeah


yeah when does when does him and apollo become friends like in the third one yeah yeah because when he loses to mr t


apollo offers to to train him because mickey dies yeah yeah like in his i guess


mid 80s early 80s actually i guess it's as cheesy as it can kind of feel with three like we talked about that earlier that


three and four kind of start to go down a certain path as far as story like and the continuation of the series like


there's a lot of really good beats to me that makes sense in three mickey dies apollo you know comes in and trains him


and because and and brings rocky back and even trains up his style and like finally shows him look man you gotta stop taking


these punches on the face you gotta have some defense and move oh yeah like it sounds like it's really good like i mean


like you should have fired mickey years ago yeah because i remember rocking another shot to the face kid yeah for me i


remember rocky being just cut and fast like you know being just didn't you didn't have until three yeah so because i definitely and


again i think it's where stallone's career started to take off too and became this he got more kickers and rainbow rambo he's cut and rainbow two


he's more good did he have to stand on his head so he didn't pass out this is a story i think that's rocky four yeah yeah yeah rocky iii he doesn't remember


filming i'm three i'm sorry you're right it's three i said four but it's three he was on such a restricted diet two


percent body fat or some [ __ ] and yeah and he said years later he's like you can't maintain that that was nuts you know now that he's older him but


yeah and he was how much did he weigh at that point in rocky three i think it was like 160


wasn't that low i know in the movie they say it's like 180 something because he goes from 200 pounds to like well he's like 200 because


but he was like 220. i was surprised that apollo outweighed


salon is short i've heard is that right yeah i don't know i have eight five nine yeah i must say i don't think he's yeah he's shorter which speaks to the if he's


160 you know it doesn't sound as small as it is mike tyson mike tyson's not


gigantically tall yeah he's a shorter guy too 220 but either way and i think schwarzenegger's six foot or you know so


but he always seemed taller he always said like seven foot growing up and as i got older so he's not that you know as


tall as i thought he was oh well all right yeah this was oh i got to do the pass recommend yep consider


pass recommend uh it's rocky man yeah i mean dig in you know i


i recommend it i had i grew up on three and four and five


not five three and four the the two i remember are mr t and the russian and i saw this in the theater


right uh you know i probably i know i didn't see one and two in the theater and i was really


hard-pressed to remember ever seeing it uh but i was totally on board man with one and two and i was very surprised by


that as old and as they were you know and and kind of different like james was saying from yeah what they became but i


was totally i i am a sucker for rocky manage you know


i'm the same way like i love it love the whole series apart from five i'll watch


five if i'm just watching all of them i have a hard time but i skip it man yeah well this one rocky two


when i watched it for the third fourth and fifth time this month i found myself skipping


through all the adrian scenes cause she just she she pulled me down man i was she bummed me out yeah the later ones no


in there oh she's like i've never been a big fan of adrian


it's like adrian it's like the heart of the series was they said the same thing that you're saying she rubbed her down wrong but


maybe that's just talia shire is that her name telly yeah sounds right you know she's an excellent actress


so it's just me but the movies are great totally watch them all go for it yeah


same here it's definitely a um i recommend yeah obviously big rocky fan


i don't know which you know what it says but i probably didn't see a rocky movie in the theater till rocky papua really


yeah i don't think i saw pretty sure i didn't see five and then yeah the others i must have you know watched them on


on tape or tv or whatever when they it's interesting i can remember which star wars movie i saw first but i can't remember which rocky movie i saw first


but it had to have been like three or four or something those would have been you know the ones you know that like you said as a kid you know you had the most


action and move the quickest i was like why do they call this movie rocky four right what happened to the rest of them


yeah i don't know not even i think i was aware of them but i i didn't ever seek them out but then i


mean i guess there was rental places at that point sure uh but certainly no streaming and this it was all vhs so i i


probably didn't seek him out or whatever yeah but the 80s it became this you know big


the big blockbuster movies coming out and and rocky three and four were you know you right you went and saw it i


remember seeing remo in the theater i probably saw more movies in the 80s in the theater than i ever have since sure you know just because it was and i think


and we've talked about this before but i think you know the 80s produced probably the best the highest quality of movies


ever in my opinion there's still good movies out but i think it's waning for sure like just the the variety and the


yeah yeah especially the original content oh my god i mean that it's it's helping now with all the streamers and stuff but it's all going it doesn't


matter the format it used to bother me like i remember directed to you know direct to dvd or tv used to be the kind


of this where actors careers go to dive but it's you know that's turning around now i mean there's you know all these


actors that i don't want to be a [ __ ] superhero they they go and find some original content on some streamer somewhere yeah yeah yeah like right now


we're getting so many stories it's really cool but anyhow as far as movies i feel like the 80s was a special time


yeah sure absolutely sure well uh we've had the dvds


the rocky dvds for a long time have we not oh yeah long time ago okay and i've never


really said okay well let's sit down and watch them now that we you know had no i'd hate to


say had to but we were you know chose or chris chose it's okay if they had two


okay we had to watch and i said well i've got to watch rocky because i've never seen it


it kept my attention i was surprised i enjoyed them i want to watch now the rest of them to


follow up yeah i won't go back and watch them again probably but like i said i think i


think the only one i'd ever seen was four because i do remember


that whole storyline with he fought a russian yeah yeah yeah and i don't i


will break him over yeah i don't remember mr t so you said that was three yeah i think so that's that's the first


one yeah so yeah c was big then right i mean it's his first movie but yeah i think he'd done eighteen


it was mr t cereal that was mystery everything yeah and i feel like even the way he's stalling with the role for for his characters is just good stuff like


at one point now i have to go back and he looks like a villain looks like yeah no he's pacing back and forth in the locker room


or whatever and the press is you know you know but i mean give us a statement sorry go ahead no i'm just saying i


i really did like the character of rocky and i liked adrian


yeah i thought it was a sweet story i mean it was a love story with boxing to me


so sure yeah two simple people trying to make their way in the world you know i mean yeah yeah so i


really like rocky i mean the character yeah rocky makes he makes you absolutely


love him and so you're on board for anything he does you know right yeah yeah you know cece wouldn't have gone for


she's seen rocky one but she wouldn't have gone for watching one and two like you guys did but yeah just i don't just think about there's some good moments in


in one i guess earlier coming about you know why two over one um yeah i thought about one but


again i just i think two is my favorite but there's some good moments in there when in one after the press conference and one and


apollo was uh saying all this shitty stuff about rocky and making fun of him and stuff and then i think i think it's paulie


that asked him hey rocco you're gonna let him talk to you oh you don't bother me now don't bother me none yeah and then he goes outside after the press


conference he's leaving the house and it's just him and adrian like on the porch and he has this moment it's like one of my favorite moments in the whole movie


he goes uh you know i said that stuff doesn't bother me none yeah it does and then he walks off like i love that


moment yeah because you know he acts tough and stuff but yeah i mean he's a big he's all heart right so and and that's


the thing that makes you love him but it's also the thing that gets him to stand up when you know apollo


right yeah that's good stuff man all right all righty so that's rocky two


good deal we're out what you're seeing is a tiger in the cage and tigers don't belong in cages man you know and i was


like okay i'll get through this but i was amazed these are completely different


styles of story okay do you think was it right after he did rhinestone or something


what did you run up the stairs i didn't and i should have


had my rocky moment than tripping paul but that's what i think that's what you get with a rocky movie though because


yeah the meanest mug look ever you know you son of a [ __ ] but anyhow yeah you get goosebumps when mickey's like


speed speed speed you know i mean it was a love story with boxing to me


it gets you man

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About the Podcast

Fellowship Of The Reel
One movie review podcast to rule them all
A single movie is more powerful than a thousand realities...or something.
Come to Fellowship Of The Reel, a movie review podcast beyond the furthest reaches of your imagination.
Four movie fans meet to discuss, debate, and ultimately review movies of their own choosing.
One Movie Review Podcast To Rule Them All!

About your hosts

Philip McClimon

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Philip A. McClimon is an author who likes to write about the end of the world (post apocalyptic, Sci/Fi), mostly because he thinks the shopping would be awesome (No crowds, everything free). He likes heroes that are the strong, silent type and not necessarily male. By silent he means up until the time there is something snarky to say, usually before, during, and after doing something cool.

He writes Urban Fantasy under the name Billy Baltimore for no other reason than that he likes the name. Many of the same rules for his other stories apply to Billy’s, strong silent types, smart mouth, does cool stuff, but these stories take place in a made up town called Hemisphere and involve stuff you only ever hear about on late night conspiracy talk show podcasts, which are, if you think about it, pretty awesome too.

So, that's Phil. He's not strong, rarely silent, and isn't known for doing a lot of cool things.

But his characters are.

Sherry McClimon

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The wife of Philip McClimon. Probably all that needs to be said. She is responsible for his bad behavior not being worse than it is. She is concerned that her mother might listen.

James Harris

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James Harris is a tech guru and musician extraordinaire; he also loves movies. A pretty decent guy all around.

Chris Sapp

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Chris Sapp has been a friend for a lot of years and a writer for a lot more. An encyclopedic knowledge of story and movies, he can take you on a deep dive into script and screen. Another pretty decent guy, which are the only kind allowed around here.