Revisiting 'Rocky 2': A Dissection of Character and Narrative
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This podcast episode delves into the intricate examination of the film "Rocky II," elucidating its thematic depth and character development. The principal focus revolves around the inherent struggle of the protagonist, Rocky Balboa, as he grapples with the dichotomy of ambition and familial responsibility, ultimately desiring to reclaim his identity as a fighter. The discussion further explores the significance of the character Adrian, whose emotional influence serves as both a source of motivation and a constraint on Rocky's aspirations. Throughout the dialogue, we dissect pivotal scenes, revealing how they contribute to the overarching narrative of perseverance against adversity and the complexities of personal sacrifice. By the conclusion, we reflect on the enduring legacy of the Rocky franchise, affirming its place in cinematic history as a profound exploration of the human spirit.
The Fellowship Of The Reel reviews: ROCKY 2
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> An extensive examination of the cinematic classic, Rocky II, reveals a multifaceted narrative that encapsulates not only the quintessential underdog story but also the profound emotional journey of its titular character, Rocky Balboa. The discussion delves into the thematic exploration of perseverance and the inherent struggle between aspiration and reality, as Rocky transitions from a celebrated fighter to a man grappling with the consequences of his newfound fame. Throughout the episode, I and my fellow speakers dissect pivotal moments that define Rocky's character and highlight the evolution of his relationships, particularly with his wife, Adrian. As he navigates the pressures of societal expectations and personal ambition, we are drawn into the intricacies of his psyche, culminating in a climactic showdown with Apollo Creed that serves as a metaphor for self-discovery and redemption.
The analysis extends beyond mere plot points, as we explore the directorial choices and the narrative structure that contribute to the film's enduring legacy. The juxtaposition of Rocky's triumphs against his vulnerabilities underscores the film's emotional resonance, and our discourse reflects on the significance of the montage sequences that have become synonymous with the Rocky franchise. These moments not only showcase the physicality of training but also embody the essence of Rocky's indomitable spirit. In conclusion, our in-depth exploration of Rocky II serves as a testament to the film's ability to transcend the boxing genre, offering insights into the human condition and the relentless pursuit of one's dreams.
> The conversation surrounding Rocky II presents a rich tapestry of analysis that highlights the film's complex character dynamics and thematic depth. I engage with my co-hosts in a profound dialogue about the significance of character arcs, particularly the nuanced portrayal of Rocky Balboa as he confronts both internal and external conflicts. The episode meticulously unpacks the various narrative threads that weave through Rocky II, emphasizing the impact of Rocky's relationships, especially with his wife, Adrian, as they navigate the challenges of their evolving lives.
The exploration of Rocky's character is further enhanced by our reflections on the cultural context of the late 1970s, a time marked by socio-economic challenges that resonate with Rocky's own struggles. We analyze how the film reflects societal expectations of masculinity and the pressures of success, as Rocky grapples with his identity in a world that demands more from him than just physical prowess. The climactic rematch with Apollo serves not only as a culmination of his journey but also as a powerful statement about resilience and the human spirit's capacity to overcome adversity. Our thoughtful discourse on these themes invites listeners to engage with the film on a deeper level, appreciating its artistry and emotional weight.
> Our podcast episode on Rocky II engages with the film's narrative structure and thematic elements, offering listeners a compelling analysis of Rocky Balboa's journey from obscurity to prominence. I join my co-hosts in a detailed examination of the character's evolution, as well as the significance of his relationships, particularly with Adrian, who embodies both support and conflict in his life. We delve into the emotional stakes of the film, highlighting how Rocky's pursuit of a rematch with Apollo Creed serves as a catalyst for self-discovery.
Throughout the episode, we emphasize the film's exploration of themes such as ambition, love, and the struggle against societal expectations. Our discussion includes an analysis of the film's pacing and how it reflects Rocky's internal battles, culminating in a climactic fight that is as much about personal redemption as it is about athletic competition. The interplay between the emotional and physical aspects of the narrative is examined, revealing how Rocky II transcends the conventions of sports films to become a poignant exploration of the human experience. We invite listeners to reflect on their own journeys and the universal themes of resilience and hope that resonate throughout the film.
Takeaways:
- The podcast delves into the intricacies of film analysis, emphasizing the significance of studying movies on a mechanical level.
- We explore the notion that no filmmaker intends to create a poor film, yet the final product may deviate from initial intentions.
- The discussion highlights the rich character development of Rocky, showcasing the emotional depth embedded within the narrative framework.
- Listeners are encouraged to reflect on the thematic elements of perseverance and identity as they relate to Rocky's journey throughout the series.
Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcript
Are you recording this?
Speaker B:Studying a movie in the mechanical level, I think can really bring some revelation.
Speaker C:I believe that no one sets out to make a bad movie with the exception of.
Speaker D:On paper.
Speaker D:This should work.
Speaker B:This should work.
Speaker D:I just don't like it.
Speaker A:That's your own fault if you haven't seen it.
Speaker B:Way over budget.
Speaker B:Start cutting scenes.
Speaker B:Even the actors don't know what that movie is about.
Speaker B:Shit, I wish I wrote that.
Speaker C:Which I love the title, but that movie's trash.
Speaker B:Well, it's oatmeal, man.
Speaker B:It's good for you.
Speaker B:So this time it is Chris's choice and we're doing Rocky 2.
Speaker D:Is there a reason that we did number two instead of one?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Or three or four?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:I hesitate to say this so early when we talk about it, but I think it's my favorite one.
Speaker C:Granted love.
Speaker C:Like all the Rockies, with the exception of five.
Speaker C:Like a big Sylvester Stallone fan.
Speaker C:Big Rocky fan.
Speaker C:Actually like Rocky more than Rambo as far as, like, bad to pick his characters.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:Yeah, I think.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:Like.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker C:I'm sure.
Speaker C:Growing up, like Rocky 4.
Speaker C:Even three, the ones with more fights and where the.
Speaker C:Has, you know, I guess, dare I say, more cartoon villain, like bad guys, action movies.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:They turned action movies a little bit, which I still love 3 and 4, but, like, those are probably my favorite growing up.
Speaker C:But as I got older and started really dissecting movies and just kind of looking at stuff to two, for whatever reason, became my.
Speaker C:My favorite.
Speaker C:I say whatever reason.
Speaker C:We can get into that.
Speaker C:But there it is.
Speaker C:I said it well later.
Speaker C:That's the.
Speaker B:That's the phrase.
Speaker B:Yeah, I.
Speaker B:I was very familiar with, like, Mr.
Speaker B:T and the Russian and all that, but for some reason, either I hadn't watched Rocky 1 and 2 in forever, or maybe never even saw Rocky 2.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I don't remember, because I watched it and I was trying to remember when I'd last seen it, and I couldn't, so.
Speaker A:Well, I know I had never seen Rocky nor Rocky too, because.
Speaker C:Well, okay.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And you guys watched them both, which.
Speaker A:I thought I wanted to, because of course, I think I should have gone back and watched Alien before we watched Second Aliens, but.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Yeah, we went and watched both of them.
Speaker A:And I will say I did love Rocky's character.
Speaker A:Yeah, I love his character.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I was amazed at how much because.
Speaker B: ame on, I'm like, oh, my God,: Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I was like, okay, I'll get through this.
Speaker B:But I was amazed at how much I was into it.
Speaker B:And then I remembered, well, that's the Rocky magic.
Speaker B:Like, Right.
Speaker B:You know, I knew the later Rocky movies, and as a.
Speaker B:As a kid watching them and remembering how emotional, you know, especially with the music cued.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B: ay, well, you know, these are: Speaker B:But I was totally, like, into it.
Speaker B:I couldn't.
Speaker B:I was right, you know, crying in all the right places and all that.
Speaker B:I was even.
Speaker B:Even, like, Rocky 2.
Speaker B:I was like, yeah, it's.
Speaker B:Every one of them is.
Speaker B:It gets you, man.
Speaker D:You know, from what I've.
Speaker D:I've seen, especially watching Rocky 2, I think I watched it four or five times this month.
Speaker C:Nice.
Speaker D:That's how I do my research, is I just watch the movie and absorb it.
Speaker D:This one, I guess, to me follows such the stereotypical story arc.
Speaker D:Like, it's easy to digest.
Speaker D:It pulls your heartstrings.
Speaker D:You cheer in the right moments, you cry in the right moments.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker D:I enjoy it every time I've seen it.
Speaker D:But like you said growing up, it was Rocky 3.
Speaker D:Rocky 4.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:He fights the most.
Speaker C:And the.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:I became.
Speaker D:And then watched the first two, and I was like, these are completely different.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:Styles of story, and these resonate more with me.
Speaker D:And I like it a lot more for different reasons.
Speaker D:If I want a good action movie or if I want a good soundtrack to work out to it, be Rocky for sure.
Speaker A:That's the only one I had ever seen, and I saw it in the movie theater, and I don't remember why I went, because I am not into fighting or boxing or anything, but I enjoyed.
Speaker A:I remember enjoying the movie, but that is the only one I've ever seen before we watched 1 and 2.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think I saw Mr.
Speaker B:T and the Russian.
Speaker B:I saw both of those in the theater.
Speaker C:Nice.
Speaker C:Which.
Speaker A:Which one was Mr.
Speaker A:T in three.
Speaker B:Three and then is for the Russian.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:Five.
Speaker D:What's.
Speaker D:What's the guy's name in five?
Speaker C:Tommy Gunn is the character.
Speaker C:I think Tommy Morrison was the actual boxer or whatever, which.
Speaker D:That's when they tried to bring it back down to earth after four or they did.
Speaker C:But, yeah, it's just.
Speaker C:It's a mess because, like, you.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's a mess.
Speaker C:It's almost like the whole.
Speaker C:If you're.
Speaker C:I compared to, like, the Star Wars Holiday special, it's like that episode you don't talk about five.
Speaker C:Really.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's just.
Speaker C:It's real bad.
Speaker C:Like, they even brought back the same director that did the first One.
Speaker C:But, like, I feel like.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker C:I don't.
Speaker C:Someone.
Speaker C:I heard this somewhere.
Speaker C:Somebody said it or in conversation or whatever.
Speaker C:But, like, to me, like, the biggest problem with Rocky 5 is, like, if you pull from Tropic Thunder, like, he went full retard.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And like in Rocky, the rest of the Rockies, like, he's, you know, got, like, a relaxed brain, as he says in two.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But he's not full retard.
Speaker C:Like, he's still like Forrest Gump, if Forrest Gump could fight.
Speaker C:To me, like, he's very humble.
Speaker C:He's, you know, humility, you know, and he's even.
Speaker C:I think he's even kind of funny, right?
Speaker C:But in five, like, he's.
Speaker C:He's just so dumb and just so.
Speaker C:Like, Stallone, like, dialed it up to, you know, 11 or whatever.
Speaker C:And I feel like.
Speaker C:And that's on the director, to me.
Speaker C:And Stallone, like, the performance.
Speaker C:I feel like it's almost like he'd gone on and done all these other things so successful that he almost, like, couldn't find his way back to Rocky is what it seems like he was trying to force it.
Speaker C:And that's what's amazing to me because that was only five years after Rocky 4.
Speaker C: years later, in: Speaker C:So, like, that's a much better movie.
Speaker C:It's just weird that, like, he needed time to find in different circumstances, you know, that and late 80s, 90s.
Speaker C:Like, that's when he was super big and he's admitted, like, very vain, very, you know, like, he had just, you know, Stallone as a person.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:In his career and all that.
Speaker C:So I just think he had a hard time.
Speaker A:Okay, do you think.
Speaker A:Was it right after he did Rhinestone or something?
Speaker C:Rhinestone, yeah.
Speaker B:Trying to work it in.
Speaker C:Or when was rhinestone?
Speaker C:Early 80s, late 80s.
Speaker C:Late 80s.
Speaker B:Because he was.
Speaker C:It was before he got.
Speaker A:I like that movie.
Speaker C:I've actually never seen it.
Speaker C:Never seen him anyhow.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like, he's.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Went full retard.
Speaker C:And then.
Speaker C:So, like, this guy who Rocky's known for taking punches, right?
Speaker C:And his, you know, as a boxer, his defense is terrible, Right?
Speaker C:Like, put your freaking hands up.
Speaker C:You know, stop taking these right on the chin.
Speaker C:But that's what he's known for, is a guy who can take a beating, like two actually has, like, one of my favorite lines in any of the.
Speaker C:In the whole series and in any movie when Duke Apollo's trainer's talking to him and trying to convince him not to take the fight.
Speaker C:And he said, he's all wrong for us.
Speaker C:And he says, you know, I saw you beat that man.
Speaker C:Like, no man's been beat before.
Speaker C:And he kept coming after you like, that's Rocky, right?
Speaker C:That's who he is.
Speaker C:So then in five, they give this guy brain damage.
Speaker C:So his reward for being this guy, now he gets brain damage.
Speaker C:It's like they.
Speaker C:You can't take a superhero in a way, right?
Speaker C:And then, like, make him human, like.
Speaker C:I guess.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:You know, I mean, like, it bugged me.
Speaker C:It was all these.
Speaker C:They had to go back to the streets and return to the roots of photos.
Speaker C:So, like, the.
Speaker C:The way the story they came up with for this, which I guess is alone, like, it just felt too false and didn't.
Speaker C:Didn't ring true.
Speaker D:Storyline was Paulie, after the fourth movie, lost their money and they come back broke.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So now he's broke and he's got brain damage.
Speaker C:Well, he was already dumb.
Speaker C:He didn't need the brain damage.
Speaker C:But they get in the brain damage because he can't fight anymore because he takes on an apprentice.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And trains Tommy Gunn, which is what happened with Creed.
Speaker C:And again, they did that better.
Speaker C:So, I mean, it's kind of nice that with time with Rocky Balboa and then the Creeds, he's able to kind of Fix 5.
Speaker C:You tell the story he wanted to tell, it just didn't work, you know?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:My favorite line from the, like, one of my favorite lines about Rocky the Russian, I think, says, it's like hitting a piece of steel.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I don't know.
Speaker C:So you can't take that.
Speaker C:Don't give a brain damage, man.
Speaker C:Like, they wish they'd come up with.
Speaker B:Something different, you know, the.
Speaker B:The things I really liked about 1 and 2 is that he has so many, you know, throwaway lines or whatever.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:You got brain dead drag.
Speaker B:I don't see any.
Speaker B:He's really upset.
Speaker D:What does he say?
Speaker D:What are you gonna do with the money for the fight?
Speaker D:Oh, I'm gonna buy Paulie a snow cone machine.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You like snow cones, right?
Speaker C:He starts, you know, I'm gonna pay the rent.
Speaker C:And then.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You got anything derogatory to say about the champ?
Speaker B:Yeah, he's great.
Speaker C:Yeah, he's great.
Speaker C:It's like.
Speaker C:He's derogatory.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's Almost like he was.
Speaker C:It comes off like he's thinking about, you know.
Speaker C:What can I say?
Speaker C:Derogatory.
Speaker C:But you can tell, like, he doesn't know what that word means.
Speaker C:So, yeah, he's great.
Speaker B:The Mob guy wants him to put his money in condominiums.
Speaker B:He says, well, I don't use them.
Speaker C:I don't use them.
Speaker C:Good stuff again.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:His.
Speaker C:Rocky's humor, Stallone's humor, I think, really, really works for this.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:No, the.
Speaker C:Even the.
Speaker C:The house, it's.
Speaker C: The address is: Speaker C:Yeah, that's A.
Speaker C:Those numbers almost add up to nine.
Speaker C:That's a good omen.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'd have to go back and check, but I think those house numbers change.
Speaker B: bers, but later on it's like,: Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:Because I saw it and I was like.
Speaker B:Because the numbers he says add up to nine.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Aren't the same numbers, I believe, as.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:No, I always thought they were the same.
Speaker C:He says it, and they do add up to nine.
Speaker C:Like, and.
Speaker C:But he's.
Speaker C:You know, he's dumb.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Almost adds up to nine.
Speaker C:It's a good.
Speaker C:Well, they do have to nine.
Speaker C:Dumbass.
Speaker C:You know, but that's what makes him.
Speaker C:You know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:I'd have to go back and check, but.
Speaker C:Yeah, all right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But the thing about Rocky is you love him so much that you're just cheering for him the whole time, right?
Speaker D:Oh, yeah.
Speaker D:Well, I didn't.
Speaker D:I hadn't seen these in a while.
Speaker D:And as the first one starts, it's the end.
Speaker D:I'm sorry.
Speaker D:The second one starts.
Speaker D:The first one's ending.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And I totally forgot.
Speaker D:The first words that Stallone says of dialogue are to Adrian.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:You know, the fight's ended.
Speaker D:She's coming to embrace him, and he says, where's your hat?
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:Then she goes, I love you.
Speaker D:Oh, I love you too.
Speaker B:Well, Sherry saw that and she's like.
Speaker B:She lost her hat.
Speaker B:And I don't know if that was.
Speaker B:I don't know if that was planned or not.
Speaker B:She looked back and.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:No, nice.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:It took me off guard several times.
Speaker D:I was like, oh, that's a funny line.
Speaker D:So.
Speaker B:So endearing of his character, talking about that scene.
Speaker B:Like, so you have.
Speaker B:It's the ending of Rocky 1, but again, I might have to go back and watch.
Speaker B:But is there additional, like, overdub dialogue in that opening scene of Rocky II that wasn't necessarily in.
Speaker B:Because I don't remember them talking as.
Speaker C:Much like him and Adrian.
Speaker B:No, him and Apollo.
Speaker D:Oh, no, the hot.
Speaker D:The ambulance scene.
Speaker B:No, no, I'm talking about when they're in the ring.
Speaker D:Oh, in the ring fighting.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because I didn't.
Speaker A:When I watched the beginning, I thought the same thing.
Speaker C:You're talking about, you know, you're going down in that way and all that.
Speaker B:When they're tussling and it's.
Speaker D:There's no.
Speaker D:There'll be no rematch that don't want one.
Speaker B:I think that's in there.
Speaker B:But it seems like there was more taunting, like you're going down and I.
Speaker C:Don'T know, I thought it was.
Speaker C:I'd have to go back and look at it.
Speaker C:I mean, I thought it was the same.
Speaker C:But I know sometimes he'll recut the stuff a little bit.
Speaker C:You know, he does that like you're saying does that in all the movies.
Speaker C:And I'd kind of, in a way almost forgot that like started up.
Speaker C:I'm like, oh yeah, these are, you know, this and like Back to the Future, like plays the end of the first one to kind of get you in the mood.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:And the.
Speaker C:He just.
Speaker C:He recently had a recut of Rocky 4 and he released it in theaters, you know, like one day or something back in November, I guess of last year.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And so we went and saw it because I was curious to see how he'd recut it.
Speaker C:And actually I heard there was like 40 minutes of new footage, so I thought he had added 40 minutes, made it.
Speaker C:So made it like you know, two and a half hour plus movie.
Speaker C:It's really the same length.
Speaker C:He just cut out so much and re edited a lot.
Speaker D:But it plays out.
Speaker C:Yeah, he cut out the robot.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:But it plays three.
Speaker C:And it actually, to your point we were talking about earlier is it feels a lot better.
Speaker C:It feels less like this 80s cheesy deal and you know, it feels more like the first two.
Speaker C:But anyhow, like he played the beginning of three and I'm pretty sure he put more of three in there than what was originally in there.
Speaker C:But it again like it.
Speaker C:It's a.
Speaker C:I don't want to call it a trick, but a tool that works, that gets you into the, the, the mood for the, you know, the movie you're about to see.
Speaker D:Definitely got me in the mood because if you're.
Speaker D:The movie starts basically at the hospital.
Speaker D:It's slow, slow, slow.
Speaker D:So there's not a fight again until the end.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker D:So watching that at the beginning, you get riled up okay, I'm in for this ride.
Speaker D:And then.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker D:It's gonna be a long movie.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:That was.
Speaker C:That was Stacy's biggest complaint was just how slow it is and how, you know, she says it's better than one, but it's still.
Speaker C:It's slow and it drags.
Speaker C:And to me, it.
Speaker C:Like.
Speaker C:I guess I can understand that, but, like, I guess, like, I love the story and love Rocky so much that I'll watch him read the newspaper.
Speaker C:I mean, like, it doesn't bother me what he's doing.
Speaker C:Like.
Speaker C:And I really like the aspect that they show him trying to live a normal life.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:He's retired now.
Speaker C:He tries to go get.
Speaker C:You know, he buys a house, he buys a car, tries to get a job.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:With a ninth.
Speaker C:A ninth, you know, grade education.
Speaker C:You know, I'd like to, you know, like, make money sitting down over there, like you're doing, you know, I mean, just.
Speaker C:And it's.
Speaker C:To me, it's.
Speaker C:It's all, like, theme.
Speaker C:I didn't have, like, a.
Speaker C:No one specifically stated it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:What I wrote down.
Speaker C:But he.
Speaker C:I feel like he kind of plays with this theme throughout the whole series.
Speaker C:Like, he actually vocalizes it.
Speaker C:In Rocky Balboa, fighters Fight.
Speaker C:And then even in four, where Apollo's like.
Speaker C:You know, they had this big discussion about, you know.
Speaker C:You know, Rocky says, we can't fight anymore.
Speaker C:We're turning into regular people.
Speaker C:And then Apollo's like, no, you can't just turn it off and on like, some radio.
Speaker C:You know, we're.
Speaker C:We're warriors.
Speaker C:We're fighters.
Speaker C:So I feel like that's kind of the theme he was kind of playing with here is Rocky is a boxer, is a fighter.
Speaker C:He can't go on and do this.
Speaker C:He hasn't even says it.
Speaker C:One point.
Speaker C:I don't know anything else.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker B:Actually, because I was struggling with the theme, and I think I found something we'll talk about in a second.
Speaker B:We need to talk about box office and stuff real quick.
Speaker B:Does anybody.
Speaker B:I don't have it pulled up.
Speaker B:I can pull it up.
Speaker C:Yeah, I've got it.
Speaker C:So the budget was 7 million, and it made 200 million, like, worldwide.
Speaker C:And I think, like, 80 something here.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:So obviously, you know, a tremendous big hit.
Speaker C:It's a sequel.
Speaker C:So, I mean, it.
Speaker C:You know.
Speaker A:What year was that?
Speaker C:19.
Speaker C: ,: Speaker A:79.
Speaker B:The first one was.
Speaker C:The first one.
Speaker D:76 for the rhinestone movie you were asking about.
Speaker C:There you go.
Speaker B:So it cost 200 million and made 7 million.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:Well.
Speaker C:And most of that went to Dolly, but yeah.
Speaker C:Rotten Tomatoes.
Speaker C:Critics have it at 72% and audiences have it at 82%.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Huh.
Speaker B:72 is pretty good, but I would expect it more.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Same hair is a little disappointed, but, you know, got the rose colored glasses.
Speaker B:On, you know, now.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Stallone wrote and directed this one.
Speaker C:Correct.
Speaker C:He wrote all of them, including the Abysmal Five.
Speaker C:But he directed two through six.
Speaker C:Okay, now, excuse me, two through four.
Speaker C:And then Rocky Bobo, which is six.
Speaker C:The John G.
Speaker C:Alvinson did this one and then five.
Speaker B:I gotcha.
Speaker C:That guy also did like Karate Kid and he did some.
Speaker C:Some other, like he.
Speaker C:This underdog, rousing sports story is kind of his shtick.
Speaker B:Sure did.
Speaker B:He was he.
Speaker B:I know it was at least nominated for best screenplay.
Speaker B:Rocky 1.
Speaker B:Did he win for that one or was it just nominated?
Speaker C:I think he won for a screenplay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Screenplay.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I wanted to say that he had actually won it.
Speaker B:They didn't want.
Speaker B:I read somewhere that they didn't want Stallone to direct and he wasn't going to release Rocky rights to him unless.
Speaker C:This one.
Speaker B:Yeah, this one.
Speaker B:Rocky two.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:The original guy was making something else.
Speaker C:Oh, Saturday Night Fever.
Speaker C:Which is interesting because Stallone ends up directing Staying Alive, the sequel.
Speaker B:Oh, I didn't know that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:But yeah, he was doing that, so he couldn't.
Speaker C:And then, yes, Loan wanted to want to direct it and basically, you know, muscle his way in.
Speaker C:And I think the studios, since the first one was so well received, they kind of caved a little bit because I think what I'd read was he'd only directed Paradise Alley at this point, Stallone had, which was not a hit in his success.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Yeah, I don't think I've ever even seen it.
Speaker C:But, you know, so again, so much of.
Speaker C:I felt like this is probably part of it and to me, probably why it works so well is so there's so many parallels with the Rocky story that, like.
Speaker C:Parallels with his actual life.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And just, you know, being the underdog and convincing people to, you know, give him a shot.
Speaker B:The Sherry wanted me to be careful here and I don't want to offend any of our Philadelphia listeners.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B: But: Speaker C:Well, I mean, I also think, like where he lives.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I mean, yeah, he gets a nicer house, but like, you know, like, it's.
Speaker C:It's you know, I guess it was.
Speaker B:All inner cities at the time, though, like New York and you know, like.
Speaker C:I mean, I feel like they show a lot of the, you know, the.
Speaker C:I don't want to say slummier parts, but.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, it.
Speaker C:It looked like Rocket doesn't have a lot of money.
Speaker C:Say again?
Speaker A:It looked from the 70s when we were watching it, however, we watched someone go around and show it's got on tape.
Speaker B:YouTuber.
Speaker B:We followed.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Watch the filming locations and it looks the same.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:This was in some places, like where he lived.
Speaker B:We did all the film where he moved.
Speaker A:Right where the gym was and he.
Speaker A:He even said he was approached by several people who either opened the door or told him to get out of the neighborhood.
Speaker B:You know, like, I still would like.
Speaker A:To visit the stairs, the statue and things like that.
Speaker A:I don't care to see the.
Speaker C:Yeah, I've been.
Speaker A:I don't care to see his houses, but.
Speaker A:And then along the river where they were showing where he ran in one movie.
Speaker A:It wasn't one and two.
Speaker C:Yeah, but you know.
Speaker C:Yeah, we went a while ago, like late, unfortunately.
Speaker C:Like, I'd like to go again just because Leith was so young.
Speaker C:He doesn't remember.
Speaker C:But yeah, we went and saw the.
Speaker C:Hesitate to call them the Rocky Steps.
Speaker C:It's a library, actually, up at the top.
Speaker A:Oh, I wondered what that was.
Speaker C:And they showed in Creed 2.
Speaker C:I think the statue is actually.
Speaker C:I don't remember what year, but it was at the top and they moved it.
Speaker C:It's down at the bottom of the steps, like to the right, but up there.
Speaker C:If you go over the front where the steps were.
Speaker C:Excuse me.
Speaker C:Go up to the top of the steps where the statue is.
Speaker C:His footprint is in cement up there at the top or whatever.
Speaker C:That's really cool.
Speaker A:Did you run up the stairs?
Speaker C:I didn't and I should have.
Speaker C:You know, it's one of those things I regret.
Speaker C:I was just like, no, I don't want to do this.
Speaker C:And then.
Speaker C:Yeah, immediately regret it because everybody is doing that.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I mean, you see the steps.
Speaker C:It's hard not to fight the instinct.
Speaker C:I don't know how I did it, but.
Speaker A:Yeah, even on.
Speaker A:What is it?
Speaker A:Scott on tape.
Speaker B:Scott on.
Speaker A:Yeah, people.
Speaker A:He was filming and he said, here comes someone.
Speaker D:I don't think I could make it up those steps.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Maybe that's what I was worried about.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:You know, have my Rocky moment, then trip and fall.
Speaker C:Yeah, but.
Speaker D:Knock your teeth out.
Speaker C:Knock my teeth out.
Speaker C:And Bust this guy's teeth out.
Speaker C:Anyhow, it was really cool.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:All right, so opening image.
Speaker C:So even though it's the beginning for me, even though it's the beginning of the end of the first one, I still chose that as my opening image.
Speaker C:It was him in the.
Speaker C:In the ring, bloodied, but lost the decision.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker C:He got his goal at the time.
Speaker C:He went the distance, but he.
Speaker C:Because the.
Speaker C:The closing is obviously that he.
Speaker C:He wins this time.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I just have opening image.
Speaker B:Rocky, undaunted, going the distance with Apollo.
Speaker B:You know, this.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:This is who Rocky is, you know.
Speaker C:Oh, and the genres.
Speaker C:I have his Golden Fleece because it's a.
Speaker B:You know, I didn't even.
Speaker B:I didn't even do the genre this time, so I'm the one that didn't do.
Speaker B:What is Golden Fleece?
Speaker C:That's the.
Speaker C:The journey, the road, and the, like.
Speaker C:Most.
Speaker C:Like, the way Blake Snyder does is pretty much like all sports movies are Golden Fleece because there's a prize at the end, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Road, a team, and a price.
Speaker C:And so, yeah, I think that.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's probably it.
Speaker C:Rocky's got his team, Paulie, Mickey, Adrian, and then, you know, the prize is the title, and then the road is the.
Speaker C:The training journey to get there.
Speaker B:Yeah, I completely forgot.
Speaker B:But that's.
Speaker B:That's probably right, because, yeah, if most sports movies fall into that, then, yeah.
Speaker C:He calls it a sports fleece, I guess is.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Kind of the sub genre of Golden Fleece.
Speaker C:The Star wars is a Golden Fleece.
Speaker C:And like, Saving Private Ryan's a Golden Fleece.
Speaker C:Like any kind of.
Speaker C:A lot of times a prize.
Speaker C:Even what they call McGuffin, like, it doesn't really matter.
Speaker C:It's just a thing to get.
Speaker D:So the Mighty Ducks is a Golden Fleece.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker D:All right, we'll review that later then.
Speaker C:There you go.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So the setup that I found.
Speaker B:James had mentioned that he.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:It does follow a store arc.
Speaker B:I think some of the beats are late, like, kind of way late.
Speaker B:But that's what.
Speaker B:I think that's what you get with a Rocky movie, though, because you know what's coming at the end.
Speaker B:But that's always the last 30 minutes of the movie.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:So for setup.
Speaker B:And I do have some thoughts about theme, because I struggle with that until a certain image came up.
Speaker B:Anyway, the setup.
Speaker B:Apollo wants a rematch.
Speaker B:Rocky says he's officially retired.
Speaker B:And then we talked about this already, but even in this scene, there's just some very cool lines.
Speaker B:Brain damage.
Speaker B:I don't see Any, you know, Rocky, what did you think about, you know, the fight or whatever?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I think I maybe should have stayed his course.
Speaker C:I just.
Speaker B:I love these exchanges, right.
Speaker B:I mean, and it makes you instantly love him, right?
Speaker B:I just totally.
Speaker B:How do you feel, Rocky?
Speaker B:Oh, very handsome.
Speaker B:Now, I did notice there's a.
Speaker C:Just made me think of another exchange.
Speaker C:I didn't write it down, but when he's after.
Speaker C:He's kind of bandaged up and like half his face is covered in bandages and he's laying in the hospital bed, he's talking to Paulie and he's, you know, that was my face.
Speaker C:Look.
Speaker C:Polly goes, I wouldn't want it.
Speaker B:Well, there's.
Speaker B:At the end when.
Speaker B:When he's in the room with.
Speaker B:With Apollo, Apollo's taunting him and.
Speaker B:And Mickey says, don't let it bother you, kid.
Speaker B:And he says, would it bother you?
Speaker C:Right, right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, he still looks bad now.
Speaker B:I did notice that very early on.
Speaker B:There's, like three people that immediately want something from him.
Speaker B:Like, he's so.
Speaker C:He's interesting.
Speaker B:He's gone the distance with, you know, so a job, an autograph and endorsements.
Speaker B:Paulie instantly wants him to get him a job with his old boss, right?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:The guy is hounding him about endorsements and the nurse.
Speaker D:Autograph.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then Tony wants him to invest in his condominiums.
Speaker B:And then the nurse wants an autograph.
Speaker B:So, like, people.
Speaker B:He hadn't even won, but obviously he's got some notoriety and.
Speaker B:And immediately people are going to start wanting something for him.
Speaker D:That's the first time I caught.
Speaker D:That was.
Speaker D:I guess the last time I watched it was the nurse was, can you sign this to my son, you know, whatever.
Speaker C:To my good friend Charlie or whatever that I don't even know yet makes a crack about it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:I was like, man, yeah.
Speaker D:Like you said, Paulie asking for.
Speaker D:For the job, the nerd.
Speaker D:It's like everybody wants something from him.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker D:He's just Rocky.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I feel like the same guy.
Speaker D:Before the fight in the first movie.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker C:Yeah, I do think on that.
Speaker C:I think he has a flat arc.
Speaker C:I think he's the same character the whole time.
Speaker C:I don't think he changes.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:As far as this movie.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Maybe all of them, but, yeah, I think, you know, yeah, he's a flat arc for sure.
Speaker C:I think he changes the people around him and we can talk about if that could be developed better.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Well, I don't know.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker C:He felt differently.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, the opening image is undaunted because it's his heart, right.
Speaker B:Like, this is.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:And at the end, that.
Speaker B:That heart, that.
Speaker B:That ability to be undaunted and not fall, you know, that that's what gets him through.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I think flat arc, and I think.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think that he stays the same, and it.
Speaker B:And it allows him to.
Speaker B:To win, you know, because he.
Speaker B:Technically, he got a split decision, and, like, technically, he won that fight, according to some of the judges.
Speaker C:Yeah, the first one.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:He did not lose, and that's what ate at Apollo.
Speaker C:May not beat him, but I got the decision, but I didn't beat him.
Speaker B:Right, right, right.
Speaker B:So the setup.
Speaker B:And then there's a lot of.
Speaker B:I guess a lot of setup because he.
Speaker B:He begins.
Speaker B:He marries Adrian.
Speaker D:He takes her to the zoo to ask her to marry him, which is interesting.
Speaker B:Well, there's a couple things about that, because Paulie was saying you take retards to the zoo.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:It wasn't Paulie.
Speaker C:It was one of Gazo's.
Speaker C:Oh, instrument or whatever.
Speaker B:Driver.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:She's not retarded.
Speaker C:She's shy.
Speaker C:And then you say, hey, Rocky, you know what you do with retard?
Speaker C:You take him to the zoo.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I thought, I'm gonna bust your face.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I thought that was a little weird at first, but I think there's a reason for.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And this is because I knew Stallone was a great writer, but, you know.
Speaker B:Does Rocky have a theme?
Speaker B:Yeah, well, you take a punch or whatever.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:But there is.
Speaker B:There is a theme, and you hinted at it.
Speaker B:Fighter fights, Right.
Speaker B:And he'll.
Speaker B:He'll say later, I never stopped asking you to be a woman.
Speaker B:Please don't stop asking me to be a man.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Okay, so you got to be who you are.
Speaker B:But early on, there's an image.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And definitely it plays later in.
Speaker B:In later movies, but.
Speaker C:Oh, the tiger.
Speaker C:The tiger, it's on his back on the jacket that he buys, and then it's at the zoo.
Speaker B:The tiger in the cage at the zoo.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:Yeah, I didn't think about that.
Speaker D:And never caught.
Speaker C:Yeah, Very, very cool.
Speaker C:And he's a tiger.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And the third one.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, you know, I love tigers, so.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And he's wearing this tiger.
Speaker B:Tiger on the back.
Speaker B:So what you're seeing is a tiger in the cage, and tigers don't belong in cages, man.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker C:Oh, very cool.
Speaker B:Yeah, very cool.
Speaker B:So as soon as I saw that, I said, well, that's the theme.
Speaker B:It's unspoken, but Stallone is no idiot.
Speaker B:He knew there's no way you have a tiger.
Speaker B:A tiger on the jacket when he's doing the commercials.
Speaker C:Oh, they put him in a cage.
Speaker B:They put him in a cage and he's got tiger print on with the club, you know.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And he's in a cage and he's.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker D:And he doesn't belong element.
Speaker D:He can't perform.
Speaker D:The lines.
Speaker C:Smill smell, mainly.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Which I looked at that damn card.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like the way they spelled.
Speaker C:Mainly.
Speaker C:Like they spelled it right.
Speaker C:But it looks funny.
Speaker C:It looks like an eye.
Speaker C:Like, I can see why he said mainly, you know?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:He was.
Speaker B:There was no way he was going to do that successfully.
Speaker B:Right, Right.
Speaker B:Tiger print in the cage.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So I'm like, yes.
Speaker B:The loan knows what?
Speaker C:He's very, very cool.
Speaker C:Nice.
Speaker C:I didn't notice those mean.
Speaker B:He says.
Speaker B:He says he starts enjoying the spoils of victory.
Speaker B:Spending all this money, new car, house, jewelry or whatever.
Speaker C:Even buys polio watch.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:That he didn't thank him for.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:This is a good.
Speaker B:You don't have to thank you for the job.
Speaker B:Rocky.
Speaker B:We thank.
Speaker C:Shakes his hand.
Speaker C:You don't have thank either.
Speaker D:That's what I noticed in that first.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker D:The whole thing is everybody's taking advantage of him.
Speaker D:Everybody except Adrien.
Speaker D:But she's.
Speaker D:Oh, you're retired.
Speaker D:She's holding him in the cage.
Speaker B:Yeah, she's.
Speaker D:She's emotionally.
Speaker B:And I'd forgotten about the character of Mickey, but Burgess Meredith.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Man, oh, man, he was.
Speaker B:He is so good.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:He's great as he is.
Speaker B:Like, even to the point.
Speaker B:And not all of it.
Speaker B:The bulk of it is him and his acting.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:But they.
Speaker B:They light him correctly with, like, he's in shadows.
Speaker C:Gnarled.
Speaker C:And it's a mess.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Even when Rocky goes to see him.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like, he.
Speaker C:I love how the.
Speaker C:The key to the gym is in Rocky's hat.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like, he takes his hat off because in the first one, the combination to his locker is in his hat.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:But he.
Speaker C:Rocky opens up the gym, goes in there, starts going up the steps, and it's late at night, so Mickey comes out like a bash.
Speaker B:I'm like, who the hell is that?
Speaker C:Just ready to bash somebody's head in.
Speaker C:Bash somebody's head in?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Ready to bash somebody's head in.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Did you say that?
Speaker C:He said, I don't remember you, Nikki.
Speaker C:Nice.
Speaker C:I didn't catch that.
Speaker C:Sorry I interrupt.
Speaker C:You're just talking about Mickey.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:No, no.
Speaker B:He is Amazing.
Speaker B:So anyway, but, but, but still, Rocky will even say something.
Speaker B:And I believe that lines are chosen by the writer.
Speaker B:Right, okay, sure.
Speaker B:Because Stallone says a couple of things during the commercial when they're in the cage and then when he's doing Gotta.
Speaker C:Be punchy doing this in front of my wife.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:But he says, the guy says to him after he's pissed and wants to fire Rocky, will you get out of the cage?
Speaker B:And I think that's the question of the movie.
Speaker B:Will Rocky get out of the cage and be Rocky?
Speaker C:Nice.
Speaker B:And then in that second commercial shoot, he's like this, this whole thing ain't right, you know, talking what you're talking about.
Speaker B:Of course.
Speaker B:But on some level, yeah.
Speaker B:He's telling the audience, he's telling himself, I am not where I need to be.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker C:Well, even the audience, I mean, I didn't think much of just now, but obviously they didn't go pay their money and go see Rocky 2 to watch him do commercials.
Speaker C:Right, right.
Speaker C:They want to see, damn, he almost beat Apollo last time.
Speaker C:Let's see if he can beat him.
Speaker C:This.
Speaker B:Yeah, we all know what's coming.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And, and, but yeah.
Speaker B:So the commercial career is a bus.
Speaker B:The regular job pursuit is bus.
Speaker B:Can't get a job, nothing.
Speaker B:So this is all driving him.
Speaker B:Well, he gets one and the meat packer or whatever.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Cuz he, because he keeps trying to go out for all these like office jobs that he doesn't have any skills for.
Speaker B:They wind up firing him.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:They laid him off.
Speaker C:And just him.
Speaker C:I think that's important that he, he didn't just go in a.
Speaker C:Yo, Adrian, I did some interviews.
Speaker C:It's not working.
Speaker C:I'm gonna go fight.
Speaker C:Like, he actually held the job.
Speaker C:And if they hadn't laid him off, how long would he have stayed in that cage?
Speaker C:To your point?
Speaker C:You know what I mean?
Speaker C:It's interesting.
Speaker C:You know what I didn't think about, maybe that's some of the theme too.
Speaker C:Like it's.
Speaker C:It's dead animals that he's dealing with.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:It was cows.
Speaker C:And so it's me.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:If that plays into the, you know, being an animal in a cage and.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker C:You know, this is a dead end job.
Speaker C:You're gonna end up just like this meat here.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker D:I noticed the thing though.
Speaker D:Everything in Rocky's life to him is normal.
Speaker D:He doesn't understand why he can't box anymore.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:He doesn't understand I'm the same guy.
Speaker D:Why can't I go back right to the way it was before Apollo.
Speaker D:I feel the same.
Speaker D:Everybody else around me has changed.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:And that's the frustrating thing that I noticed of.
Speaker D:He has to go just get a job, and now he's getting laid off.
Speaker D:He's too famous to be a boxer, and he's too.
Speaker D:Nobody wants to touch him anymore.
Speaker D:It's.
Speaker B:And he's made this feel for him.
Speaker B:Promise to Adrian.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Which is.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:And all he wants to do is continue to live the life he was.
Speaker C:Well, he knows he can beat Apollo, or at least, you know, from.
Speaker C:He almost.
Speaker C:Even before, like, he knows, like, you know, man, I almost did before.
Speaker C:I want a second chance like him.
Speaker C:He.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I think he knows how close he came.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I think that's the best thing he's ever.
Speaker C:The only thing he's ever been good at.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker D:And then as soon as he steps out of that ring, it's all taken away from him.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker D:And that's obviously.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:He has to lose the car.
Speaker C:He loses his job.
Speaker C:He doesn't lose the house.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:They're able to keep the house.
Speaker C:But, you know.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:You know, tries to live a normal life, and it doesn't work.
Speaker C:He loses all his.
Speaker B:I think he wants to believe that he can do.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Other things.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:Oh, for sure.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Because he got a shot way late in life.
Speaker B:And Mickey says, your career is over, kid.
Speaker B:He says, I didn't have a career.
Speaker B:Now I have one, and now I don't have.
Speaker C:You know, I love that scene where he does the finger thing.
Speaker C:And I see it how you see nothing.
Speaker C:You know what?
Speaker C:It came down your whole face kick in your face.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:He's like, you know, what do you think the champ would have done to you?
Speaker C:You know, I don't know.
Speaker C:Hurt me bad.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker C:Hurt you permanent.
Speaker C:You know, like, I mean, like, I love that scene.
Speaker C:Like, I mean, you're talking about tears and stuff.
Speaker C:That scene gets me every time when he.
Speaker C:He knows, all right.
Speaker C:Mickey just showed him Smash, you know, Slapped him in the face.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And he has to, you know, can I work at the gym?
Speaker C:He's like, you really want them to see you carrying spit buck and stuff?
Speaker C:And he just.
Speaker C:I gotta be around it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:That gets me.
Speaker C:Pulls at the heartstrings, like, majorly.
Speaker D:And that's.
Speaker D:That's what I mean is like, I gotta be around it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:And nobody will let him in.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker C:That.
Speaker D:That pulled on me.
Speaker D:That was.
Speaker D:It was Tremendous.
Speaker B:At some point, I guess, Adrian gets pregnant.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:And then again, one of these, what I consider a key phrase, and I can't remember who he said it to.
Speaker B:Might be talking to Adrian.
Speaker B:Do I want to be doing something I don't want to do?
Speaker B:I don't remember the exact contents of that line.
Speaker B:Maybe it's when he was working out in the basement.
Speaker B:I can't remember.
Speaker B:Have to go back and look.
Speaker B:But in any event, he's talking to somebody and he's.
Speaker B:He's verbalizes this and.
Speaker C:Nice.
Speaker B:So he's struggling like he wants to be.
Speaker B:He wants to provide for Adrian and all that.
Speaker B:And she said, well, we'll get by.
Speaker B:And he says, well, that's just it.
Speaker B:Getting by.
Speaker C:I want to just get by.
Speaker B:I don't want to get by.
Speaker B:I want you to have the things now, you know.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Because in his mind, a man provides for his family.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's 70s.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker B:You know, And.
Speaker C:And also in the.
Speaker C:The interview, one of them, the owner of the interview says, hey, why don't you go.
Speaker C:Why don't you try go back to boxing?
Speaker C:I heard you're a pretty good fighter.
Speaker C:Like, so there's even these hints of you're on the wrong path, you know.
Speaker C:And again, back to what James saying.
Speaker C:He's the only one that wants to go down this road again.
Speaker C:Yeah, shoot that.
Speaker C:And Apollo, the guy that wants to fight him where everybody else, he's got no support, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:He says, one more time, I'm a fighter.
Speaker B:That's what I do.
Speaker B:So I'm assuming this is in that conversation with Adrian.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:At the bottom or whatever.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So we talked about the theme.
Speaker B:I do not.
Speaker B:I didn't hear an early statement, but I think that tiger.
Speaker B:I think the whole cage thing, that's cool.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:They're not, you know, being who you're supposed to be.
Speaker B:Is a tiger supposed to be in a cage?
Speaker B:No, he's not.
Speaker B:So I think.
Speaker B:And I think that's completely intentional.
Speaker B:So now we have Rocky's world.
Speaker B:What do you have as your catalyst?
Speaker C:I don't want to say double bump, but losing the job at the meet locker.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And then him going to.
Speaker C:Well, no, I guess that's it.
Speaker C:Him losing the job and deciding I gotta go fight.
Speaker C:I tried doing this regular thing because to me, his break into two is going to see Mickey.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's early, but it's because any.
Speaker C:Well, Snyder doesn't talk about it a lot, but it's in Joseph Campbell and Vogler Talked about the writer's journey, the hero's journey.
Speaker C:Like a lot of times when they break into two, they cross the threshold, they don't always land on solid ground.
Speaker C:And then they stumble and, and can have like a, a fall, like right out of the gate, I guess, right?
Speaker C:And I kind of feel like that's what happens here because he, you know, breaks into Jesus, I'm going to go fight, right?
Speaker C:I can't do anything else.
Speaker C:And immediately Mickey tells me, you know, you can't.
Speaker C:You don't have the skills anymore.
Speaker C:Yeah, Mickey, the guy who was in this corner and trained him, doesn't support him right out of the gate, right?
Speaker C:But his opinion never changes.
Speaker C:Like, Rocky's like, he still wants to fight and, well, just go, I'll work at the gym, right?
Speaker C:You know, I got to be around it.
Speaker C:Like, he's still like, I don't know what he thought.
Speaker C:Like, I get it, I gotta be around it.
Speaker C:But like, did he think, well, Mickey sees me carrying buckets, maybe he'll go, alright, let's straighten your side of the.
Speaker C:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, yeah, I think he just had.
Speaker C:To, because then after that he gets all this harassment and all this stuff and, you know, disrespect, but he, he still wants to fight the whole time, right?
Speaker C:And you really want him, even though it's not Rocky's character, you really want him to smash that guy's face.
Speaker C:You know, this guy talking all this shit is like, which I guess that's part of it.
Speaker C:Like, you know that.
Speaker C:Like, all right, if he gets mad enough, he's gonna knock this dude out, so it's not worth it.
Speaker C:But you have it later, right?
Speaker C:Because at first my first instinct was that everything was later.
Speaker C:And I'm like, all right, well, what if it's not?
Speaker C:Because there's a lot in there if the break into two is way late.
Speaker C:Is that all set up?
Speaker C:Is that all debate?
Speaker C:Is that all catalyst?
Speaker C:So I thought, well, let me write it down this way and it's gonna see how it plays out.
Speaker B:Yeah, I have.
Speaker B:The catalyst is, with no other options, Rocky says he has to fight.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:The debate is he promised Adrian he could lose his eye.
Speaker B:Mickey knows the danger and warns him off.
Speaker B:That scene at the top of the stairs gives him a job at the gym.
Speaker C:So at that point, it's all debate too.
Speaker B:I think he's debated and decided, okay, well, I can't fight.
Speaker B:Nobody's going blind.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, and then Mickey slaps him or whatever.
Speaker B:So I think he's debating at this point, and I think at that point, he's shown.
Speaker B:Okay, yeah, I can't do it, but I got to be around it.
Speaker B:So he's hauling spit buckets, right?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Apollo is his double bump because he's still pressing for a rematch.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:And then Rocky is sweeping the gym, and he has the conversation with his old boss, the mob guy or whatever.
Speaker C:Remember that guy, Rock?
Speaker B:Remember that guy, Rock?
Speaker B:That's exactly it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then he goes home, and I guess he has the conversation with Adrian in the basement.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think.
Speaker D:No, the.
Speaker D:The basement was when he was laid off.
Speaker D:That might have been the conversation in the bedroom when he says, you gotta be a fighter.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:I'm not asking you to not be a woman.
Speaker C:Right after that, Apollo does the.
Speaker C:The public call out.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And that's what Mickey sees on the tv.
Speaker C:But Rocky's sitting there and is by the stairs with a dog watching it.
Speaker C:He gets mad and goes up the.
Speaker B:Stairs because he says, I'm supposed to be the conversation with Adrian.
Speaker B:You're right.
Speaker B:I'm supposed to be a fighter.
Speaker B:I don't want you to do it.
Speaker B:That's all I know.
Speaker B:This is the exchange, you know, she's.
Speaker B:I don't want you to do it.
Speaker B:It's all I know.
Speaker B:Don't ask me to stop being a man slash beast.
Speaker B:Tiger, right?
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:You know, tiger can't change its stripes, right?
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:So I have the break into two, because then there's, like, there's a knock at the door, and it's Mickey, right?
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker B:Because Mickey saw the commercial where Apollo is taunting and it gets mad, you know, and.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Mickey knocks on the door, and the first thing he says, I think we ought to knock his block off.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:And out the door they go.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm nailing that as the second act.
Speaker C:I thought about that.
Speaker C:I did.
Speaker C:Is that your second act, too?
Speaker D:My second act.
Speaker D:Adrian there on the stairs, looking out as they go out the door.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:The meanest mug look ever, you know.
Speaker C:You son of a.
Speaker C:But anyhow, yeah, I was watching it.
Speaker D:I was like, I think I know where the second act is.
Speaker B:So that was the door.
Speaker C:That was my instinct.
Speaker C:But I guess I.
Speaker C:I guess where I struggle is from the moment him going to see Mickey on the stairs.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Hey, let's do this.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And his.
Speaker C:I don't feel like he ever changes.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:He wants to do it the whole time, and he's just getting all these obstacles.
Speaker C:You don't have the skills anymore, kid.
Speaker C:His wife doesn't want him to.
Speaker C:So to me, I have the Mickey coming because Mickey turns him down and then changes his mind.
Speaker C:I have that as a false victory, as a midpoint.
Speaker C:Finally, he's in his corner.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Cause I struggle with that too.
Speaker D:Good argument.
Speaker C:He gets everything he thinks he wants.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But he's.
Speaker C:Then he, you know, after that he starts training half ass and.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So you have false victory.
Speaker B:What is it?
Speaker C:Yeah, false.
Speaker B:That's interesting.
Speaker D:So Mickey coming to get him was a false victory.
Speaker C:That's where I have it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:Makes sense to me too.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Both ways.
Speaker C:Just.
Speaker C:And the part that I struggle with one, it's so late.
Speaker C:It.
Speaker C:That's breaking into which, you know, we've seen a lot of movies that are going to do that.
Speaker C:And then the.
Speaker C:Just like I said, the.
Speaker C:His debate, like, is.
Speaker C:I don't feel like he's debating anymore.
Speaker C:Like he's made up his mind.
Speaker C:He's Everybody else around him's debate.
Speaker B:He's made up his mind.
Speaker B:When he goes.
Speaker B:Sees Mickey at the top of the stairs.
Speaker C:Correct.
Speaker B:But he walks down those stairs having decided not to do it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:Defeated, dejected.
Speaker B:I can't do it.
Speaker B:Just, you know, I got.
Speaker B:Thanks, Mickey for letting me haul spit buckets.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And then, then he's hauling spit buckets and he's not even training.
Speaker B:Like he's just showing guys how to snarl and haul and spit buckets.
Speaker B:And so I think at that point he's debated and decided.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:But then he has this conversation with Adrian and so now he's still sort of changed his mind again.
Speaker B:Oh, I tried just being around it and that's not enough.
Speaker B:Don't ask me not to do this.
Speaker B:Mickey sees.
Speaker B:Mickey, who is a fighter himself, sees this and he's not going to take that.
Speaker B:Let's knock his block off.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:So at that point, I think he's decided.
Speaker B:So I think he's answered the call debating, yes, no, yes, I can do this.
Speaker B:No, okay.
Speaker B:I can't do it.
Speaker B:Mickey says I can do it.
Speaker B:Yes, let's go do it.
Speaker C:Interesting.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, so.
Speaker B:But I do think that the beats are not.
Speaker C:I don't think they're crystal clear on all of them.
Speaker B:Yeah, crystal clear.
Speaker B:Are on time.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But with Rocky, you always get set way back because, you know, when the fight comes, Rocky has to be way back because he's got to overcome.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:The fight has to be him coming from last to first or whatever.
Speaker C:You know, he almost follows hero's journey more than.
Speaker C:Than Blake Sarna.
Speaker C:Because it's like one big ordeal, you know?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And, and, and to be fair, we analyze these movies according to Blake Snyder.
Speaker B:But Blake Snyder was not around.
Speaker C:Correct, correct.
Speaker B:When these movies were being written.
Speaker B:However, story structure has many titles, many categories, but essentially Hero's Journey and Catboy have different names for a lot of the same stuff.
Speaker B:Yeah, a lot of the same stuff.
Speaker B:And Hero's Journey will say you can rearrange them and all this stuff any way you want.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Snyder is a little more rigid.
Speaker B:Yeah, a little more rigid.
Speaker B:So I think that you're probably right about the Hero's Journey and that's why maybe.
Speaker B:I think they're late.
Speaker B:According to Snyder.
Speaker B:Whatever.
Speaker B:The fun and games.
Speaker B:Fun and games and Rocky movies are always awesome.
Speaker B:Starting off with the press conference, what do you think about fighting at the, the.
Speaker B:Wherever it is, the Palladium or whatever.
Speaker B:I like.
Speaker B:It's about 10 minutes from my house.
Speaker C:Right, right.
Speaker B:Just.
Speaker B:He seems pretty mad.
Speaker B:List of things he's going to buy.
Speaker B:Anything derogatory.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's great.
Speaker B:We talked about that.
Speaker B:Or whatever.
Speaker C:And then the Kentucky Fried Idiot, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Chasing the chicken.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Why do you wear that, that, those, those sweats?
Speaker B:It brings me luck.
Speaker B:It brings flies.
Speaker B:I love these two.
Speaker B:Man studying tapes.
Speaker B:Coming up with a new strategy.
Speaker B:Now, now this is at the end.
Speaker B:He's a South ball.
Speaker B:Fights left handed.
Speaker B:But Mickey wants him to fight right handed.
Speaker C:Protective bad eye.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Which he does.
Speaker B:Now does he ever switch in the fight?
Speaker B:Because he says, I don't want to do tricks.
Speaker B:I'm gonna.
Speaker C:I think he does.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:When he, when Mickey, like, he says, I don't want to know.
Speaker C:No tricks.
Speaker C:No tricks.
Speaker C:It was too late for that or whatever.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:But then Mickey still yells now, now.
Speaker C:And I think he does.
Speaker B:Okay, all right.
Speaker B:Because one, one review I read because.
Speaker C:He knocks him out with the left.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So one review I said that he did switch.
Speaker B:I wasn't able.
Speaker B:I don't know enough about boxing to tell whether he switched or not.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:But he said no tricks.
Speaker B:And then I thought, well, does he not do it?
Speaker B:But then other reviewers said, yeah, he did do it.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker C:Well, it's interesting though too because like the, the scene where he's.
Speaker C:I hate to, hate to rag on it, but the scene where he's, you know, hit that back 5,000 times or whatever, he's doing it all with his left hand.
Speaker C:It's not his right.
Speaker C:He's trained to be not a softball should have been his right.
Speaker C:I Don't.
Speaker C:I didn't understand what they were doing there.
Speaker D:Learning to throw.
Speaker D:Jab with a left hand.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Which is the right.
Speaker D:The right handed pose.
Speaker B:Is it you're jab with your left to set up the right.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Okay, so it's not wrong.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker C:That southpaw was.
Speaker C:You hit with your left, you jab.
Speaker D:With your left, you hit with your right on a south paw, you jab with your right, you swing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because that's like your big knockout punches.
Speaker B:Right then.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's my lack of knowledge.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker C:Southpaw was like, you hit with your left, but you're saying that that's the hand that leads out where most guys lead out.
Speaker D:Southpaw, your right hand is out, your left is back protecting your face.
Speaker C:Gotcha.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker D:It's.
Speaker D:And it throws.
Speaker D:So if you were to fight right handed, we would be mirroring each other.
Speaker D:And that's what's so challenging about it.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker D:Because our jabs run into each other, our crosses will run into each other.
Speaker C:But as a southpaw, you throw more right handed jabs than left and you're.
Speaker D:Going to power with your left.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Cuz like.
Speaker C:Oh, okay.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:So him knocking him out with a power left is switching back.
Speaker B:Yeah, I guess so.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Because that cuz like turn into a.
Speaker D:Boxing podcast all of a sudden.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Well, I mean, no, that's.
Speaker B:I, I know nothing about.
Speaker D:And I could totally be wrong.
Speaker D:I'm not a boxing.
Speaker C:Well, I misunderstood it then.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Years and years ago, Sharon and I for, for fitness, took martial arts or whatever and there are stances.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And even Bruce Lee, you know, so you'll see him standing with a guard hand and, and a.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I knew that.
Speaker C:So I guess, Yeah, I guess I just thought it was the.
Speaker B:And so like, I don't know if it's because it's predominantly, you know, like right handed or whatever, but a lot of the stances where, you know, you block with your left and you come in with your right, you know, whatever.
Speaker B:And so, so I guess that's the predominant style, but I didn't know enough about boxing mechanics to be able to pick that up.
Speaker B:But some say this was.
Speaker B:I guess he did switch then.
Speaker D:Yeah, it's like in baseball you got a left handed pitcher against the left batter, right batter.
Speaker D:It's.
Speaker D:There's a lot more to just throwing punches and boxing.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:So.
Speaker B:And, and I, I loved Mickey I just love Mickey, but, you know, you get goosebumps when Mickey's like, speed, spade, spade.
Speaker B:You know, it's just.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, it.
Speaker D:At the beginning, though, during their training, he's half assing it.
Speaker D:Rocky's half assing, training like a bum.
Speaker B:Well, it's because of Adrian, right?
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker D:He's not supporting him.
Speaker C:Not.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:He's working at the pet shop across the street still.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Not.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:No, not into it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:He is half ass attorney because his heart's not into it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Even though he got what he wanted.
Speaker C:Which I think is why.
Speaker C:Well, I call it a false defeat.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, he.
Speaker C:Bad guys closing in too, Right.
Speaker C:Because they cut with his half assing with Apollo, like overturning.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:You just give me another one.
Speaker C:He's knocking out his sparring partners left and right and does not give a shit.
Speaker C:Just give me another one.
Speaker D:I'm the best.
Speaker C:I'm the best.
Speaker C:I'm the best.
Speaker C:Women love you.
Speaker B:He's the tiger.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But if Adrian doesn't approve, that's robbing him of all his joy for.
Speaker C:Correct.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker B:One more line from the chicken scene.
Speaker B:Why do I got chase chicken first?
Speaker B:Because I said so.
Speaker C:Right, Right.
Speaker D:Greased lightning.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:His heart is not in it.
Speaker B:Not on board.
Speaker B:Adrian is working on.
Speaker B:On his mind, you know, obviously 500 times hit the bag and he's like, what was that?
Speaker B:Seven or eight, you know.
Speaker C:Which one was that?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like you said, ap good.
Speaker B:Rocky has no spirit.
Speaker B:Slower and slower.
Speaker B:And it's interesting because Mickey will say here, trying to.
Speaker B:To encourage him.
Speaker B:You'll be.
Speaker B:You'll be, you know, eating lightning and crap and thunder.
Speaker B:You'll be the beast.
Speaker B:You know, we'll have to put you in a cage, kid, again this time, you know, because you're so.
Speaker B:But again, a reference.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker C:So all I remembered was the.
Speaker C:The eating, lighting and crapping thunder.
Speaker C:Missed the cage.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:All right, so here, here's where we're differing a little bit on the structure.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So Adrian, which, to your point, all.
Speaker C:Of that feels like funny games.
Speaker C:How can it not, you know, chasing a damn chicken.
Speaker B:Right, Right.
Speaker B:I think that's fun and games.
Speaker B:And I think the midpoint is you have a false victory earlier on.
Speaker B:I have it as a false defeat because Adrian has gone down.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker B:And Mickey is turning his back on him.
Speaker B:You're a bum.
Speaker B:Don't you come back here if you, you know, so he's.
Speaker B:I think he's.
Speaker B:I think it's a false defeat.
Speaker B:The midpoint is Adrian going down.
Speaker B:Because then we're gonna start talking about the dark night of the soul and the bad guys closing in.
Speaker B:And so I have.
Speaker B:The midpoint is the false defeat with Adrian in a coma and Mickey almost seemingly turning his back on him.
Speaker B:And then the all is lost, which has now has to be a false victory.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Well, Adrian still hasn't woken up, but the all is lost.
Speaker B:I have a false victory as Mickey is now back on his side.
Speaker B:You're a hell of a kid.
Speaker B:A lot more than.
Speaker B:Than the bum kid, you know.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:I'm only gonna say this once, and then I ain't gonna say it no more.
Speaker B:But if you just want to sit here and throw it away, well, I'll throw it away with you.
Speaker B:And every others.
Speaker B:I'm about to cry every other scene up to the point of breaking the three.
Speaker B:Mickey is sitting right there with him, you know?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So that's where I have the.
Speaker B:The midpoint is the Adrian going down.
Speaker B:And I skipped all his loss.
Speaker B:But the all's loss is false victory.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:The bad guys are.
Speaker B:Adrian isn't waking up and Rocky's spirit is gone.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So these.
Speaker B:These are his bad guys, his own demons.
Speaker B:All is lost.
Speaker B:I have Mickey back on his side, and he stays with Rocky the whole time.
Speaker B:And again, I think these occurred fairly quickly because the dark night of the soul.
Speaker B:Adrian showing no signs of recovery.
Speaker B:Rocky can't leave her side.
Speaker B:He actually says, you know, can you hear me, Adrian?
Speaker B:Keep listening.
Speaker B:He's reading to her.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:And then Adrian wakes up.
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker B:They see the baby together.
Speaker B:This is the dig down.
Speaker B:Name the kid after the father.
Speaker B:And then she says, one thing I want you to do for me, win and music keys.
Speaker B:And I'm crying like a baby.
Speaker B:And off we go.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I mean.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:It's interesting because.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Because I guess I have the training, you know, Kentucky Fried idiot training like a bum.
Speaker C:Like, Mickey even says, I liked you better when you were carrying spit buckets.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, Mickey's hard man.
Speaker C:So I have all that as bad guys clothes in.
Speaker C:And then Adrian still not supporting Apollo over here who's preparing to kill him.
Speaker C:You're right.
Speaker C:And then the always losses her going down.
Speaker C:That's what I have.
Speaker C:It is Mickey.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Turns back on him.
Speaker C:You know, don't ever come back here.
Speaker C:Whatever Kicks him out of the gym.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And then her going.
Speaker C:See, all that works.
Speaker B:Because that is certainly like he's losing everything.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I mean, so I can definitely see feet, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Dark nights, them sitting around and then you're seeing with the church because.
Speaker C:Yeah, because that's.
Speaker C:I think Mickey staying with him and not turning his back is, you know, part of his, you know, dark night soul and dig down deep and still committing, you know.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:No, I can see that I struggled with these.
Speaker C:No, same here.
Speaker C:I mean, I was.
Speaker C:My instinct was do it the way you did it.
Speaker C:But I guess I was fighting against the.
Speaker C:The time.
Speaker B:Timing.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Just a really long debate and then like a whole bunch of beats all at the end.
Speaker C:You know, it's weird.
Speaker D:You keep saying timing.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:What do you mean?
Speaker D:I.
Speaker D:I've read a little bit about that.
Speaker D:Like something's supposed to happen in the first.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:10% of the movie night are so strict, I guess on his form that like you're breaking into two.
Speaker C:Like your setups, one to 10 minutes.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Your callus is by 12 minutes in.
Speaker C:Your breaking two happens by 25 minutes in.
Speaker B:So for an hour and a half movie.
Speaker C:For an hour and a half movie.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's a two hour movie.
Speaker C:So hour and 50 minutes.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Because he's got it at 110 on the.
Speaker C:The final images.
Speaker B:Oh, my DVD.
Speaker B:It was saying like 158 now.
Speaker C:Oh, I thought you're talking about hour and a half movie for.
Speaker B:Oh, no, no, no.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So Rocky is.
Speaker B:So you push those numbers out for a two hour movie.
Speaker B:Yeah, a little bit.
Speaker C:That's what his debates are.
Speaker C:12 minutes to his debates from page 12 to 24.
Speaker C:So you know, it gives you wiggle room there, right?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:You need 12 minutes of debate.
Speaker C:Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't, I guess.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker D:It's not a completely rigid.
Speaker D:Rigid structure.
Speaker D:It is a.
Speaker D:It's flexible.
Speaker B:There is, but.
Speaker C:There is.
Speaker C:But like by 25, like that's pretty set.
Speaker C:Like.
Speaker C:Like by 30 minutes into the movie.
Speaker C:First I hear that your character will be breaking into two 30 minutes into the movie, according to Snyder.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It should be a half hour for the first act, half hour for the third act, and an hour for the middle act.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:That makes.
Speaker C:But midpoints, 55 minutes and we're getting.
Speaker D:Off Rocky just a little bit.
Speaker D:But if a movie doesn't have those things, does it just feel wrong?
Speaker D:Like if you have a midpoint, that's.
Speaker B:Well, I think the mid.
Speaker D:20 minutes into the movie and.
Speaker C:No, not to me.
Speaker C:Like, it just depends, I think.
Speaker C:Well, I think it's a fine line if you are still into it.
Speaker C:And it's not you know, I mean, like, if.
Speaker C:If some of the beats are a little bit longer, but they're still not blurry and they hit the way they're supposed to, I think it's more forgiving.
Speaker C:But if it's, say, the character development is lacking or the setup fails to set it up properly so you're not getting a clear character arc or opening and closing image, then it starts to feel well.
Speaker C:And chances are, like, if one of the beats is wrong, then some of the others are, and then now that feels really wrong.
Speaker B:Well, like, for the.
Speaker C:That's what I call, I think, movie, you know?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker B:The setup for Rocky, okay, so, like, the midpoint is not at the hour.
Speaker B:I didn't write down the time, but it's.
Speaker B:It's not at 50, 59 minutes.
Speaker B:I think most of the setup.
Speaker C:Midpoint is just playing.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I think most of the setup is still happening well into an hour, and it should have been over, like, 30 minutes before that.
Speaker B:But you ask yourself, and.
Speaker B:And it didn't affect me at all.
Speaker B:Was I at any time bored in that first hour?
Speaker B:I wasn't.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:That's where, like, somebody like my wife was, you know, so it's interesting to your point, because it was.
Speaker C:But I don't think she finds Rocky near as charming as we do, you.
Speaker B:Know, and to my way of thinking, after the midpoint, you have the bad guys, Dark Knight, and all is lost.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:These were, to me, fairly short beats.
Speaker B:They, you know.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So you had a long setup getting to the midpoint, and then I think a rapid movement through the three beats up to the third act.
Speaker B:Because by the time these happen, the movie is two thirds over.
Speaker B:And we're talking about training in the fight now.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, if you look at it like so on mine, like, the breaking of three is her.
Speaker C:You know what?
Speaker C:You do something for me when, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, I have that as.
Speaker C:And then music, like I said, music kicks in.
Speaker C:Tears.
Speaker B:What are we waiting for?
Speaker C:Yeah, we're waiting for music kicks in.
Speaker C:But that's his breaking.
Speaker C:If that.
Speaker C:To me, that's his breaking in three.
Speaker C:But it's all the training and the fight.
Speaker C:That's a lot, you know?
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker D:Well, I know that is the back half of the second act.
Speaker D:The third is.
Speaker D:I'm standing in the ring.
Speaker D:I was hoping he wouldn't show up.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, that.
Speaker B:That 10.
Speaker B:That technically could be true because he's.
Speaker B:He's storming the castle at that point.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Oh, you mean the training and stuff.
Speaker B:Well, the fight is storming the castle.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:So training still fun and games to me.
Speaker C:Because even when he's training the right.
Speaker D:Correct properly with the music going, and if you'll notice, I guess the directing style or whatever, it's a lot brighter.
Speaker D:Rocky's wearing tighter fitting clothes.
Speaker D:He got rid of the holy sweaters and stuff and he's bouncing around with the logs.
Speaker C:I don't guess I noticed.
Speaker D:And it's.
Speaker D:Yeah, it's just a lot more upbeat.
Speaker C:More upbeat, right.
Speaker D:It's fun.
Speaker D:It's like, yeah, we're gonna go kick some ass.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, so I have the, the, the, the act breaks.
Speaker B:It's interesting.
Speaker B:I just thought of it here.
Speaker B:But you know, act two, I think we should knock his block off.
Speaker B:Act three, what are we waiting for?
Speaker C:Yeah, right.
Speaker C:I do think there's one thing I've noticed as we started doing this podcast and I kind of write them down as, as they occur to me when I watch them is there's a lot of, you know, I feel like you picked up on visual cues of going into the next act, you know, going through doorways and different stuff.
Speaker C:There's a lot of dialogue cues too.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker C:Going into, you know, different, different breaks.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, absolutely.
Speaker B:And then I, you know, what are you waiting for?
Speaker B:And then, of course, this is what you get with Rock.
Speaker B:I wrote down the words.
Speaker B:Awesome montage.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:You know, I think Stallone taught the world how to do a montage.
Speaker C:For sure.
Speaker B:You know, and I wrote down these movies always get me.
Speaker B:Stallone made us love Rocky so much that we were always rooting for him.
Speaker B:I cry every time that's, you know, he catches the chicken.
Speaker B:Speed, speed, speed.
Speaker B:I just, I love speed.
Speaker D:Yeah, but it was, it was such a good contrast from the previous montage.
Speaker D:Scenes of him just hitting the bag, screwing up.
Speaker D:And he's hitting the.
Speaker D:Now this.
Speaker D:You're like, yeah, he's doing it.
Speaker D:He's.
Speaker D:He was struggling so much before and now he's kicking ass.
Speaker C:Everybody's in his corner too, like, so obviously Adrian woke up.
Speaker C:Says when.
Speaker C:Yeah, Mickey's back on board.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Which I guess, you know, since start training, you know, he told him, get the hell out of the gym.
Speaker C:He didn't leave him.
Speaker C:But the whole city too.
Speaker C:He's running kids.
Speaker C:And I think they, I mean, they cut to Apollo like after all that, after the big moment of he's on the steps, all these kids look at him.
Speaker C:They cut to Apollo alone, right?
Speaker B:No, no, this is.
Speaker C:And Apollo's wife never supported Him.
Speaker C:And even his trainer said, let it go.
Speaker C:Like, nobody's supporting.
Speaker B:Well, it's, It's.
Speaker B:I actually wrote down because it's definitely, I think, the tiger thing, but it's.
Speaker B:It's humility versus pride.
Speaker B:Right, Apollo?
Speaker C:It's all about pride.
Speaker B:Adrian.
Speaker B:Rocky's doing this for his family, right?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Apollo is doing this because of his pride.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker B:And that's why he has to lose.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:He's got it.
Speaker B:And later on, of course, we know he falls victim to this pride, like, fatally.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You know, when he.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Cue the music and the tears.
Speaker B:That's what I wrote.
Speaker B:So the fight, always the underdog, but with the heart of the tiger.
Speaker B:I think it's funny that he's almost late to the his match.
Speaker B:Like, he's making these stops and I need a blessing in case I get beat up real bad, you know, maybe it won't hurt so much.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:You know, I think Mickey was ready to kill him when he got there.
Speaker C:He's in there pacing and.
Speaker C:What the hell are you doing?
Speaker C:We got a fight to do.
Speaker D:You like this robe?
Speaker D:It's nice.
Speaker C:It was better than last year's.
Speaker C:Remember that rope?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:He said, they're standing there and, you know Rocky.
Speaker B:Hey, Nick, just so you know, I'm gonna try real hard for you tonight, okay?
Speaker B:Thanks, kid.
Speaker B:Like, he's.
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker D:You look surprised.
Speaker D:I didn't think you'd show up.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm gonna be real trying real hard for you.
Speaker B:Thanks.
Speaker B:I was hoping he wouldn't show.
Speaker B:Would it bother you?
Speaker B:He's still upset.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:You know, and then I guess, you know, Apollo says he's going down and, you know, I'm standing.
Speaker B:I'm still standing there, you know.
Speaker C:Still standing here.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Because I guess Creed.
Speaker D:Apollo at some point said, I'm gonna knock him out.
Speaker D:I'm not gonna go for a technical victory.
Speaker D:I'm going to knock him, him out.
Speaker C:Which.
Speaker C:Yeah, because he had the match one points wise.
Speaker C:All he had to do was say, wait, the announcer say that.
Speaker C:I think that's one thing that Stallone does really well, too, in all the Rocky movies is he has the announcers, their dialogue helps with the fight commentary.
Speaker B:Another round for kiddo.
Speaker C:I know that's what they're doing, but.
Speaker C:Yeah, like, it just even talks about.
Speaker C:Not just the.
Speaker C:Like you said, another round for Creed.
Speaker C:Just so you know, who's obviously, visually, you see Rocky get beaten up, but just the.
Speaker C:How are these two guys standing?
Speaker C:Or just like.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:It's really cool.
Speaker D:These guys prepare for World War 3.
Speaker D:These guys have just gone through hell, right?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's like you could just read their commentary and understand how the fight goes, like, without visuals.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Because a lot of people, you know, listen on radio.
Speaker C:I know, but like, he didn't have to put that in the script.
Speaker C:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:No, no, it's not.
Speaker B:No, it's absolutely.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So then, then the fight, you know.
Speaker D:And that's where it comes back.
Speaker D:The southpaw thing.
Speaker D:If it throws Creed off because he was ready to knock his block off.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:He says it didn't throws it.
Speaker C:I would think it hurt ball at him.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Did the change up or switch?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Duke asked him, did the change up or switch?
Speaker C:You know.
Speaker C:No, it didn't affect nothing, man.
Speaker C:Like.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's not willing to admit any weakness or whatever.
Speaker C:But even.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Duke was wanting him to stay away.
Speaker C:And there's some.
Speaker C:Some cool lines there that I didn't realize it till later, but Duke calls Rocky dangerous to Apollo.
Speaker C:This man's dangerous.
Speaker C:And Apollo immediately goes, oh, I'm dangerous.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Later in Creed 2, Rocky's trying to convince Adonis not to fight Drago's son, and he's dangerous.
Speaker C:And Donald said, I'm dangerous.
Speaker C:And then he ends up losing.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And then later, like, there's called back even more for the final fight.
Speaker C:Rocky tells, you know, adonis, you're dangerous.
Speaker C:It's really cool, that one.
Speaker C:Stallone remembered all the dialogue all those years, you know, did he go back and watch him or did he just remember?
Speaker C:I don't know, but it's really cool.
Speaker C:Just all the dialogue callbacks.
Speaker B:And Stallone has always been an enigma to me because you get an impression of Stallone from Rocky.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And he was injured at birth, a nerve pinched in his.
Speaker B:And so he has this slur and it's because of a pinched nerve.
Speaker B:But man.
Speaker B:So you think, oh, Stallone, he's, you know, he's lame brain.
Speaker B:You know, he's a lazy.
Speaker B:What is it?
Speaker B:Slow brain.
Speaker C:What got like a relaxed brain.
Speaker B:Relaxed brain, yeah.
Speaker B:So you think Stone does, but, but, but he, he can.
Speaker B:He knows story and he can write.
Speaker B:And it's, it's always.
Speaker B:And I know I shouldn't be surprised, but it's always sort of weird for me to think of Rocky Balboa sitting down and writing an Academy Award winning script.
Speaker B:And I know that's not fair, but that's, that's the power of his character and acting too.
Speaker B:I Guess you know, that you.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And to me, like, if you look at him in other movies, like.
Speaker C:Like Get Carter or even Tango and Cash.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like, to me, I hate to call it sophisticated, but, like, the.
Speaker C:There's not relaxed brain stuff in there.
Speaker C:You know what I mean?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Get Carter is real good.
Speaker B:I like that movie.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I like Good Car a lot, too.
Speaker D:I'm a fan of Tango and Cash myself.
Speaker C:Yeah, right.
Speaker D:I got that one on dvd.
Speaker C:Oh.
Speaker D:Tonight.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Trading punches both fall, but the man with the heart stands up.
Speaker B:Final image.
Speaker B:We did it, you know.
Speaker C:Well, and also something that struck me that, you know, I've seen this many thousand times, but he's sitting there and he's, you know, he's holding his belt and he says, with the exception of my kid being born, it's the greatest night of my life.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And they cut to Adrian.
Speaker C:Like, I feel like, to me, like, what I got out of it watching it this time is she finally understood what that meant to her.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:You know what I mean?
Speaker C:You see her.
Speaker C:Because she was kind of holding, like you said, keeping the tiger in the cage, and she finally understood, you know, to me, like.
Speaker C:And it's all, like, she doesn't have any dialogue.
Speaker C:You just see it on her face.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like, she.
Speaker C:Her acting in this whole series is really, really good.
Speaker C:No, no, with minimal dialogue.
Speaker C:Like, she just does a lot of, you know, good stuff.
Speaker C:Well, just her reactions to him and.
Speaker C:Can you drive?
Speaker C:I mean, that's from dialogue.
Speaker B:I'm one of the best ever.
Speaker B:Was right?
Speaker C:They'll drive you crazy.
Speaker C:Give me a chance.
Speaker C:Yeah, but just, like, she knew she'd seen this dude walk everywhere.
Speaker C:She knew he couldn't drive.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And I don't know if it's.
Speaker B:I don't know if it's ever really brought out, but at some point, she must have realized that I fell in love with Rocky and that's who he is.
Speaker B:I didn't fall in love with a guy who.
Speaker B:I didn't fall in love with the meat packer.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I don't want him to fight because they get hurt, but part of who Rocky is is the fighter, and that's part that I love, because that's who he is.
Speaker B:And I think she realizes, well, this is the guy I love and this is who he is.
Speaker B:I gotta.
Speaker B:If I love him, I gotta let him be.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Who he is or whatever.
Speaker C:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:There's a.
Speaker D:There's a weird fact about the.
Speaker D:The fight scene with Adrian and Paulie at the house or whatever.
Speaker D:That was filmed way later.
Speaker B:Really?
Speaker D:Yeah, they.
Speaker C:Yeah, I read that.
Speaker D:Impose that into the fight just for the emotional aspect.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:You know, I read that she was making something else and couldn't be at the arena, like, when they.
Speaker C:When they had the.
Speaker B:Really.
Speaker C:When they had rented it out or whatever, so that Stallone's like, all right, well, we'll just come up with some stuff.
Speaker C:But the doctor says she's got to stay at the house.
Speaker B:Yeah, I did.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I did.
Speaker B:That's the only point where I thought it was a little weak because it sounded like, okay, you reminded me that she can't be there, because I know she's going to be there.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker B:You know, whatever.
Speaker C:It's the only time Adrian and Paulie aren't ringside.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it just.
Speaker B:You're telling me she can't be there.
Speaker B:Got it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:But you're there with her as she's crying and laughing and.
Speaker C:Oh, my God, it never bothered me before, but, yeah, watching it and learning the.
Speaker C:The backstory, I guess, behind it was interesting, but, yeah, it didn't.
Speaker C:Didn't bother me before.
Speaker D:And then they.
Speaker D:And then he holds up the.
Speaker D:Well, I don't know if they.
Speaker D:We got to that part yet about the fight.
Speaker D:The end of the fight, he wins, knocks out, holds up the belt.
Speaker D:Yo, Adrian.
Speaker C:Adrian, I did it.
Speaker B:Yeah, so, yeah, I think a lot.
Speaker C:Of people think it's from the first one, but.
Speaker C:But it's not.
Speaker C:It's from that one because he didn't win the first time.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker C:I mean, he still did it.
Speaker D:It is still in the first one.
Speaker D:He's yelling for Adrian.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:But I think a lot of people think, Yo, Adrian is from Rocky, but it's.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So you got.
Speaker B:So there are your images, right?
Speaker B:The two fights, right?
Speaker C:Y.
Speaker B:And the difference is, you know, he.
Speaker B:He showed the world what they only thought before, Right.
Speaker B:So, I mean.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:And he proved to Apollo he got feet soundly.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:When does.
Speaker B:When does him and Apollo become friends?
Speaker C:Like in the third one.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Because when he loses to Mr.
Speaker C:T, Apollo offers to train him because Mickey dies, like, in his, I guess, mid-80s, early-80s, actually.
Speaker C:I guess as cheesy as they can kind of feel with three, like, we talked about that earlier, that three and four kind of start to go down a certain path as far as story, like, and the continuation of the series.
Speaker C:Like, there's a lot of really good beats to me that make sense.
Speaker C:In three, Mickey dies, Apollo you know, comes in and trains him and because.
Speaker C:And brings Rocky back and even trains up his style, like, finally shows him.
Speaker C:Look, man, you gotta stop taking these punches on the face.
Speaker C:You gotta have some defense and move.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah, it's really good.
Speaker D:You should have fired Mickey years ago.
Speaker B:Yeah, because I remember Rocky.
Speaker C:Another shot to the face, kid.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I remember Rocky being just cut and fast.
Speaker B:Like, you know, being just in a.
Speaker C:Man.
Speaker C:They didn't have until three.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker B:Because I definitely.
Speaker C:And again, I think it's where Stallone's career started to take off too.
Speaker C:And became this.
Speaker C:He got more crickets in Rainbow Rambo.
Speaker C:He's cut Rainbow Chewies.
Speaker B:Did he have to stand on his head so he didn't pass out?
Speaker B:This is a story.
Speaker C:That's Rocky four.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:Rocky three.
Speaker D:He doesn't remember filming three.
Speaker C:I'm sorry, you're right, it's three.
Speaker C:I said four, but it's three.
Speaker D:He was on such a restricted diet.
Speaker C:Two percent body fat or some bullshit.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And he said years later, he's like, you can't maintain that.
Speaker C:That was nuts.
Speaker C:Now that he's older, him.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker D:And he was.
Speaker D:How much did he weigh at that point in Rocky 3?
Speaker D:I think it was like 160.
Speaker C:Was it that low?
Speaker C:I know in the movie they say it's like 180 something because he goes from 200 pounds to like.
Speaker B:He's like 200 because.
Speaker C:But he was.
Speaker B:Apollo's like 220.
Speaker B:I was surprised that Apollo outweighed him.
Speaker D:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:How tall is he?
Speaker B:Salon is short, I've heard.
Speaker B:Is that right?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:5, 8, 5 9.
Speaker C:Yeah, but I don't think he's.
Speaker C:Yeah, he's shorter.
Speaker C:Which speaks to the.
Speaker C:If he's 160, you know, it doesn't sound as small.
Speaker C:I mean, as it is Mike Tyson.
Speaker D:Tyson's not gigantically tall.
Speaker C:He's a shorter guy, too.
Speaker D:220, but either way.
Speaker C:And I think Schwarzenegger's 6 foot or.
Speaker C:Or, you know, so.
Speaker C:But he always seemed taller.
Speaker C:He always seemed like seven foot growing up.
Speaker C:And as I got older, I realized, oh, he's not that, you know, as tall as I thought he was.
Speaker D:Oh, well, all right.
Speaker D:Yeah, this was.
Speaker D:Oh, I got to do the pass recommend.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:Consider.
Speaker B:Pass recommend.
Speaker B:It's Rocky, man.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:I mean, dig in.
Speaker B:You know, I.
Speaker B:I recommend it.
Speaker B:I had.
Speaker B:I grew up on 3 and 4 and 5.
Speaker B:Not 5, 3 and 4.
Speaker B:The two I remember are Mr.
Speaker B:T and the Russian.
Speaker B:And I saw this in the theater right you know, I know I didn't see one and two in the theater, and I was really hard pressed to remember ever seeing it, but I was totally on board, man, with one and two.
Speaker B:And I was very surprised by that.
Speaker B:As old and as they were, you know, and kind of different, like James was saying, from.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:What they became.
Speaker B:But I was totally.
Speaker B:I am a sucker for Rocky, man.
Speaker D:You know, I'm the same way.
Speaker D:Like, I love it.
Speaker D:Love the whole series, apart from five.
Speaker D:I'll watch five.
Speaker D:If I'm just watching all of them.
Speaker C:I have a hard time, but I skip it, man.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Well, this one, Rocky 2, when I watched it for the third, fourth, and fifth time this month, I found myself skipping through all the Adrian scenes because she just.
Speaker D:She.
Speaker D:She pulled me down, man.
Speaker D:I was.
Speaker D:She bummed me out.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:In the later ones.
Speaker D:No, in the.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker D:I was like.
Speaker C:She's like, I've never been a big fan of Adrian.
Speaker C:It's like Adrian, it's like the heart of the series.
Speaker C:But they said the same thing that you're saying.
Speaker D:She rubbed her down wrong.
Speaker D:But maybe that's just Talia Shire.
Speaker D:Is that her name?
Speaker D:Tally?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Sounds right.
Speaker D:You know, she's an excellent actress, so it's just me.
Speaker D:But the movies are great.
Speaker D:Totally.
Speaker D:Watch them all.
Speaker D:Go for it.
Speaker C:Yeah, Same here.
Speaker C:It's definitely a recommend.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Obviously.
Speaker C:Big Rocky fan.
Speaker C:I don't know which.
Speaker C:You know what?
Speaker C:I'd say this, but I probably didn't see a Rocky movie in theater till Rocky Balboa.
Speaker C:Really?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I don't think I saw.
Speaker C:Pretty sure.
Speaker C:I didn't see five and then.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:The others, I must have, you know, watched them on.
Speaker C:On tape or TV or whatever when they.
Speaker C:It's interesting.
Speaker C:I can remember which Star wars movie I saw first, but I can't remember which Rocky movie I saw first.
Speaker C:But it had to have been like three or four or something.
Speaker C:Those had to be, you know, the ones, you know, that.
Speaker C:Like I said, it's like, kid, you know, you had the most action and move the quickest.
Speaker D:I was like, why do they call this movie Rocky 4?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:What happened to the rest of them?
Speaker B:Yeah, I don't know that even.
Speaker B:I think I was aware of them, but I.
Speaker B:I didn't ever seek them out.
Speaker B:But then, I mean, I guess there was rental places at that point.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker B:But certainly no streaming.
Speaker B:And this.
Speaker B:It was all vhs, so I probably didn't seek them out or whatever.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:But the 80s, it became this, you know, big.
Speaker B:The big blockbuster movies coming out and Rocky 3 and 4 were, you know, you.
Speaker B:You went and saw it.
Speaker B:I remember seeing Redmond, the theater.
Speaker B:I probably saw more movies in the eighties in the theater than I ever have since.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker B:You know, just because it was.
Speaker C:And I think, and we've talked about this before, but I think, you know, the 80s produce probably the best, highest quality of movies ever, in my opinion.
Speaker C:There's still good movies out, but I think it's waning for sure.
Speaker C:Like just the variety and the.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Especially original content.
Speaker C:My God.
Speaker C:I mean, it's.
Speaker C:It's helping now with all the streamers and stuff, but it's all going.
Speaker C:It doesn't matter the format.
Speaker C:It used to bother me.
Speaker C:Like I remember directed to, you know, direct to DVD or TV used to be the kind of this where actors careers go to die.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:But it's, you know, that's turning around now.
Speaker C:I mean, you're, you know, all these actors that.
Speaker C:I don't want to be a superhero.
Speaker C:They go and find some original content on some streamer somewhere.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Like right now we're getting so many stories.
Speaker C:It's really cool.
Speaker C:But anyhow, as far as movies, I feel like the 80s was a special time.
Speaker B:Yes, sir.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker A:Well, we've had the DVDs, the Rocky DVDs for a long time, have we not?
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, Box I bought a long time ago.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And I've never really said, okay, well, let's sit down and watch them.
Speaker A:Now that we, you know, had.
Speaker A:I'd hate to say had to, but we were, you know, chose or Chris chose.
Speaker C:It's okay to say had to.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:We had to watch.
Speaker A:And I said, well, I've got to watch Rocky because I've never seen.
Speaker A:Kept my attention.
Speaker A:I was surprised.
Speaker A:I enjoyed them.
Speaker A:I want to watch now the rest of them to follow up.
Speaker A:Yeah, I won't go back and watch them again, probably.
Speaker A:But like I said, I think.
Speaker A:I think the only one I had ever seen was four because I do remember that whole storyline with.
Speaker A:He fought a Russian.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I don't.
Speaker B:I will break him.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't remember Mr.
Speaker A:T.
Speaker A:So you said that was three?
Speaker B:Yeah, I think so.
Speaker B:That's the first one I saw.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, yeah, he was big then, right?
Speaker B:I mean, he.
Speaker C:It's his first movie, but yeah, I think he'd done 18 already.
Speaker B:It was Mr.
Speaker B:T cereal.
Speaker B:That was Mr.
Speaker B:T everything.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I feel like even the way Stallone wrote the role for.
Speaker C:For his characters is just good stuff.
Speaker C:Like at one point so now I.
Speaker A:Have to go back.
Speaker B:And he looks like a villain.
Speaker B:Looks like.
Speaker C:Yeah, no, he's pacing back and forth in the locker room or whatever, and the press is, you know.
Speaker C:You know.
Speaker C:But can you give us a statement?
Speaker C:Sorry.
Speaker C:Go ahead, Sherry.
Speaker A:No, I'm just saying I really did like the character of Rocky, and I liked Adrian.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I thought it was a sweet story.
Speaker A:I mean, it was a love story with boxing, to me, so.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Two simple people trying to make their way in the world, you know?
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I really like Rocky.
Speaker A:I mean, the character.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Rocky makes.
Speaker B:He makes you absolutely love him.
Speaker B:And so you're on board for anything he does, you know?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:You know, Stacy wouldn't have gone for.
Speaker C:She's seen Rocky 1, but she wouldn't have gone for watching 1 and 2 like you guys did.
Speaker C:But, yeah, just.
Speaker C:I don't just think about it.
Speaker C:There's some good moments.
Speaker C:In one, I guess earlier you comment about why two over one.
Speaker C:Yeah, I thought about one, but again, I just.
Speaker C:I think two is my favorite.
Speaker C:But there's some good moments in there.
Speaker C:When.
Speaker C:In one, after the press conference.
Speaker C:And one.
Speaker C:And Apollo was saying all this shitty stuff about Rocky and making fun of him and stuff.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And then I think.
Speaker C:I think it's Paulie that asks him, hey, Rocco, you're gonna let him talk to him?
Speaker C:Oh, he don't bother me.
Speaker C:Don't bother me none.
Speaker C:And then he goes outside after the press conference.
Speaker C:He's leaving the house, and it's just him and Adrian, like, on the porch, and he has this moment.
Speaker C:It's like one of my favorite moments in the whole movie.
Speaker C:He goes, you know, I said that stuff doesn't bother me none.
Speaker C:Yeah, it does.
Speaker C:And then he walks off like.
Speaker C:I love that moment.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Because, you know, he acts tough and stuff, but.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, yeah, he's a big.
Speaker B:He's all heart.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And that's the thing that makes you love him, but it's also the thing that gets him to stand up when you know Apollo.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's good stuff, man.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker C:All righty.
Speaker B:So that's Rocky 2.
Speaker B:Good deal.
Speaker B:We're out.
Speaker B:What you're seeing is a tiger in the cage, and tigers don't belong in cages, man.
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker B:And I was like, okay, I'll get through this.
Speaker B:But I was amazed.
Speaker D:These are completely different styles of story.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Do you think.
Speaker A:Was it right after he did rhinestone or something, did you run up the stairs?
Speaker C:I didn't.
Speaker C:And I should have had my Rocky moment, then.
Speaker B:Trip and fall, but that's what I think.
Speaker B:That's what you get with a Rocky movie, though, cuz.
Speaker C:Yeah, the meanest mug look ever, you know?
Speaker C:You son of a.
Speaker C:But anyhow.
Speaker B:Yeah, you get goosebumps when Mickey's like, speed, spade, speed, you know?
Speaker A:I mean, it was a love story with boxing.
Speaker B:To me, it gets you, man.
