STAR TREK II THE WRATH OF KHAN

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at this point in the movie I'm like okay well here's here's what you should have done and I'm thinking yeah right

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one of my favorite openings ever and I've watched that alternate ending and it is garbage it doesn't go where you

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think it's going to go there's a monster I am I'm ready for it to be oh well but

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I'm not sure I can even fully uh explain why I love this movie so much [Music]

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my feelings on it have not changed I fell asleep until the screaming this

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is actually where I started enjoying the movie it's one of my favorite scenes in all of Cinema

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I thought that should have been cut well I'm sure it's artistic and you just

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don't get it all right finally after the third attempt we are we're back technical difficulties yeah

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uh it has been so long since we recorded that uh you know some buttons were pushed that shouldn't have been pushed

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in this kind of thing and we'll see how that plays and maybe we'll leave it in maybe we won't I think buttons are always pushed it shouldn't be pushed

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yeah personally but no well that's one of my skill sets welcome to what we're

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calling season two of uh Fellowship of the real and in honor of that we have

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decided to do four sequels this time we are recording for uh I guess we're doing

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wrath first is that we're deciding yeah Star Trek 2 the Wrath of Khan uh will be this episode and that is my pick uh but

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before we get started Sherry had an idea because we're always quoting movies or

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saying movie lines she wanted to see maybe how smart we thought we really were and so we're gonna do a short

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segment where Sherry uh tests our knowledge of some movie lines uh I don't know if we have a name for this yet uh

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but I do have a bumper for it so we're gonna do Sherry history time we'll come up with name him name and place later

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[Music]

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all right Jay you're on this is your yes I wanted to see how

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smart you are um now some of these are very famous they're like on the top 50 uh list of

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most famous movie lines some of them are lines that you may have heard someone

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say and some of them are just I think they're so funny and so cool and that

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you hopefully you will know what movie they're from because they're so unique so anyway all

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right all right so the first one I have is one of these uh you'll ask them yeah what are the rules we don't chime in

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right like we if we know how do you want to do that well because there's no buzzer right no there's no buzzer so

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this is the first person who know it shout it out do we like just blurt it out just I guess blurt it out but okay

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you may want to let me finish saying sure but they all have our own uh buzzer

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sounds I can go like quack quack you can go ring ring right okay okay y'all ready yeah go

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ahead okay this is like it was like I think the number one line most famous

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and one list I looked at all right the first one is frankly my dear I don't

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give a damn that's going with the win yes yes of course okay all right that was it you have to answer in the form of a question

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it doesn't matter you can say the name of the movie the name of the character or whoever do you know what characters

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that is yes yes yeah that's a softball okay that's a warm-up all right okay okay all

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right all right the next one and this is I love watching this movie over and over so

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all right the next one I'm just a girl standing in front of a boy asking him to love me Nottingham Notting Hill no

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that's why I don't know that one see I was like I didn't know if you guys would know that or not no I I know it was

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Julia Roberts what was her name in that movie it was you again what was her name yeah and something all right yeah and

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Scott I have that painting in my house I think it is Amscot yeah that's it's uh

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no it's something Scott Anna Scott Anna Scott so I have that the the picture

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that they I don't know you haven't seen it but the picture she gives to him at the end I have one of those in my house

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because I liked it so much Notting Hill it's like it's a Chagall yeah yeah Julia

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Roberts No Love Story lost me both of them like when it's yeah that's up there on my list I like it I mean it's funny

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and yeah yeah it's I mean she's doing the interview stuff um I know I'm not reviewing this movie and it's gonna be sitting here in a

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minute what movie are we talking about but like I liked the bit where he uh

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he's trying to interview her and he's he's lying about who he is right and or not trying to interview her but he's

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he's learned about who he is he's from Horse and Hound magazine or whatever and they're like well which part of the movie do you like he has no idea he

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hasn't seen this movie he's like uh I like the bit in space like I don't know all right all right yeah not a Hugh

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Grant fan like nine months is also good okay oh uh what was the other the

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Christmas movie oh yeah Love Actually is really good I like that one too what was that movie he was in where he was we

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just watched I didn't write it it's a new movie coming out are you talking about the one that's coming up Statham

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yeah yeah it's like yeah the operation fortune or whatever yeah he's in that yeah okay all right okay and then the

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last one I have for today is um I don't know that it's quoted but

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when I heard it the other day I just thought there's only one movie that could possibly come from so let's see if

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y'all know it I've never seen that I've never seen anybody drive their garbage down to the

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street and then bang the hell out of it with a stick I've never seen that that's the birds yeah okay I had to get one

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yeah you know I know that's something that no one probably quotes but I'm like you

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gotta know it was [ __ ] out front all week [Music]

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we are doing so welcome to the second season apparently which is uh there's four

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people sitting around talking about movies four friends in a movie uh not necessarily the movie that is on tap to

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be reviewed apparently so this time we're doing Star Trek through the Wrath of Khan uh which is my pick and I

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absolutely I going in I am a Trekkie but I am not as hardcore as some of these

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trekkies can be so while I do have some knowledge of the universe and this and

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all of this which I think is important to the setup of this movie uh there are Star Trek fans who are

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listening who are really looking for like a nerdy Deep dive you may be a little disappointed uh but there are

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certainly Roddenberry podcasts out there that do that uh I subscribe to some of them and they really go into it so and

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you enjoy that or does it I enjoy it but like for instance just the just the

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pre-history of Khan in this movie we could talk about for quite a while yeah uh and I'm gonna touch on some things

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that I think are important but by no means there's a three book Trilogy to this to the con story you know that and

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an episode from the original series we will talk about very briefly because that is important

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anyway so uh I got the blurb here along with the other stuff uh so let me read

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the blurb and then we'll get into our sections uh Star Trek do the Wrath of Khan this is one potential uh blurb as

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as Admiral James T Kirk and Captain Spock monitor trainees at Starfleet Academy another vessel from the United

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Federation of planets is about to try out the planet creating Genesis device in a seemingly deserted portion of space

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in the process two of Kirk's officers are captured by Khan uh played by Ricardo Montalban an enemy Kirk thought

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he'd never see again once more Kirk takes the Enterprise's Helm where he meets Khan's ship in an Intergalactic

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Showdown and that's I think that's pretty fair I think that's fairly accurate as to what the what we're getting here what year was this released

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82 82 82 I remember we had uh breakfast lunch with my mom here not too long ago

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and I was telling her that we're doing this for the podcast and the first thing she said was Ricardo Montalban

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yeah it's like oh all right that's weird I didn't research it but Sherry had some issue with Ricardo montalban's chest in

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this movie yeah it was a prosthetic yeah okay that's what I heard and uh so I was looking I'm not gonna lie every time he was on screen I'm looking going is it

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real the reason you have to question because Ricardo montalbot has always been very swarthy and cut I mean he's

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not a slouch I mean he's right you know uh yeah because he wasn't wearing prosthetic arms right those are his arms

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sure so yeah I don't know it was hard to tell it is for sure confirmed it was prosthetic because it was her that's what I read and I'd always heard that

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yeah but I didn't know that all right all right well let's get into uh I was looking for the lines everything like

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they did a good job no no and it's totally believable that it would be him because you know all right money critics fans

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[Music] okay so uh this movie and I think it

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largely is due to Star Trek fans uh has what I call aliens type numbers right so 86 of the critics three and a

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half stars above and 90 of the fans three and a half stars above so this is I think aliens was like 90 and 94 or

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something so this is right up there uh with aliens I think it had a budget of

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11 million which surprised me up that seems low and I'm kind of happy to see that but 11 million budget and it

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grossed uh worldwide uh almost 80 million 79 million 818 000 uh the bulk

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of that 99 of that came as a domestic release only 110 000 International which means they probably didn't release it

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International which also surprised me because Trek is a universal phenomenon almost like you know Star Wars no and so

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I I can't I can't imagine that there wasn't a worldwide appeal so I don't I didn't research it but I don't know why they wouldn't have released hmm that

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ely International although in: 1982

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which was only 10 years after the series ended and this is five years six seven

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years later whatever so I'm not sure when the phenomenon of conventions started I think it was shortly after the

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series but I don't think it really took off as a as a fandom until a little

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later so 82 may have still been fairly early yeah and we've talked about this before and I guess we should at one point maybe research it and figure out

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when you know the studios and uh you know Hollywood started doing it but talk

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about the international like when did they really start shifting and going hey we can make a lot of money if we do if we have a water release right if we

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start using China you know and that kind of thing yeah because maybe they didn't right in in 82 I don't know

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and maybe they didn't just didn't like you said take off I don't know I feel like they definitely rely on it way more now than

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you know than they used to I must not be in my notes but I did have a a note that

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I wanted to make okay so this is Star Trek 2 the Wrath of Khan because Star Trek one is Star Trek the motion picture

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right which was the reason this is such a great Sequel and it is a great movie I

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think it's solid from top to bottom is it Okay the reason this is such a great

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sequence because the first one was so terrible I think it was made by an artistic director who who prettied up

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the screen but it has nothing to do in my opinion with the original series or

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the Star Trek universe I think it is horrendous uh now I I thought about that and this

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was I think the Star Trek movie that fans were waiting for sure and so this is to me almost a reboot of the

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franchise in terms of at least movies right so I consider this like I don't even I have Star Trek one I rarely watch

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it I don't recommend it to me this is the start of the Star Trek revitalization movies and this kind of

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thing almost a Star Trek one the one that we wanted instead of what we got right and I thought that's interesting

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because when the original series started they came out with a pilot and it was like a two-parter it's called the cage

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and it was hard science fiction and it was very good uh it didn't start Captain Kirk uh it was a the captain before Kirk

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which now they've Spike right Pike yes and they have started strange new worlds to explore his story and stranger was

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amazing uh but it got to the studio and the studio was like well where's all the action this is too cerebral this is too

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blah blah blah we don't want to cancel the series go back and do another pilot and so they had another pilot call where

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no man has gone before and that took off full of action and so I'm like in Star Trek's life this has been the problem

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because it was a Original Episode as the pilot and he got it was canned for not

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being good then they came out with Star Trek one and it wasn't any good and so they came out with Wrath of Khan 2 and

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that's where everything took off so in both instances of the series in the movie there was this initial start that was a false start almost and then they

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went with the second one that really took off that's crazy they're just kind of shows you the uh just I guess the

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like the people willing to to bet on this and pretty no no if we do this right you know Star Trek will work you

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know we just have to do it right I mean because I mean think how many TV shows or movies like don't get sequels or they

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get canceled they'll even get you know uh you know called the season they just do a pilot and the pilot is you know

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nobody likes it or whatever yeah nobody picks it up that's crazy that because Star Trek is actually it's older than

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Star Wars too which is always kind of amazed me yeah it's 64-67. yeah quite a

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bit yeah it got canceled yeah and this was really before they had an accurate

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metric because it got canceled because the metric they were measuring for viewership was not the one that was

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watching the show after it got canceled somebody's digging through the research I don't know the whole story and they

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realize oh my God this was a Smash Hit with this age group right but it was too

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late yeah okay I want to make sure this the TV series was only three seasons yeah 79 episodes that blew me away when

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I first yeah I thought yeah I guess I didn't realize that either because when I think of you know Star Trek I think of

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it basically I mean I know there's Next Generation all that stuff but I think it being a constant since the 60s yeah it was three three and

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really the first season I think has the best writing something like and and Star Trek fans will say this but

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by the third season and I and I have to check the whether that is but there are episodes like some of the episodes get a

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little ridiculous and and silly like there's one where it's called Spock's brain where I think Spock's brain is

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like out of his body and he has to I talk it's just anyway some of the writing is not up to par with say like

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the first season or whatever um but you know it was a hit with a with an age group that they weren't aware of and and

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but it was canceled and so because almost immediately I don't know when the first convention was but it was very

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shortly thereafter and fans were yeah I wonder if that 11 million budget you mentioned for for this one for Star Trek

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Two like I wonder if that you said it seemed low to you right so maybe I wonder if it was low because the first one sucks yeah yeah they're like yeah

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we'll give her a second chance we're not putting a lot of money into this thing yeah because like I said eight to one ratio 80 million versus 11. I have a

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quick question yeah okay so tell me again what years were the TV series on

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it was like 64 to 67 was three and so from 67 until when was the first movie

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The First movie I think it was 77 76 77 something like that about 10 years later

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yeah and and it's amazing it's the same cast yes but yes it is yes uh but Star

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Trek one is so well I have I don't remember seeing that one but but I'm just saying even in this

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one is the same thing for them to have that you know it's a big gift well conventions I think conventions had a

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lot because certainly in the Years following conventions and fan ship really you know people were like all

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these people are going to this convention they'll probably go see a movie you know yeah it's all about the money yeah well yeah yeah uh now to

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Chris's Point giving the movie another chance I think that was back then now I

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think with the attention span of people being 12 seconds if something doesn't immediately ignite they bail on it sure

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and that's sad because I think things like Firefly were the victim of that I think you could rattle off any of your

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favorite Netflix is notorious for this the the uh that zombie show with the elephant they say they've never canceled

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a a uh uh a a show that's a hit sir yeah that's that's what they say they don't

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show the numbers to anybody sure they just have to look at themselves or they don't have yeah they don't even show it

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to the The Producers no I'm with you normally they do is dumping stuff like they have

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completed projects like completed Seasons you know season three of shows or movies and they're dumping them

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without even like showing them like all right if you want to cancel the show that's cool but at least leave it on there right so people can you know watch

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you will make money back but they're just they're pulling it off this stuff and they're like nobody ever you know it's getting thrown in a in a garbage

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can that's crazy to me yeah it could be Senior Management of those places being

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like I don't want that stinking up my tenure his head I think Firefly Fox the

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exactly Fox were yeah it's it's stuff like that so that's mean it really is

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but again it's all about money it's all about yeah all that sure uh there's a

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couple notes before we get into the Beats okay so this is a little bit of nerdy Deep dive but you'll have

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recognized check off in this movie and Khan says you I know for I never

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forget a face and this is clearly a reference to the episode space seed of the original series when Kirk discovers

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him and his followers wakes him up and and first meetscon check off uh the guy

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playing Chuck off was not part of the cast at that time on the show he did not join until later

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uh so they had a different check off in the episode there was no so I recognized your face

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even though you were never in the episode excellent yes uh this I got from Memory Alpha which is like if you want

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to Deep dive into Star Trek nerdum Star Trek Memory Alpha is a place to go Chekhov would likely have

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been us now uh so this is what I call the Chuck off Kodama because he was not

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on technically on the ship when Khan was there so how do you explain this the the screenwriter says he had he had taken

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account for that and had had check off watched some some historical tapes prior

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to meeting Con in this movie and the studio said no no we don't want that change it to check off having metcon

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which created this plot hole well he wasn't on the show at the time anyway check off would likely have been assigned to the Enterprise after the

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events of mud's women as Chekhov did not know very much so that's a another show in the series original series

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although the character of checkoff has not yet joined the cast during the first season he must have been assigned in

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some capacity as an off-screen encounter with with Khan must have occurred during his assault in Spacey so you have to

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assume that okay we didn't see Chekhov but he must have been there because Khan says he was but he but he was not

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originally part of the cast uh film writer Jack B sowards acknowledged this apparent inconsistency

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was not part of his final draft but rather a change instituted by Nicholas Meyer soured script originally had check

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off reviewing a library tape on Khan before his first encounter with him the sequence was deleted and the dialogue in

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subsequent scenes was slightly reworked creating the alleged plot hole so yeah there is this plot hole that he

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recognized but there is no scene in space Seed where Chekhov you see Chekhov or this or that check off these con or

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even the even the deleted scene which obviously sounds like the the writers you know I guess aware of this but even

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having the deleted scene check off reviewing old footage that solves the problem of check off recognizing Khan but that doesn't solve the problem of

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Khan going hey I never forget a face that's true yes yes absolutely yeah I mean to your point yeah I mean you don't want to you want to enjoy the movie and

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not you know get too you know worried about it well Khan says he was there because he Reckoning his face enough

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said right but it is kind of weird Sulu is not on that show either okay but uh

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in researching sulo he was on previous episodes as like a botanist or something so he is on the ship in previous

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episodes and I'll so in fact the first one um where no man has gone before the

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second uh second pilot but he's not the Helmsman or or anything like that so at

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least we can establish that he was you know on board and that's interesting they also I mean but other people were right so like why didn't they just

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instead of making a check off change out the the person like right make it spark make it you know yes uh checkoff is on

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somebody you know what I mean he's now the Second Officer on another ship The Excelsior I think or whatever yeah no this story picks up with where is the

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original crew now yeah so they're all dispersed got different ranks are all been promoted

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sure um but so they want to check off as part of the EXO of the captain of The

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Excelsior to go anyway we'll get into that in the setup or whatever um okay so those are some of the

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uh I can mention this now I was going to mention it when we talk about Khan's first appearance but

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just for historical sake this this movie the timeline of this movie is 15 years after the episode of Spacey so the

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events of Spacey this is 15 years later uh from those uh episodes and from that

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episode and Khan again you're gonna you guys are gonna go to sleep you're gonna you're gonna have a three book prequel

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about Khan okay so Khan was this genetically engineered human and in the

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90s uh him and his kind Rose to power and took over the world and Khan was

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like one of five princes or something who who ran basically a fifth of the world uh because Khan will say in his

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first appearance I was a prince and I had power over millions and even mentioned the 90s so yeah the 90s uh so

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in: 1996

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a ship called the Botany Bay which is a deep space explorership they had to go into cryo to to travel but stole a ship

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in: 1996

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finds him 15 years later we're meeting him again in Wrath of God anyway okay are we ready for the uh the Beats I

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think we are any under preliminary like I said even that is not scratching the

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surface about what you can it's like Star Wars with Star Trek you can sure complete nerd and yeah I was gonna say

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if that deep dive wasn't very deep how well there's like literally three books

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that start because it starts before Khan is even born there's a there's a character called Gary seven who does

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make an appearance in some of the shows and his and his blonde uh partner uh I

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can't remember her name right now she was in Young Frankenstein Rose and hey what was her name Terry Terry gar plays

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his partner and uh seven is an alien who has come to Earth to make sure that humans don't f up the planet by making

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mistakes so he corrects history throughout anyway again see what I'm talking about so we're gonna delete this

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but Gary 7 and his partner Terry Garr that was going to be a spin-off show much like the X-Files it was Mulder and

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Scully but but after the shoot got canceled there was no interest in doing it right but in the book scary seven is

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trying to infiltrate the genetics lab that is engineering Colin I'm sorry guys

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Khan anyway well I was gonna say as far as

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the check off and all that stuff me being a casual viewer of Star Trek I had

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no idea he just said you're I never forget a face I'm like okay well we're good there

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you go yes uh so I appreciate there's more to the store foreign

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[Music]

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probably till like the second season maybe or whatever and and this is an issue like Kirk uh Shatner and take a do

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not get along I mean even as recently as a couple months ago they were sniping at each other over Twitter and [ __ ] man

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they do not like each other yeah right yes uh and Kirk has said things like uh because

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he considers the real cast him McCoy and Spock right yeah uh he says these other

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two you know sniping to K uh really just followed Along on our Tales they weren't

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part of the original you know so they go back and forth um does William Shatner know that he's

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not a captain of a Starship like is he aware that he is not Kirk he's been into space thank you that's what I was about

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to say sure you stole my words this means been to space all that space yeah well I would I would like to meet

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Captain Kirk I would not like to meet William Shatner I'm sure he's a swell fella all right uh did I do the thing for the

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Beats I didn't let's do the beats [Music]

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okay so uh doing getting into this the opening image I think the theme and the opening image really and the setup

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really established what I think are the the themes that move tease to this movie I think fairly well and I think there's

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a good closing image to this as well the opening image I have it opens up uh Kirk

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is now an admiral and he's relegated to training and inspections and paperwork and things Admirals do right and he does

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not and he is not happy about that but he will say things like we all have our appointed duties and this kind of thing

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so he's accepted it as it is but he's he's not happy about it uh there's a lot of time taken to I think set up how

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ill-suited he feels being an admiral uh Spock says to him early on that it is a

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waste of materials for you to be an admiral that you should have been at you should always be a captain that's not early on that's like 40 minutes into

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this thing is it yeah yeah I didn't time it but it's it's just five minutes or ten minutes in it's it's amazing when he

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has to assume command almost yeah that's during their their debate on should he take you know command or whatever uh

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bones will say sorry I didn't mean to interrupt but yeah no no okay well uh yeah I didn't write down the times

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except for like the midpoint I think maybe uh Spock will say uh bones will

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say he should never have taken that promotion yeah that's earlier when they're in his apartment yeah his Destiny was always the captain's chair

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and Kirk himself will literally say we all have our assigned duties bones yeah right uh and it's his birthday hey man

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Jim this is your birthday why are you acting like a dick yeah I don't want to be electric boss am I am I wrong in this

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I think I read the notes yesterday uh it was Captain Kirk's birthday yes and he

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was turning how old well Chandler is 41 in this movie he was born in 41 this is 82. right so if it's equivalent age he's

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in his early 40s I think I think I said I saw in the thing it was like 38 it was his 38th birthday oh okay all right

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Captain Kirk's 38th birthday and I'm like oh my God yeah he's already had a career now he's an admiral like

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[Music] the series right and so I guess that

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makes sense like we're just talking about there's a Tinder Gap right so they had to I guess between the series and when the shows the movie started picking

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back up so I guess they had to address for that but like I couldn't help but thinking wait a minute this is the second one yeah and he's already old or

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feels old they made four more of these [ __ ] things right and he's old now like well he's still like that's like

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Sandra still looks fairly Trim in this movie oh for sure like it you know it was more about the character and where

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they made him filled I guess as opposed to because he does a lot of sitting around going I'm old well it really uh

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that's why we it really pushes the point of he shouldn't be behind a desk he

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shouldn't be pushing papers like Captain Curry if he's not captaining he's right

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antiquette because he came across to me as like a 60 year old right and and he does he'll we'll get into it say later

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you know I feel old and worn out and I think that's I think that's the last few

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years of sitting behind a desk when he'd rather be out there and you know yeah you can feel that way uh because as

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Spock said it's a waste of material that he's being wasted like you know and so he's just at this point he feels like

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he's just counting out the years you know yeah was he an admiral in the in the motion picture one or was he still wasn't captain of the Star Trek there's

28:33

some uh other guy Captain the Star Trek Captain America captain of the Enterprise you're gonna get hate mail

28:39

for that yeah yeah I was the captain in the morning he wasn't captain of Enterprise at the

28:45

time and and basically seizes the Enterprise to the Shogun of the previous Captain it does that a lot huh

28:54

when they steal it yeah it does that here too you know yeah uh Spark's like no I'm good and I'm Vulcan like don't

28:59

have you know yeah because uh Spock is the acting captain of the Enterprise right now on this training Mission okay

29:06

so that's the opening image the theme and I and I think wait what's the opening image I'm sitting around going on I'm old the the the idea that he's

29:14

being wasted and he feels old okay yeah this is Kirk his resting state now I feel old you know opening opening shot

29:21

though when he comes in with all the blue light and smoking oh yeah yeah yeah yeah no because yeah they're testing the

29:26

Kobe yes uh again is that the first time that's uh that has been seen it's a

29:31

known thing or was it in the show before I want to say this probably referenced yeah I don't know that for a fact again

29:38

like I said I'm I'm like a middle of the road nerd about this stuff but I'm even worse I know the ones no and I don't

29:44

know if it's I don't know outside of that a whole lot yeah so I remember that from the ones with pine of course but

29:50

right it is known that Kirk cheated yep to win and he did something that was

29:55

never done before right that's what he said he did yeah no win scenarios yes there is played

30:04

well here it plays well in the I constantly compared it to the ones with fine which is really unfair but I did I

30:09

think Pine does a really good job and I like the Spock Into Darkness a lot so I was constantly comparing these yeah I

30:15

need to go back and watch that because that is also Khan and I'm not sure the cons are different but I mean I compared those a lot but you have the obviously

30:22

the Kobayashi removal I've forgotten that this is this one started that way with that uh and I don't know if this is

30:28

the first time you find out that Kirk cheated I don't think we knew that Kirk cheated prior to this movie so this may be where

30:34

that Legend came from I don't know I'd have to look uh but it is a no one's like you're you cannot win the Kobayashi

30:40

uh and a morale thing to test how you would

30:46

act in the face of death yeah which is it goes back to the theme of this movie I think aging and how we deal with

30:53

deaths because because he will say to savik the Christianity introducing Christianity which I was uh reminded of

30:59

I'd forget I forgot she was in that until I watched the trailer and I was like oh yeah yeah uh her first movie and and uh he will say I think what I think

31:07

is part of the theme uh how we Face death is equally as important as how we Face life or whatever because that's the

31:13

point of this kobayashimuru test how you if you don't rescue the the people they

31:18

die if you do rescue him you die so you know it's a no-in situation which Kirk does not believe in uh so I think this

31:25

touches on the theme um I think I said almost without a doubt it is uttered by Kirk when lecturing

31:30

savik how we deal with death it's least important how we do with life or yeah uh and so I say taking the promotion is a

31:37

is almost a form of death uh for Kirk because later he will say you know he's worn out you know the uh stasis equals

31:44

Death catboy will say well Kirk is static right now you know yeah to me I think this is a form of death for him uh

31:51

it is his birthday which is another Mark of Aging bones gives him a pair of glasses

31:56

it is established in this timeline that he could have had some kind of like the glasses are not an option needed in this

32:03

future but I think bones is being uh nostalgic

32:08

here with Kirk maybe even a little bit of a joke um but at the at the end

32:13

um he the glasses are broken right and he he does like you you know as you age or whatever his vision is failing yes

32:20

yeah okay um he's thinking he could have a

32:26

in Next Generation can't see it all but he's got these advisor yeah yeah uh Kirk

32:32

will say uh in this opening scene Galloping around the Galaxies for the young so there's this constant hammering

32:39

um and then bone says get back in the cabinet chair before you really do get old you know be one of these relics or

32:44

whatever um like I said Shatner was 42 at the time but James is saying he saw 38 for

32:50

the age of Kirk either way uh it's the circumstances that are wearing him down and making him feel like uh he's older

32:58

perhaps than uh now I did find it interesting in the setup now okay so we

33:03

all know the ending of this movie Spock dies what yeah what and this is like it

33:09

still gets me like if you're a fan of Star Trek at all and Spock is so below I I have like to me uh Spock is my

33:16

favorite character and always favorite okay uh I still I still like oh those bugs

33:22

um but in a bit of foreshadowing and I didn't really catch this maybe when I'd seen it the first couple times or

33:28

whatever you know a long time ago but but Kirk will walk out because in the company they all simulate what would

33:33

happen and things blow up and so the bridge crew dies and so Spock feigns death or whatever right and Kurt comes

33:39

out and says Oh I thought you died and like you know there it is right because by the end of the movie they're gonna be

33:45

together and he really is he says aren't you dead uh and it's a bit of foreshouting and it's I thought I didn't

33:51

catch that right right off uh I gave I gave the backstory about the 90s already uh all this is sort of sort of

33:58

established in the the setup uh Kirk is an adbro going on doing an inspection of

34:03

a refitted Enterprise which is going on a training mission for Cadets uh they uh

34:09

checkoff is on another ship and so there's this science experiment the Genesis which can create planets out of

34:15

nothing life and everything and that's what they're testing check off on his ship I really like to Bones rant when he

34:21

finds out about it you know oh yeah you know the greatest life and you know the myth according to myth Grady's life in

34:26

six days we can do it in six minutes yeah yeah no I think uh uh um Urban

34:31

really nailed it Nails yeah and I never would have been so Urban to play is

34:37

sickness and death or something anyway yeah um I was telling Sherry so

34:42

bones is always because you know you green eyed Balkan green blood these two are always going back and forth but

34:48

they're beloved friends uh on the show anyway I was telling Sherry I said in terms of archetypal characters you know

34:54

you got Kirk but but uh bones is Kirk's heart and Spock is is Kirk's brain

35:00

that's why you have these two and they're so diametrically opposed it's almost like the X-Files where uh but you

35:07

know Scully and Mulder you know the Scully is the the brains and Mulder is more the intuitive heart of so you have

35:12

these characters and it's archetypes right they're playing playing certain roles whatever can I ask a question

35:19

about the Genesis yeah I think I asked you this in the movie and then totally

35:25

forgotten I may sound like really dumb here what was

35:31

um con moaning with that was he going to take it to Earth and kill everything and I mean what why was he uh he was either

35:39

to make a new planet for himself or use it as a weapon because he gets totally consumed with because he used it say you

35:47

took it to Earth and used it it would kill everything wiped out all life and restart it and then yeah okay so it

35:53

kills everything that's there and restarts it because that's where they were looking for a completely desolate planet with nothing on it no not even a

36:00

microbe he took it and made a planet out of absolutely nothing right yeah he that

36:07

was not as his attention was [ __ ] I correct with it I understand that but I mean it there was nothing out there made

36:14

a plan I had a problem with that as well like they established I feel like that you needed a desolate planet to create

36:19

it you just gotta like it's got to take this it was the nebula so I mean there was there was matter there okay yeah I

36:25

felt like they needed a planet I'm gonna share it felt like you needed and maybe we just missed it but I feel like you needed to plan it and then yeah I was like wait a minute we got this [ __ ]

36:31

planet coming out of nothing there was nothing there wait what yeah I think that was just by accident honestly yeah

36:38

I don't know it was not Constitution to make a plan he was he was using no but it's rules of the world like they established you got to have a moon like

36:45

even in the little video they showed us and you take this Moon it doesn't say or empty [ __ ] space and you can create

36:51

something it was right maybe they failed it I'm sure research then maybe her research she should have just yeah see

36:59

this is yep that's it she's a shitty sign and I'm sure there's a podcast where four nerds are sitting around

37:04

debating this right no it's a nebula not these foreigners dude we're trying to get through mud

37:10

here and this is uh like I said I mean I don't mean to drag on it I know the

37:16

thing but I had an issue with it I was like well honest I mean again back to my ignorance of it I just didn't know

37:22

better maybe I wasn't paying attention yeah you're always enjoying the movie I was right right yeah because it will

37:28

play a big factor in Star Trek 3. have you all seen Star Trek three yeah search for spot yeah you haven't seen it Chris

37:33

no oh man okay well okay because there's there's a setup for it in this movie we'll show you how right at the end yeah

37:39

knowing I am I thought this you said it was the Sun and I thought oh is that

37:44

spots on the planet I know but I thought why did they keep showing that thing glowing I think it's the show that it's

37:51

the sun yeah yes yeah there might have been a star there already because the nebula was there and now the nebula is gone so we don't know what else was in

37:58

the nebula that's the thing though because the nebula and we'll get to it at the end but it's almost well we'll get to it again but the nebula is an

38:04

area uh almost like a fog for a ship at Sea right I mean oh that's what they were okay that's what I got that because

38:11

when they were hiding from each other and trying to shoot each other and they couldn't see and all that stuff yeah it wasn't just empty airspace there

38:17

was a nebula there and then who knows it could have been covering up a dead Moon Chris so yeah you can't see [ __ ] so it

38:24

was in there yeah it's amazing they didn't run into it all they're chasing around in there you know yes we'll get right on top of no that's that's a moon

38:30

sir Moon there you go okay uh

38:35

see there you go with the lines that's all right I'm sorry as your worst yeah

38:40

that was uh okay that's a good question Sherry I had the same same problem

38:45

wait a minute what yeah so I've already talked about the history of the 90s blah blah blah all right it wasn't logical to

38:51

me you know what I mean okay all right I'm done yeah uh are you out of your Vulcan mind right didn't

38:58

Skywalker kiss his sister I don't know all right this is another podcast here

39:05

okay um didn't was happy about it too sure you got a hot sister you go with it

39:10

right I mean uh anyway uh now Khan will talk about his wife because I already went through a lot of

39:17

the setup as far as the history but Khan will talk about his wife well there there's some debate about who that is but at the end of space seed he leaves

39:23

with a member of the of the crew who is a woman who has fallen in love with him and he her and they she goes down to the

39:29

to City Alpha six City Alpha five with him uh and that

39:34

presumably is the wife why they don't mention her by name I don't know because it was clearly established in the show yeah right or sure like like I mean it

39:42

tracked pretty well like I mean you got it he's pissed at Kirk yeah um but like I don't know it might have I just not

39:48

thought about this but like have a scene of him you know holding her [ __ ] picture or locked yet or or something right uh that just a

39:55

reminder of kind of what's driving him because it does seem like you we were talking about like he definitely becomes completely consumed by Kirk and and

40:01

revenge and I'm cool with that but yeah I guess somebody had asked sure he did what were they going to do with Genesis because his lieutenant or whatever the

40:07

blonde guy yes he tells them you know basically at one point he tries to cry him off of curtains I mean Let It Go we

40:13

got the Genesis because I thought I don't think they were clear about what he wanted it but I thought they established he's living in this [ __ ]

40:19

yeah he's got a ship and he can create or any [ __ ] planet he wants right go out of you know space or nebulas or

40:26

anything so yes anyhow he can create I thought yeah if I can go and live your life on this paradise or whatever but well yeah to me I get it revenge is

40:33

that's fine like I didn't broke with him losing his mind on Kirk and giving up that like that's cool but sure no and

40:38

and to my mind this is really like like thank God Hitler did not listen to his generals if Hitler had listened to his

40:45

generals it might be a different world today don't go into Russia don't do that you know this is not sound battle

40:51

strategy like generals who knew strategy and tactics said this is not the way you should go and Hitler was like I'm Hitler

40:57

so and and thank God he did because he basically sowed the seeds of his own destruction right uh this is the problem

41:04

with dictators and thank God they're stupid they are absolutely maniacal to the point of being you know tunnel

41:11

vision and that's what Khan I think sure God had everything uh well it was very uh the similar as the Moby Dick and all

41:18

that stuff that he's been marooned on this planet he's been reading all this literature yeah there is that is a good

41:24

point yeah he's going after that well for sure at

41:29

the end you know with my last breath yeah all right that's nice yeah the Moby

41:34

Dick thing is because I saw that Moby Dick thing there and it never even occurred to me that's that whole shelf of books is like revenge stories

41:41

probably is uh and and he isn't running around I saw Moby Dick and some others but I don't remember what they were now

41:47

yeah but he is like Khan is super he's way smarter than Kirk and we'll talk about this

41:52

Kirk is cunning and and resourceful anyway we'll get into that uh Kirk is

41:58

thrilled to be back on the bridge even if it is just as a visiting Admiral um because now they're going on the

42:03

Enterprise to do an inspection before they go up two week or three week training and he checks out the engine room or whatever and then he's quick

42:09

like ah [ __ ] this I'm going on the bridge no he only wants to be one but the rest of the inspection sir later yeah it's supposed to be a three weeks

42:15

training Mission just you know routine uh they get the call Big so so check off

42:21

and Terrell down on the planet get infected with this big things

42:28

so they become the tools of Khan who goes to Regular one where the science is

42:33

and captures genus device and and so they're big helmet things though right to protect them from the the atmosphere

42:39

the elements or whatever it reminded me of Spaceballs a lot though because they're very yeah very big later but I

42:45

don't know it's when they use them in the original series it's like a a cloth sack over their head it's absolutely low

42:51

that's funny but anyway uh yeah I like that did you go over the story just real

42:58

quick back up half a second um we didn't go over what Khan told

43:03

check off as far as we we've put you on City Alpha six this was city office six

43:08

this blew up now the planet's uninhabitable yes uh check off they think they're on the different planet

43:13

they think they're on steady Alpha five five yeah uh

43:24

five I believe and and six blew up decimating five yeah and so they think

43:29

Jacob thought they were on six yes yeah uh they didn't you didn't expect to see me you know

43:34

um infects them and and learns of Kirk and uses them as tools to get the Genesis device off the Science Station

43:41

uh and check off under the influence of Khan is telling the Science Station the

43:47

new Captain Kirk has ordered Admiral Curtis Admiral Kirk has ordered complete turnover of all Genesis materials this

43:53

sends femininity they call Kirk Kirk doesn't understand bad Communications but has been ordered by Starfleet to

43:58

reroute to find out what's going on with this top secret thing and regulations state that the senior officer then takes

44:04

control he takes control of the Enterprise which is what he you know what he's wanted what he's wanted uh I

44:10

say they were they they go to warp five and I'm calling that the the break into two uh that's what I was gonna say too

44:17

that like that emergency distress call or whatever boom often to act two warp 5

44:24

and Doc two uh we do get this there's like a lot of there's like double bumps and stuff right because the because the point because the amount of time that

44:29

passes between wind check off gets captured by Khan and some earwig stuff and then Khan or excuse me Kirk taking

44:36

command and going to Ward five like there's a lot of time in between yes this it's not I guess the beats are

44:43

there but the structure is not very tight no it is not it is not uh and and some are very quick I was I always

44:48

looked at these older movies kind of like Rocky or whichever that don't usually have the structure we're looking

44:54

for sure I basically look at it as everybody was introduced we all kind of know what's going on what needs to

45:00

happen and then boom break into two yeah because that's usually how I look at it sure this is almost like a set of

45:05

reboots so they they need to establish where all these beloved characters are now yeah and I was cool there that was

45:11

the whole part of setup it just seemed like it it just you know it really slow to me it did it there was a big bulk of

45:16

material before we really and I don't know how they filmed it but I I thought

45:21

about this when I'm watching there is not a single scene where Khan and Kirk are in the same room hmm Minister okay

45:28

because Khan is always on the Excelsior I think it is I think it's resilient right yeah maybe it was yeah uh and but

45:35

so they they talk to each other to the screen and stuff yeah um which I hadn't thought about that

45:40

you're right that's interesting yeah uh anyway Kirk must take command over but Spock is the acting captain and so Kirk

45:49

is a little sensitive about ruffling Spock's feathers Spock is like you make mistake Admiral Eco does not bother me

45:55

and so we get the setup here in the scene of the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one which

46:01

obviously will come into play later they work five warp 5 and act two uh the

46:07

audience is given uh so now you have this little bit of to make sure you know what the Genesis device is Spock and

46:14

Bones don't know about it so let's watch this video right um which is a vehicle to show the

46:19

audience what is at stake here because it is top secret I guess nobody goes well done yeah I know I I didn't hang up

46:24

about this because it's new as an admiral he would have private knowledge that I didn't like the uh when it was

46:31

retinal skin and then it went to like this photograph of him instead of it like scanning like his face it was weird

46:36

like it wasn't a shot a close-up of his face sitting there yeah in his eyeball yeah he went to like this [ __ ] still

46:42

photo yeah it's like a mug shot it was it was not good I was like oh what is that I do not like their uniforms in

46:47

this those [ __ ] pants man pants yeah these big baggy and they always

46:53

have the the pants where they're tucked in the boot then they flare out right before they go into the booth is this the older Star Treks always have that in

46:59

the original series they were like that really the Next Generation room they they are longer and they're yeah more

47:05

sleek and yes I like their uniforms infinitely better almost like every uniform better than them yeah you guys

47:12

are paying too much attention yeah that's what I'm saying I mean I mean thankfully the top part I guess with all the yeah it's awesome that you know I'm

47:20

sure costume designers around are punch in the air like yes they noticed the [ __ ] Bridge yeah yeah anyway yeah

47:30

honestly I was just in the movie enjoying it no I I did too but I didn't pull me out everything I just yeah every

47:35

time they had like water shots and I saw those [ __ ] pants I was like yeah no I nope I'm not I I've had that out before

47:42

though yeah I'm with you like not a fan next generation was was cooler and then the ones with pine those those are fine

47:47

too yes yeah absolutely even the original series they still had the pants and the boots and all that but yeah I

47:53

just didn't like the way they look yeah I didn't either yeah uh and there's the hairdos this is 80s too but you know early 80s with the hairdos in this movie

47:59

too oh that perm I uh yeah that's what I said oh he's got the perm in this one yeah um I did like the Jack or his his

48:08

top it reminded me of our marching band uniforms that's how you know I wouldn't use it

48:14

that's frustrated he pulls it open oh it's frustrated they expose the white so

48:19

that the bloody handprint can be on that floor later because it's red everywhere else right if he doesn't open it then it's red on red you can't see it maybe

48:25

he's exposing his heart well I was asking does that mean he's on on duty or off duty because I was like even like he

48:31

has it off and then later we're just skipping I'm gonna skipping ahead but later he he has it off he's reading the

48:37

book order at the end when David comes down and he puts it back on to talk to him I'm like you're in your [ __ ] quarters I'm not putting that [ __ ] he

48:43

said he's going back to the like I gotta go back he wants to avoid the conversation sure yeah but I don't know

48:48

yeah anyway that's nerdom I don't I did not like these anyway uh project Genesis

48:54

now this okay I'll say this in one sentence we'll move on Project Genesis is being touted because of

48:59

overpopulation and poverty that's fine uh and I had to look this up

49:05

but obviously there are replicators in Star Trek replicator is like a microwave you tell it what you want and it

49:11

replicate anything you want uh out of out of existing matter your food and everything in next

49:17

generation and onward they Tout The replicator as the cure for poverty and

49:22

money nobody uses money in Star Trek and there's no poverty because everybody can get a replicator and replicate their

49:28

food replicate it's almost like a 3D printer at that point right uh I looked

49:33

it up and replicators were in existence in the Star Trek universe at the time but not adopted by Starfleet until the

49:40

next Generation so they get a pass on this poverty again so this is that's what I'm doing secured poverty now it's

49:47

time to go to Starfleet yeah yeah uh anyway so poverty and stuff was soft

49:54

which that's funny because it's like typically the government has the toys first before they hit you know yeah

49:59

public right yeah well yeah if you can figure out a way to feed hundreds and

50:04

hundreds of people in deep space with a replicator that might be the first thing you put on ship and the next generation

50:10

is it's very much touted right uh uh and I mean we had another crew who [ __ ]

50:16

starved to death because we didn't have a damn replicator on board this is [ __ ] is broken we can't make another replicator right uh we should have made

50:23

a replicator before it broke yes so uh [Music]

50:29

Seventh Generation replicator right and and Genesis is never mentioned again as

50:35

far as I know as a as a usable thing in any other Star Trek movie or show like you you would have thought okay well we

50:41

just make planets everywhere right anyway that's everything too that I thought about like with the poverty and stuff and they talked overpopulation

50:48

right yes which I can't imagine because strange new worlds right like yeah

50:54

literally unlimited millions of [ __ ] planes out there that haven't been that aren't in you know I mean yes it doesn't

50:59

mean they're not inhabited I guess but like what you know what I mean like I don't know I thought that was weird to me and then well if you take it a step

51:05

further earth is made this you know desolate Moon desolate Planet into a

51:11

thriving place for people for human civilization let's get some people off Earth well who do you get off of Earth

51:18

yeah like like who do you pick is it volunteer basis or is it nope this group in Asia gets to go yeah we don't do Asia

51:25

right that's a little I don't know I don't think that too deep into the Star Trek politics part of it well like in in

51:32

Firefly terraforming is a thing and they terraform planets because uh of urban population on Earth I think maybe but

51:38

then it becomes part of the uh the government the uh not the Empire I don't know what they call it I can't remember

51:43

but the brown shirts are Mal and his butt I want to say the foundation but that's not right yeah that's about it anyway so they do they do terraform or

51:51

Genesis planets in in Firefly I mean it's a cool idea yeah the the note is uh

51:57

uh replicators technically existed and were used around 100 years prior to the original series but it was not acquired

52:03

by the Federation but much later anyway nerdum okay fun and games now the the fighting games I find is very very short

52:10

in in terms of like maybe one battle is how I pegged it there's one phone in one game you know there's one fun in one

52:17

game as far as I can tell Khan draws first blood but Kirk still at this point does

52:22

not know it's gone who is it who's he you know he says things who is this who is who's firing on us uh through Kirk's

52:28

cunning and his ability to cheat death something he will try himself for at the end he disables Khan ship uh and

52:35

inflicts damage of his own forcing Khan to flee to the midpoint false Victory so there is this battle between Khan and

52:41

Kirk that is a fun and game right because Khan's on the ship that Chekhov came the Brazilian yeah zillion yes so

52:48

they don't know they just think it's the resilience because they're ignoring the Combs and yeah they're not doing anything on screen yeah

52:55

yeah uh now had they listened to savik and he says that you go right on keeping quoting regulations you know

53:03

um all right and the earwig stuff is fun and games but it's just early yeah I think it I think that type of thing fun

53:09

of the fun and games yeah I mean it feels like putting games right but it's just early on I don't think it's I think that they just it was pretty gross

53:19

right the close-ups were a little dated like I think uh you know well it's just

53:25

the thought of something going here sure uh I think they I think they were really burdened by the setup of this movie

53:31

because of what they had to get started and off the ground first thing fans are going to know is well where are they now

53:38

well where you know anyway uh I have a so I have that as that fun and game uh

53:44

and the midpoint is calling a false Fitness Kirk is forced Khan to flee yeah

53:49

that hasn't been born as well because they they had wait I think I'm misremembering did he

53:55

he damaged the Enterprise yes yeah the Enterprise they stalled just to get into

54:00

his system and lower down the shields has that happened yet oh that makes that's later that no that's I think

54:06

that's how he gets Khan to to kind of flee yes yeah yes because the Enterprise

54:11

only Scotty will say I can give you a couple of shots that's all the power we have for and we have no engines to to

54:18

flee or maneuver because they damage the warp core yes yeah uh and so there is

54:24

this safety precaution where each ship has a unique ID number and to prevent

54:30

enemies from taking over ships you can enter another ship can enter that ID number into the computer and can then

54:36

shut down the systems of the yeah that's what they did yeah so that but Khan does not know that and and later uh Spock

54:43

will say he's highly intelligent but an experience inexperienced and subject to two-dimensional thinking and so that's

54:50

when Kirk gets his ideas uh so I'm calling that a false Victory um which

54:57

leads us to the bad guys close in uh and again fairly quick I think the crew of regular one the Science Station They're

55:03

All Dead they've been killed by Khan uh there's this you know it's almost a bumper sticker face was unstone you know

55:08

or whatever Kirk will say that as they go in um Captain Terrell who is still and check off who are still under the

55:14

influence are being monitored by unbeknownst to us at this time are being monitored by Khan listening in and Khan

55:21

is trying to get information Kirk will use that uh uh but is Terrell the

55:27

captain is under the influence and is ordered to kill Kirk uh and kills himself rather than Institute that order

55:33

and then and Chekhov is going mad because of the earwig thing hmm yeah it

55:38

it incapacitates check off yes it it makes you highly suggestible and then as

55:43

it grows drives you mad and eventually you it results In Your Den right yeah so

55:49

I felt like they didn't deliver on that like they that's what they set up but I don't know it does come out of checkouts

55:55

here and other than we can't kill Chekhov so right and so yeah I think I would have liked to have seen some kind

56:01

of take him to sick babe yeah exactly because like they even tell them like check out they put creatures

56:08

in our ears and Bone just puts his hand on something oh it's all right

56:15

it's just gonna be okay yeah yeah I was totally waiting for good God man you've got an ear wig in here it could have

56:22

been like five seconds to get this out or something and that could have been a scene where bones really yeah I I don't know why they didn't sure um Kirk and

56:29

his followers beamed down to where survivors uh some survivors of regular one have retreated inside this Barren

56:35

Moon where the second phase of project Genesis has been completed uh it is revealed that Khan has been listening to

56:40

Kirk and Company through Captain Terrell's Communicator uh now as almost a setup from when savic was quoting

56:47

regulations if you haven't established Communications you you you should raise your Shields even if it's friendly uh

56:54

Kirk is now taking that to heart I think because he is using he doesn't know that Khan is listening but he must assume

56:59

that he that he is and so he follows regulations and begins to talk in coded speech two hours two days two days to

57:05

two hours uh in terms of how long if we go buy the book Captain it'll be two

57:10

days two days Captain before we can get repairs Kirk understands that is two hours that's what it means nobody else

57:16

does um smooth yes uh yeah so uh is delay

57:22

reveal that Kirk has been using coded speech two days is two hours uh now if I if I we if we had a false victory that

57:28

all this lost has to be a false defeat yes Khan is able to steal Genesis device and leave Kirk marooned like he feels

57:34

Kirk left him and you have what has become a meme I've seen this meme come on you know

57:40

but he's not maybe I missed something right but because he's in the whole

57:45

uh coded you know speech talking stuff he's not really a maroon marooned right

57:51

like because like I guess I missed something like you're giving me confused looks well he's the smart comes back and

57:57

saves him and like it wasn't days it was a couple hours right so Kirk is assured that it will be a couple hours yeah that

58:04

he's got to hang out there so he's not really being or am I confusing the the stuff um no no no Han thinks he's gonna be

58:10

there for two days yes but Kirk is the only one at this point who knows it won't be because he's playing yeah so

58:16

his old Khan is 100 over dramatic he stole Genesis and hasn't come down there

58:22

to fight Kirk so that Kirk can defeat him like Khan is getting away at this point okay so he's just mad he's getting away and got Genesis yeah he's not

58:28

really because the way it plays is like I'm Gonna Leave You Maroon like you did me come on I'm gonna hurt you I'm Gonna

58:33

Keep On hurting you and yeah I think I think Kirk because once they revealed I was like oh so that totally to me he

58:40

stole the weight of the you know of his I'm like so he was just over being over dramatic there he was coming to get him

58:46

like that was a God I'm coming to kill you okay didn't that happen right after the other guy shot himself maybe he was

58:53

just I mean calling his inflicted damage and is getting away yeah he's just like uh at this point now he does make a

59:00

speech or whatever but I mean you can tell he's mad and upset uh Kirk or whatever um yeah and yet I don't know yeah no I I

59:07

I think if he was truly marooned like Khan was there was a little more power to that yes yeah and also two days is

59:14

nothing right I mean I guess yeah but but con could because because Kirk will

59:20

use Khan's anger and wrath against him you keep missing the target like a poor Marksman I'm down here Khan you're gonna

59:25

have to come and get me Khan you know so he he knows that he can goadcon but here Khan is I don't have to kill you I I can

59:32

hurt you I'm going to hurting you and I think at this point Kirk is certainly

59:38

subject to his own bit of Rage yeah um yeah uh that's weird too like Han so

59:43

help meant on killing Kirk he you know once this guy with the earwig to do it and then and he's cool

59:51

with that you know like if that if Terrell doesn't kill himself he kills Kirk and then Khan flies off and enjoys

59:57

you know his troubles there was never a scene when they're together like I don't um yeah because like if it ever came

:: 00:03

down to a like a fist fight kind of a win con would although there is a fist fight in Spacey and Kirk is able to

:: 00:10

defeat Khan not necessarily through physical strength but through sneaky cunning tactics and this kind of thing

:: 00:16

anyway well he likes to cheat so yes he does not believe in any kind of knowing now now Kirk is morose here this so this

:: 00:22

is what I'm calling the Dark Knight of the Soul he learns of his son and he says what my life could have been you

:: 00:27

didn't tell me I had a son what my life could have been uh a man he hasn't he's listing all the things that are

:: 00:33

bothering him at this point uh he learns of the sun is life that could have been a man he hasn't seen in 15 years is

:: 00:38

trying to kill him and he has a son now that seems happy to help him asked how he feels he says I'm this is when he

:: 00:44

says I feel tired and worn out um the dick I I'm having to dig deep down comes when he is shown how Genesis

:: 00:51

Works they go into the cave uh and he's amazed Now While others are in the dark Kirk is now a bit more happy because he

:: 00:57

knows that in two hours they're going to be on their way and they talk about the Kobe Ashi Maru test and we get the the

:: 01:03

cheating and Kirk's philosophy two hours later Enterprise has enough power to beam them up and be on their way and so

:: 01:09

this is where I'm calling the break into three yep yeah yeah okay Sherry you want to say

:: 01:16

yeah too Chris was shaking his head and

:: 01:21

they're breaking it that's where I yeah um and like I said I think the Beats here are not as solid as we would have

:: 01:27

we would normally like but but it's not I don't think it's it's subject to catboy's beats yeah pretty dating and

:: 01:34

this kind of thing but I I think they're there but I think they're because this very quickly turned the whole last part is because they get picked up and then

:: 01:40

immediately starts like we have the nebula yes face through the fog stuff right that's all act three for sure

:: 01:45

absolutely okay um the castle is gone so this breaking the

:: 01:51

three they beam up um again the Enterprise is outgunned and can easily be outmaneuvered but Khan

:: 01:56

doesn't know what Kirk knows and Kirk uses subterfuge and cunning uh to defeat

:: 02:03

Khan and this is where Spock will say you know he's subject to two-dimensional thinking and Kirk will use his rage

:: 02:09

so you can again it's the point Khan is highly intelligent but allows his own

:: 02:15

passions to overrule his intelligence right and Kirk is able to use this so right like on the two two-dimensional

:: 02:21

thinking thing like a Spock's idea right like like Spock was like he said that to

:: 02:26

Kirk Noah all right Kirk will figure it out but like that's what Kirk did with spot meant right

:: 02:32

bonuses so yeah and the Kirk gets the idea of because they they make this maneuver I think right they go up or

:: 02:38

down I think if Z minus down so yeah there is this like that's what Spock was getting at without just going hey why

:: 02:43

don't you [ __ ] go bro for a good first officer you know yeah I don't know what I'm just saying like but there is

:: 02:50

this okay defeats con because of his friends right we're consulate oh yes

:: 02:55

it's always I mean that's always the way uh spocky mccoyer's brains in his heart absolutely

:: 03:02

so there is I don't know nerdum but so it's like when when they'll give an order like you know uh 180 mark seven

:: 03:09

okay 180 so 180 is due south but Mark seven so you're going south but you're

:: 03:15

going so you're not just going straight down in space you're you know you're sort of moving you know in a diagonal

:: 03:20

downward so all that is directional in space you know 180 mark seven or you know uh it really helped just just for

:: 03:27

clarification it really helped for me to think of this as a submarine movie oh for sure that's exactly the way they were moving

:: 03:34

around and stuff yeah even when they turn at times seem real slow like a [ __ ] you know like a submarine or a

:: 03:40

big boat and I'm like and that bothered me a little bit I'm like you're in [ __ ] space just zip around turn around why are you moving so slow but whatever pretty much what they were the

:: 03:47

Enterprise moving slow because they didn't have the engines to go fast they could not you're right okay you're right you're right yeah they move fast when

:: 03:52

they can't yeah you're right yes um but yeah it definitely in the fog stuff seeing like yeah what is this this

:: 03:59

this blah blah blah Z minus basically just send right okay you know Khan is

:: 04:04

driving around looking to you know like a he's driving left and right left and right you know yeah

:: 04:10

um yeah he has Intelligence but likes experience uh now James made an excellent point

:: 04:17

because the last third the third Act is a run silent Run Deep submarine movie yeah 100 and to the point of everybody

:: 04:25

being quiet and the ships in Silence of space stalking each other I thought it was very effective uh absolutely way to

:: 04:32

do things uh Kirk does save Khan just to harken back to what we were saying he

:: 04:38

says I'll say this for him at least he's consistent making the same linear thoughts over and over again out of you

:: 04:44

know right anyway uh yeah uh I I I've written that at this point this battle has turned into a very suspenseful run

:: 04:50

Silent One deep submarine warfare scenario exactly what James is saying yay uh experience in cunning experience

:: 04:57

in cunning Trump's sheer intelligence and rage and an Enterprise disables con ship they prepare the board they're

:: 05:03

going to capture Khan but Khan with his last breath spits at the and triggers the Genesis device Enterprise does not

:: 05:09

have the engines to go to warp so it's good if the jig is up and Kirk is facing death

:: 05:14

uh he doesn't like no win scenarios and so at this point Spock does him a solid

:: 05:20

right Spock leaves the bridge and goes down to the radiation filled chamber and fixes he does mini a solid not just Kirk

:: 05:26

you're right yeah absolutely uh this is the high tower surprise and the execution of new plan what I'm calling

:: 05:33

uh a tear jerker for Star Trek fans everywhere Spock unbeknownst to Kirk leaves the bridge and fixes the engines

:: 05:38

allowing the Enterprise to escape Khan's Kyle makazi maneuver Khan's Kamikaze

:: 05:44

that's hard to say Kirk congratulate Scotty because at this point well done Scotty you know you because it's always

:: 05:49

uh more power you know right anyway Scotty's squeezed out a couple extra yes whatever uh and then the very somber

:: 05:57

McCoy Jim I think you need to come down here and at this point I'm reaching for the kleenex always prior to this prior

:: 06:02

to entering the radiation Shield filled chamber uh now this is the setup for the

:: 06:07

third movie Spock melds with McCoy for the you know and he says remember and then goes into the chamber after he you

:: 06:14

know absent that will be essentially the setup and I I'd have to look and maybe

:: 06:19

you guys know if they had planned the Star Trek 3 prior to uh the ending of

:: 06:25

this movie or knew they were going to make a three because if they had never made a three then Spock is dead and nobody's happy about that well I think

:: 06:30

uh from the notes that I read Leonard Nimoy wasn't didn't want to be a part of this movie until he found out that his

:: 06:37

character would die at the end yeah I don't know about the three or whatever because of the success of the second one

:: 06:43

yeah because he directed four I think I think he came back because he could direct yeah and write or whatever it was

:: 06:49

but yeah I don't know yeah at that point at some points Leonard Nimoy had some issues with his character as Spock

:: 06:55

because he was an actor and he wrote a book because I am not Spock and then he wrote like a book or something way later

:: 07:01

saying I am Spock coming to terms with his legacy as being Spock and this kind of thing um so yeah prior to entering the

:: 07:08

radiation field chamber Spock beltsman McCoy saying remember uh then this this Bittersweet moment the needs of the many

:: 07:15

outweigh the needs a few are the one I've always been and will always I've been and always will be your friend what

:: 07:21

did you think of my solution you know the no win scenario live long and prosper Spock out uh Spock is buried at

:: 07:28

Sea so to speak so this this the castle is gone and and uh Khan has disabled

:: 07:33

them uh and even in his death is going to be able to defeat Kirk uh so that's the essentially what I'm calling the

:: 07:39

high tower surprise and the new plan is because fixing the engine the engines taking a

:: 07:45

lethal dose of radiation while doing it yes uh Spock is buried at Sea so to

:: 07:51

speak uh on the newly created Genesis Planet uh and then in light of this new life from Death Kirk says he feels young

:: 07:57

booking and bookending or I think nicely bookending the opening image uh his Club is closing image fixing his opening

:: 08:03

image and setting up uh Star Trek 3 or whatever yeah because in Star Trek 3 they then

:: 08:10

spoilers yeah yeah it's um Kirk is still not in

:: 08:16

command of the Enterprise and Star Trek 3 as I understand it uh and he tells McCoy to remember Spock says

:: 08:23

remember you know he hasn't planted his his chakra or whatever his spirit in in McCoy okay and and it McCoy will then

:: 08:30

have to go to Vulcan so that spot can move on into the Vulcan afterlife or whatever there's supposed to be some

:: 08:36

ritual after that well McCoy doesn't remember and hasn't done it and it be

:: 08:42

and but begins to suffer the effects of having Spock's chakra or whatever in him and so they wind up uh bones will tell

:: 08:51

Kirk that you know Spock is not dead or whatever so the Spock I mean uh Kirk steals the Enterprise literally

:: 08:58

steals it from Starfleet well it's also his line though too or just something McCoy's line he's not dead as long as we

:: 09:03

remember that that is also yes absolutely that ties into what you're saying about that yeah saying it having

:: 09:09

not remembered yeah you know wait what Spock's goal was just to so he gets his his ritual send off on Vulcan yes he

:: 09:17

would want to he would want his yeah yes like so I can come back to life and I

:: 09:22

don't know that he anticipated that there would be a body for him to come back too okay but having landed on the

:: 09:28

Genesis Planet his because when the movie opens you see a baby an infant and it's Spock and he grows rapidly or

:: 09:35

whatever and they when they get to Vulcan mess with the Genesis of the planet did yeah and when and Spock is almost

:: 09:42

like he's walking around but he he he's almost like a sort of in a in a Fugue

:: 09:49

State until he gets his chakra back from McCoy in a ritual or whatever and that's what they steal the Enterprise because

:: 09:55

it's denied we got to go there's this stuff about Spock and Federation is no no no we're not going to do that and

:: 10:00

Kirk is like the hell we aren't and steals the Enterprise and of course his crew is faithful and they they go with him they go with him and it's who's the

:: 10:07

beggar no beggar I can't remember the whole the whole movie I have a question again yeah it's about Genesis it's

:: 10:14

starting to bother me how long does this Genesis

:: 10:20

um just keep like I know Spock was sent to that planet not long after

:: 10:27

created the planet but my goodness if it takes him and makes him a baby then how

:: 10:35

long is this process that does it keep growing and growing the scientists said that the Matrix is formed in seconds and

:: 10:43

then the life from that Matrix grows at an accelerated rate so it wouldn't necessarily be that all the in the movie

:: 10:49

you see all the plants and trees already and and that's fairly rapid uh but that ongoing process would have been slower

:: 10:55

than the initial laying of the Matrix kind of thing but I mean it's all within about a week or so wouldn't it like it's

:: 11:01

goes from desolate to fully grown yes yes uh and I don't know I don't but is

:: 11:08

that does that after a certain point go okay we're done yeah okay that's the way I is yeah at some point it would have

:: 11:14

just been sustaining like a regular Planet so nobody else did buried there would come back and it should come up

:: 11:19

completely empty okay yes I don't think I don't think if you went there and died you would come back to life I think in

:: 11:25

the third years later the third one they're doing scans but Genesis you were a body floating maybe yeah yeah I think

:: 11:31

that's true yes if you're doing scans are like what is this your body floating in space in the nebula right then and it

:: 11:37

picks you up then you'd be a baby because uh Spock was shot out as that planet was forming giving us so they're

:: 11:44

running from the shock wave of this Genesis right because they established it this Genesis is if it if it were to

:: 11:49

happen on Earth it'd wipe out all life right so and restart its own you know so say spot couldn't fix the the warp drive

:: 11:57

or whatever right so another plan is they could have all killed each other right like a big suicide pack thing and

:: 12:02

then when the Shockwave hits them a bunch of babies on the cone yeah maybe I'm not sure it probably would have

:: 12:09

destroyed the shot no they weren't aware of that but I mean no it would have destroyed the ship yes no you're right yeah so then but maybe floating in space

:: 12:14

and they die anyways I think what it was was the planet had

:: 12:20

the next one opens on a baby Kirk but how as a scientist how do you do a test okay we need six guys to kill themselves

:: 12:27

they want to see if this thing this whole thing is designed on that kind of thing ah there's six red shirts right over there no absolutely hey step into

:: 12:35

this room all right just trying to understand the the logic of this thing yeah I think

:: 12:42

Genesis was in the process of the second or third day no I guess it

:: 12:47

would have been what the same day like they shot the planet with Jen or the Genesis planet formed yeah and then they

:: 12:53

shot Spock onto it after it already formed so maybe they caught it in some kind of cycle regeneration thing and you

:: 12:59

know the establish it brings back life like I didn't brought with him come back to life or anything yeah there's no way Spock's staying dead I mean you want to

:: 13:05

piss off Star Trek fans right we have a 10-year Gap we make a shitty movie and then we you know we're back on the

:: 13:12

second one and so this is like a risky you know not reboot but a risky like Sequel and then they go let's [ __ ]

:: 13:18

kill Spock known the thinking on that that's pretty bold if it doesn't work well we're into

:: 13:25

the series The Spark [ __ ] dead I think Leonard Nimoy said I'm not good man [ __ ] kill me he pulled the Harrison Ford type thing yeah yeah and

:: 13:32

then they brought him back in anyways well I got you yeah well uh yes and I I

:: 13:37

would like to know the thought process on Star Trek 3 because I think I think at that point I think at some point Nimoy Embraces oh yeah who he was he

:: 13:46

embraced that paycheck they kept giving him and directing opportunities and all that stuff yeah because I know I think

:: 13:52

he did four I don't know if he did three or not I I don't know I think the director yeah that I don't know yeah

:: 13:57

either way all right anything else about the Beats or whatever hmm nope okay we're moving into our past

:: 14:04

consider recommend [Music]

:: 14:13

hi I absolutely of course recommend this being on the I don't recommend Star Trek one at all but this is what fans were

:: 14:20

waiting for I think I think some of the science may be problematic like you say but that's a deep dive nerdum and but if

:: 14:26

you are even a middle of the road Star Trek fan this delivers I think and it really it's cool that it's a sequel to a

:: 14:33

show smartly done I think I think it's everything and I think as when we talk

:: 14:39

about Ghostbusters too I think that delivers everything the fans wanted I think this this movie delivers

:: 14:45

everything the fans wanted that the first one didn't uh as pure Star Trek I

:: 14:50

I highly recommend as a movie I recommend it but certainly a Star Trek fan cannot find

:: 14:55

disappointment in this as as the fandom says it's like 90 approved so I highly

:: 15:01

recommend it yeah I'm the same way I'd recommend it I'm not a die-hard Star Trek fan but I have

:: 15:07

watched all of them and this is the one like I agree with you the first one uh I don't I barely remember it yeah but the

:: 15:13

second one really got me fired up to watch the third one the fourth one and on and on and they're all good movies this one's probably the best of them yes

:: 15:20

uh other than Undiscovered Country I think this one was supposed to be called Undiscovered Country yeah and then it

:: 15:26

was called revenge of con or wrath of not rap it is Wrath of Khan it was something else but Return of the uh

:: 15:33

Return of the Jedi was coming out no no was it 82 82 yeah yeah I came out in 83

:: 15:39

and eventually were like originally that was called revenge of the Jedi yeah and they were kind of like okay we can't have it competing titles so now it's

:: 15:45

Wrath of Khan but I'm more of a Star Wars fan show myself but this great movie totally recommend it it's even if

:: 15:52

you just watch this one sure you can speak to it but she's not a Star Trek fan by any stretch I mean she likes it I guess she can talk about it but she she

:: 15:59

said she was she was into it the whole time and thank you for answering me it's a great movie I mean like if you if you

:: 16:06

okay so what James was saying in my opinion if you only had to watch or if you could only pick one Star Trek movie

:: 16:12

I think this one would be it um out of all the Star Trek movies that have ever been made yes I think this I think out

:: 16:18

of this set I mean I I'd like them all but like yeah I think this this delivers it's a

:: 16:26

it's a callback to the original series all the original I I think it hits on all cylinders as far as Star Trek nerdum

:: 16:32

and love yeah I think it's the crown jewel of that ain't that OG cast yeah

:: 16:38

the original everybody that is the crown jewel of it yeah so totally totally recommend yeah it's a consider I guess

:: 16:44

for me yeah um it's not a pass it's just to consider like you know if you're a fan of the the

:: 16:51

ones with you know the newer one for the pine and you haven't seen these go back and check it and check it out or and

:: 16:56

again it's I guess I agree with everything you're saying as far as being the Crown Jewel and it's the original right so it's hard not to you know pay

:: 17:03

homage that because none of the other stuff would exist without it sure um but yeah I guess just as a like I

:: 17:08

enjoy the new ones way more than I enjoyed this one for sure it did not hold up to me it was very dated very and

:: 17:14

I hate to say that because I love movies that are older and I know it was very 80s it was very very like early 80s and

:: 17:20

moving movies that I like or even enjoy more like all like look you know look

:: 17:25

past all the [ __ ] that doesn't hold up because I enjoy them more where this one I I couldn't and that's really not fair because there's all kinds of movies that

:: 17:31

you know you overlook [ __ ] if you enjoy it more but I don't know like uh well it I think it is a generational thing too

:: 17:37

because then next Generation came on and and and you know uh I remember watching more of

:: 17:44

those and there were people who that was their first introduction to Star Trek and became absolute nerds about Star

:: 17:49

Trek but to them their Captain's Picard always yeah uh what is it Picard is a

:: 17:54

better Captain than Kirk as a superior Captain I think he's more uh uh that'll

:: 18:00

piss off there's debate again right so nerd them you don't want to get into that but I mean I think they're two

:: 18:06

different styles of Captain yeah I think uh Kirk is way more Brash and uh prone

:: 18:12

to asymmetrical thinking he's got better hair sure uh but I think uh Picard is a have you

:: 18:19

seen the ones with the card screen test where they put hair on him that looks weird it does yeah it does that's weird

:: 18:26

yeah no we were um we were I mean we were somewhere uh late tonight looking at movies or whatever or something and

:: 18:33

he saw uh he saw Picard and I guess he finally put it together that oh Picard

:: 18:38

is uh that Star Trek he's the captain and he so he hasn't he's seen the ones with pine and that's probably you see

:: 18:45

that's what it is what happened to Kirk and I go oh well for cards after Kirk

:: 18:50

and he you know obviously I wasn't you know I could explain a little bit of it but I'm not a turkey you should show him

:: 18:55

uh what was the generations Star Trek generation there's a bridge a bridge movie that yeah yeah

:: 19:01

you were like flipping your pants or something I saw that in the theater yeah yeah I saw Undiscovered Country and that

:: 19:07

one in the theater the generations and actually one of the things I like about it is the um we're gonna talk about a little bit

:: 19:12

earlier is Kirk says at the beginning that move I remember right that talking about with Spock and McCoy because he's

:: 19:18

climbing the the mountain and he slips and falls right and they catch him yep um and he goes I know that when I die

:: 19:23

I'll die alone because it didn't go into what you're saying about them being his brain in his heart right they're not with him and that's how he beats all the

:: 19:29

bad guys because they work together yes so later on yeah he has picardo but those guys aren't with him and he you know when he dies or whatever oh yeah

:: 19:36

that's good no it's good uh but yeah I don't know it's considering if you like sci-fi like you know you want to check

:: 19:41

this out but yeah it is I guess I can't I think I 90 percent of fans that love this are the ones who

:: 19:48

fell in love with the Original Series so it depends when they were introduced to

:: 19:53

Star Trek I think right where your loyalties lie and and there is a huge

:: 19:58

base of Star Trek fans that sure like Kirk but Picard is their captain and it's interesting like I janeways I

:: 20:04

recommend Star Trek but not always good this one I guess you know what I mean like you know I can't recommend you know

:: 20:10

this one for everyone I guess does that make sense like you should definitely check out some form of Star Trek at some

:: 20:15

point it shouldn't be your entry point yeah I don't know this is yeah this is the right one for everybody you know I I

:: 20:21

guess you have to pick that but I think I think people who loved it like because I knew immediately oh it's based on us

:: 20:27

on a on a show I know which show it is I know the you know I immediately went back to the original show I know what

:: 20:32

this is this is awesome somebody who's like into into next Generation wouldn't

:: 20:38

have that base yeah to drop on well that's you know and like I love the original series but but

:: 20:45

it was low budget and a lot of times and it was the 60s yeah right yeah right

:: 20:51

anyway um anyway so Sarah you're up okay so

:: 20:56

Philip you know that I'm not into a lot of sci-fi shows like like this right

:: 21:02

however every time I have watched when we have actually watched the original series

:: 21:09

enjoyed it yeah surprising oh it surprised me how much I enjoyed it

:: 21:14

um even to the point we started watching the Oroville yeah surprised me that I

:: 21:19

really like that I think yeah yeah and and and it does remind me a lot of Star Trek yes

:: 21:26

right and when Discovery came out it was not immediately received by fans and people

:: 21:32

were saying well the Orville is the Star Trek we were waiting for yeah you know it's crazy I I think discovery's pretty

:: 21:38

good it does play around with the timeline which Pine movies do but anyway anyway so uh yes I I recommend it um I

:: 21:48

enjoyed it I think I even saw I don't know if I saw this one but I've seen some of the older ones in the movie

:: 21:54

theater um I remember the scenes I don't remember the whole stories but I do

:: 22:01

remember the ear thing yeah yeah and um and then you reminded me or you told me

:: 22:06

which one I was talking about being in San Francisco she thought that was I was like is this

:: 22:12

the episode no the fourth one Star Trek four yeah the whales uh is that what

:: 22:17

it's called Star Trek for the whales that's not

:: 22:25

we went to see the the newer ones in the theater and it surprised me how much I I

:: 22:30

like that and it's it's quality of character story yeah uh Star Trek four

:: 22:36

is very much more comedic I think you know there's I think it it's more it's lighter uh the one with the whale yeah

:: 22:43

too much LDS in the 60s I love LDS in the 60s because they they're trying to go undercover you know and why is he

:: 22:50

dressed like that well too much LDS and he meant to say hello anyway those are several light moments

:: 22:56

and it's it involves travel yes they go back to oh yeah because whales risk

:: 23:03

um they run up against an alien that is speaking in basically whale song I think

:: 23:08

and there's no whales anymore and they have to go back and get a whale and then meet a sign I can't remember all of it

:: 23:14

but they do lineups yeah they do wind up saving the whales for the 23rd Century Leonard Nimoy did direct that one yes

:: 23:21

yeah I believe that for sure yeah that's somebody's [ __ ] passion projects

:: 23:26

it's good so who are the bad guys they couldn't the guys who worked out the whales they couldn't do a replicator of

:: 23:32

a whale yeah enough I don't think it can uh

:: 23:37

yeah but it's not it's inanimate matter I don't think you can when you're talking about that replica don't they do

:: 23:43

that on the Orville too I think so they have that's how they get their food or their drinks or whatever probably okay

:: 23:48

what they did model the Orville was Transporters because they thought it was too easy to fix because because it's

:: 23:54

like cell phones right the transporter oh I'll just beam them out so they always have to have the transporter go down or it's true but static you know

:: 23:59

it's good now like you're saying with cell phones now there's no service yeah so it's always I can't get any bars you know yeah well in Star Trek the

:: 24:05

Transporters well it's too much static but the transporter has gone down you know right uh yeah to make it because

:: 24:10

because he didn't want an easy fix in the Orville anyway okay well that's cool yeah all right that's

:: 24:16

Star Trek four and uh no two two Perfect Two movements

:: 24:25

uh where's my thing that's the you programmed it let's close this monster

:: 24:31

around does William Shatner know that he's not a captain of a Starship the

:: 24:36

screenwriter says he he had taken the account for that because he does a lot of

:: 24:43

Spock dots what I'm sure there's a podcast where four nerds are sitting around debating this right wow not these

:: 24:51

foreigners dude that's that whole shelf of books

:: 24:57

probably is uh Scotty's squeezed out a couple extra yes whatever and then they

:: 25:03

can go what the [ __ ] kill [ __ ] yes I I I would have also known the thinking on that ah that'll piss off well there's

:: 25:10

the bait again right so uh there's six red shirts right over there no absolutely hey step into this room shot