Road to Perdition: A Journey Through Grit, Guilt, and Redemption
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Snyder's Genres:
MONSTER IN THE HOUSE - MONSTER, HOUSES, SIN
GOLDEN FLEECE - ROAD, TEAM, PRIZE
OUT OF THE BOTTLE - A WISH, A SPELL, A LESSON
DUDE WITH A PROBLEM - AN INNOCENT HERO, A SUDDEN EVENT, A TEST OF SURVIVAL
RITE OF PASSAGE - A LIFE PROBLEM, THE WRONG WAY TO FIX IT, THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM
BUDDY LOVE - AN INCOMPLETE HERO, A COUNTERPART NEEDED TO MAKE THEIR LIFE WHOLE, A COMPLICATION THAT IS KEEPING THEM APART EVEN THOUGH THAT FORCE IS BINDING THEM TOGETHER
WHYDUNNIT? - A DETECTIVE, A SECRET, A DARK TURN
FOOL TRIUMPHANT - A FOOL, AN ESTABLISHMENT, A TRANSMUTATION
INSTITUTIONALIZED - A GROUP, A CHOICE, A SACRIFICE (JOIN, BURN IT DOWN, COMMIT SUICIDE)
SUPERHERO - A POWER, A NEMESIS, A CURSE
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The Snyder Beats:
OPENING IMAGE
THEME STATED
SETUP
CATALYST
DEBATE
BREAK INTO TWO
B STORY
FUN AND GAMES
MIDPOINT (FALSE VICTORY OR DEFEAT BUT OPPOSITE OF THE ALL IS LOST)
BAD GUYS CLOSE IN
ALL IS LOST (OPPOSITE OF THE MIDPOINT, FALSE VICTORY OR DEFEAT)
DARK NIGHT OF THE SOUL
BREAK INTO THREE
gathering the team
executing the plan
high tower surprise
dig deep down
execution of the new plan
FINALE
FINAL IMAGE
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"Welcome to the Show" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Extended license purchased.
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Listeners are treated to an in-depth exploration of *Road to Perdition*, a film that masterfully intertwines the themes of family, loyalty, and the moral complexities of a life steeped in crime. The podcast hosts dissect the character of Michael Sullivan, highlighting his struggles as a father trying to protect his son from the violent world he inhabits. They delve into the film's narrative, focusing on the pivotal moments that shape Sullivan's journey, particularly the tragedy that befalls his family, pushing him to confront his own violent past. The discussion paints a vivid picture of Sullivan's character, illustrating the conflicts he faces as he grapples with his dual identity as both a loving father and a feared enforcer, ultimately leading to a reckoning that forces him to choose between his family's safety and his own moral integrity.
The hosts further examine the role of Paul Newman's character, John Rooney, as a father figure to Sullivan, exploring the layered dynamics of their relationship. Rooney's complex motivations and ultimate betrayal serve as a catalyst for the film's emotional climax, raising questions about loyalty and the repercussions of a life built on crime. The podcast emphasizes the emotional stakes involved, inviting listeners to reflect on the sacrifices made in the name of family and the harsh realities that come with such choices. Through their analysis of key scenes, the hosts encourage a deeper understanding of the film's themes, making connections to broader societal issues related to crime, loyalty, and the struggle for redemption.
In addition to character analysis, the podcast celebrates the film's cinematography and stylistic choices, praising how the visual elements enhance the storytelling. The hosts discuss the impact of the film's aesthetic, noting how the use of lighting and composition contributes to the overall tone of the narrative. They reflect on how *Road to Perdition* captures the essence of noir storytelling, blending moments of beauty with stark realities, and ultimately leaving a lasting impression on its audience. This episode serves as a compelling examination of *Road to Perdition*, making it a valuable listen for film enthusiasts and anyone interested in the intricate storytelling that defines great cinema.
Takeaways:
- The character of Michael Sullivan demonstrates profound internal conflict between duty and familial loyalty throughout the film.
- Tom Hanks' portrayal in Road to Perdition showcases his versatility, moving from comedic roles to a dark, complex character.
- The cinematography and visual storytelling effectively enhance the film's noir atmosphere and emotional depth.
- The film presents a compelling exploration of father-son relationships, highlighting the burdens of legacy.
- The discussion highlights how the film's themes of loyalty and betrayal resonate deeply with the audience.
- The impact of violence on family dynamics is central to the narrative's progression and ultimate tragedy.
Other films mentioned in this episode:
- Godfather
- Godfather II
- The Burbs
- American Beauty
- Skyfall
- Spectre
- 13th Warrior
- Casino
- Road to Perdition
Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcript
Don't say anything.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Oh, no.
Speaker A:You can say anything you want.
Speaker B:Whatever.
Speaker B:To me.
Speaker B:To me, it is actually like taking sandpaper to my soul.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:That was one of my scenes that I actually put my phone down and watched.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Ridley Scott did not have a fun time shooting this movie in America.
Speaker C:Basically dies.
Speaker C:He spiritually dies and is reawakened three days later.
Speaker C:Somebody clip that Market put it in the trailer.
Speaker A:There was a scene with an octopus, but they cut it out.
Speaker B:Oh, really?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Still one of my favorite characters in all of cinema.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:The wife did not agree that it's a perfect movie at all.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker D:You think you pick up all the bus driver's teeth, they'll give you a medal.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:It's high in calories, low in nutrition is why, I guess is one way to look at it.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But I love eating a box of donuts, man.
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay, here we are.
Speaker B:Fellowship of the Real.
Speaker B:This time it's Road to Perdition.
Speaker B:This was Chris's pick.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:Correct here.
Speaker B:Dear Present.
Speaker B:Bueller.
Speaker B:Bueller.
Speaker B:All right, we will get into that in just a second, but first we want to do Sherry's Notable quotables.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:You ready?
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:All right, Sherry, hit us up.
Speaker A:Okay, so this movie.
Speaker C:That was creepy.
Speaker B:Ghost cat.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker D:Just to be clear, it's your cat or it's a ghost cat that you.
Speaker A:It's quiggly.
Speaker B:He tends to push open the door like he's the boss.
Speaker B:He'll imagine that.
Speaker A:Imagine that in Our doors squeak.
Speaker A:Okay, so this movie.
Speaker A:I guess I.
Speaker A:I called it a mobster movie.
Speaker A:Is it.
Speaker A:Is it not like a.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker B:It's almost noir.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Takes place in the 30s.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Which is the traditional time.
Speaker D:They were lobsters and gangst.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay, so he mentions Capone.
Speaker D:The.
Speaker A:The quotes I got were from mafia mobster kind of movies.
Speaker A:All right, so.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't know how easy or hard these are.
Speaker B:Well, last one, you kicked her ass, so hopefully you're a little merciful.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Anyway, first one, I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse.
Speaker C:Godfather.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I was about to say yes.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Every time I get out, they pull me back in.
Speaker A:Okay, next one.
Speaker A:The town will never be the same.
Speaker B:The town will never be the same.
Speaker A:It's that kind of movie.
Speaker A:It's in that kind of town.
Speaker B:The town will never be the same.
Speaker A:The town will never be the same.
Speaker C:Chinatown.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:There's a little bit more I think they had, but it might give away.
Speaker A:Think About a town that was full of mobsters that ran the city.
Speaker D:Casino.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Really?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I haven't watched enough monster movies.
Speaker A:Monster.
Speaker B:Mobster.
Speaker B:I'm.
Speaker D:Oh, well, I mean, you know, they could be monsters.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think it was part of a.
Speaker A:A longer spill that they gave about the town.
Speaker D:Talking about Vegas.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Being run by the mob.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Casino.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:And then the last one.
Speaker A:Keep your friends close.
Speaker A:Wait a minute.
Speaker A:Before I say it, this actually is.
Speaker A:I found out a.
Speaker A:A saying that goes back to a.
Speaker A:They think an ancient Chinese military strategists.
Speaker A:SUU Sunu.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Art of war.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It says, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
Speaker A:But it's also a famous line of one of these movies.
Speaker A:Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
Speaker C:Godfather, too.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:I thought it was Godfather, but I couldn't remember if it was.
Speaker B:Yeah, I did not do well on those.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:Well, I.
Speaker C:I love the Godfather.
Speaker C:Those are great movies.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:When Godfather first came out, like, Godfather one was in the theaters, we.
Speaker B:As a kid, I remember.
Speaker B:I guess my parents went to see it, and we went to the drive in, and I was in the, you know, backseat or whatever.
Speaker B:So I saw Godfather at the drive in, and the only scene I remember is the horse head in the bed.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:As a kid, that stuck in my mind for a while.
Speaker C:Pretty early in the movie, too.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Very good.
Speaker B:Cherry.
Speaker B:Anything else?
Speaker B:That was good.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Money.
Speaker B:Critics, fans.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I had said earlier when we did 13th Warrior that these movies financially were flip flops of each other.
Speaker B:So the budget on this was 80 million for Road to Perdition.
Speaker B:Domestic, 104 million.
Speaker B:International, 76 million.
Speaker B:Worldwide, 180 million.
Speaker B:So we talk about 13th Warrior losing 100 million.
Speaker B:This made 100 million.
Speaker B:Budget of 80.
Speaker B:Made 181.
Speaker B:So the tomato score.
Speaker B:82% of the critics loved it.
Speaker B:86% of the fans loved it.
Speaker B:So high marks all around and certainly a significant profit at the box office.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:What was the.
Speaker D:What was the.
Speaker D:The box office.
Speaker D:Sorry, you said the budget was 80.
Speaker B:And then worldwide, 1.
Speaker B:181 million.
Speaker D:Nice.
Speaker B:Okay, so basically, $81 million worldwide, this movie made.
Speaker B:Whereas 13th Warrior was what, 100.
Speaker B:160 million.
Speaker B:And it made 60 million.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So this movie, all around, infinitely more successful and more well received.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:This one.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:This one made 100 million, where the.
Speaker B:Other one lost 100 million.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:What year was this?
Speaker B:This was two.
Speaker D:No, yeah, sorry.
Speaker D:2002.
Speaker D:The other one was 99.
Speaker B:99.
Speaker B:2002.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And this is Tom Hanks, who was really getting his chops.
Speaker C:Paul Newman's last movie.
Speaker B:His last movie.
Speaker B:I was wondering about that.
Speaker B:Yeah, I was actually surprised that Paul Newman was in it.
Speaker B:I'd forgotten that again, like.
Speaker B:Like 13th Warrior.
Speaker B:I'd seen this one time.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It had quite a few.
Speaker C:Like, it was.
Speaker C:The credits were rolling.
Speaker C:I was like, damn.
Speaker C:Daniel Craig, Jennifer, Jason Lee.
Speaker B:I did.
Speaker B:I forgot all about her, and I didn't even recognize her.
Speaker C:Oh.
Speaker B:The first time I watched it, and then I watched it with Sherry, and I was like, oh, yeah, that's her.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:A lot of heavy hitters in this movie.
Speaker A:Well, can I be honest?
Speaker A:Can I tell them what I thought?
Speaker A:Yeah, I.
Speaker A:I really didn't want to watch this movie because.
Speaker D:So you were cussing me go, why?
Speaker D:He picked that up.
Speaker A:I was like, what is this?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:I thought we were getting ready to watch Lady Killers.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:She didn't even.
Speaker D:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:The whole time she's bitching and moaning.
Speaker B:She's like.
Speaker A:I was like, really?
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:I've seen this.
Speaker A:I don't like this movie.
Speaker A:I said, didn't the.
Speaker A:Those brothers do it?
Speaker A:And I couldn't think of the Coen brothers.
Speaker A:And then when we start watching, I was like, wait a minute.
Speaker A:This is it.
Speaker A:I think that's a different movie.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The two young brothers in this.
Speaker B:Peter and Michael.
Speaker B:The guy that.
Speaker B:The kid that played Michael.
Speaker B:Both Sherry and I were like, I've seen this guy somewhere before.
Speaker B:Maybe as an older.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:They said he went on and he was Superman.
Speaker D:And like.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Realize it right away.
Speaker D:When he saw him, he's like, hey, that's Superman.
Speaker D:I'm like, what?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:No, there's no Superman in this scene, kid.
Speaker D:And then he.
Speaker D:No, no, on the cw.
Speaker D:And it's like, he's older now.
Speaker D:I'm like, okay.
Speaker D:Yeah, I guess this movie is that.
Speaker B:Old, because even as a young kid, he's.
Speaker B:He looks like.
Speaker B:I thought his.
Speaker B:His face looked way more mature than his age, you know, that.
Speaker B:That he.
Speaker B:You could see sort of the potential for being a leading man.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:In this kid, you know?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:But I don't know, outside of that, what else he's been in.
Speaker A:Yeah, I looked it up, but I didn't.
Speaker A:Yeah, I really didn't recognize him as an adult.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I haven't seen him.
Speaker C:A lot of stuff I haven't seen.
Speaker C:He's done quite a bit.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Majority of it, though.
Speaker C:Batman.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Supergirl.
Speaker C:Superman and Lois.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Teen Wolf.
Speaker B:A lot of cw.
Speaker B:Stuff.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:He's probably under contract with CW or whatever.
Speaker C:A lot of Final Fantasy stuff.
Speaker D:Oh, nice.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker B:Anyway, yeah, I thought.
Speaker B:But I thought he did a good job.
Speaker C:Yeah, I.
Speaker C:I thought he did great.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, all around.
Speaker B:Well received and made a lot of money.
Speaker B:Anything else preliminary before we get into the beats?
Speaker C:This was my first time seeing this movie ever.
Speaker C:Ever.
Speaker C:Never seen it, so I hadn't.
Speaker C:I didn't know what to expect.
Speaker C: surprised that it was, what,: Speaker C:1939, they said 31.
Speaker D:31.
Speaker C:31.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:The main event.
Speaker B: Six weeks in: Speaker C:So it's interesting, my.
Speaker C:My.
Speaker C: great grandfather was born in: Speaker C:Tom Hanks's.
Speaker C:Roughly in this movie.
Speaker C:So it was interesting to see, like, man, that's.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:What he could have been doing.
Speaker B:I forgot I'd seen it once and we owned it.
Speaker B:I'd forgotten that there were few humorous parts in this.
Speaker B:Lighter parts.
Speaker B:I remember being very dark.
Speaker B:Dark all the way through, but there were humorous parts that I completely forgotten.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:Watching it at all.
Speaker D:Like the driving and stuff.
Speaker D:To drive.
Speaker B:Could I have had more?
Speaker D:We made it.
Speaker D:Oh, yeah.
Speaker D:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:We made it.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:It does.
Speaker D:The clutching.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:The money part of.
Speaker C:Could I have had more?
Speaker C:You'll never know.
Speaker B:Never know.
Speaker B:Damn.
Speaker C:I've said that same thing.
Speaker C:200 bucks.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, in his world, 200 bucks was a fortune.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:So the.
Speaker D:The writers, it's.
Speaker D:It was based off a graphic novel by.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I was surprised to see that it was a graphic novel based.
Speaker B:I thought it was truly a book.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:You know, and then David Self was a screenwriter and he did 13 days and then he did the Hunting and Wolfman.
Speaker D:Born Identity.
Speaker B:Oh, really?
Speaker D:Yeah, He.
Speaker D:I guess.
Speaker D:Script revision.
Speaker D:Uncredited.
Speaker B:Yeah, sure.
Speaker D:Anyhow, the Haunting.
Speaker A:Is that the one with.
Speaker D:Yeah, I liked that.
Speaker B:The Born Identity has some of the best action scenes.
Speaker B:I really like Born Identity.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:And then Sam Mendez is the director and he did American Beauty and then he did several.
Speaker D:The.
Speaker D:He did Skyfall and Specter, like several.
Speaker D:Several of the.
Speaker D:Sorry.
Speaker D:James Bond.
Speaker D:The more recent Bond ones with Craig, which is interesting.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:When I saw Daniel Craig, I was.
Speaker B:Because there's the guy that played Maguire, the killer.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Jude Law.
Speaker B:Drew Law.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Both very young.
Speaker B:I'd completely forgotten they were in it.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:So most the way through, you know, I'm watching this movie and I'm like, oh, my God, that's him.
Speaker B:Oh, my God, that's him, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, several times.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I usually like Jude Law, but.
Speaker A:Oh, he did not.
Speaker B:Well, he did.
Speaker B:He looked like a creep, you know, pre surgery.
Speaker C:Jude Law.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:No, that was prosthetics they had on him.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I was gonna say.
Speaker C:That's what I like to say was like, oh, Jude Law.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:And his finger.
Speaker D:Fingernails were really, really long.
Speaker D:Way long.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:Late.
Speaker D:Saw the fingernails first, I guess, whenever he was watching a little bit.
Speaker D:And he goes.
Speaker D:Then we saw his face.
Speaker D:Oh, that's a guy.
Speaker A:Well, listen, I think I said the same thing.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:I shoot the dead.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:No, I, I.
Speaker B:Yeah, I liked his performance.
Speaker B:All right, any.
Speaker B:Anything else before we get into the beats?
Speaker B:Nope.
Speaker B:All right, opening image.
Speaker B:Now, we talked about this.
Speaker B:This movie as well as 13th Warrior.
Speaker B:So it's kind of like a bookend.
Speaker B:Starts off with a prologue of sorts, as did 13th Warrior.
Speaker B:A prologue of a child suggesting.
Speaker B: ael Sullivan in the winter of: Speaker B:So we get this prologue that ends with the same scene.
Speaker B:Basically circles back, which we'll get to when we get to the closing image.
Speaker B:Now, as an opening image is because there's.
Speaker B:I guess I was torn because that's.
Speaker B:That's Michael's.
Speaker B:That's Mike, the kid who's named after his father.
Speaker B:But are we looking for Michael Sullivan's opening image, the father?
Speaker B:Because that's.
Speaker B:I guess I kind of keyed off that.
Speaker B:Instead of.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:I think the kids telling the story, but I think Hanks is.
Speaker D:He's the one that changes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:I mean, they both change, but the.
Speaker D:I think.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:The ultimate.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I went.
Speaker B:I went with an opening image.
Speaker D:There's all things about whether it.
Speaker D:Was he a decent man or was he, you know, no good at all or whatever.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's what he says at first.
Speaker C:Like, some people said he was no good.
Speaker B:No good.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:No good in him whatsoever.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:There you go.
Speaker B:So I have the opening image being of Michael Sullivan, the.
Speaker B:The father.
Speaker B:Opening image.
Speaker B:Stern, aloof, with a loyalty to work that rivals and sometimes comes before family.
Speaker B:I can't go to your concert tonight, Peter.
Speaker B:I have work.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Sacrificing time with this kid because he's got this job.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:And just.
Speaker D:And very cold.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Like when Michael goes.
Speaker D:Junior goes up to tell him the dinner's ready.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's it.
Speaker D:Thank you.
Speaker B:And he doesn't even look at him.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:And menacing.
Speaker B:He's loading, unloading and securing his weapon.
Speaker D:There's a small gesture.
Speaker D:I Think he covers the gun with his jacket, but yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:In turn.
Speaker D:And this is one thing that, to me, I really like about this movie is, you know, it's Tom Hanks.
Speaker D:This is, you know, this is big.
Speaker D:This is.
Speaker D:This guy used to be, you know, comedic actor.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker D:When he started.
Speaker D:He's very menacing in this and very cold.
Speaker D:And like, his, you know, has these.
Speaker D:Just a lot of the looks in his eyes.
Speaker D:He did a really good job.
Speaker D:I mean, obviously makes an amazing actor, but it's.
Speaker D:To me, the role was outside of the norm for him.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, Yeah.
Speaker C:I saw.
Speaker C:I saw in these notes here that Colin Hanks, Tom Hanks son, said that this is his favorite role because it is the antithesis of what Tom Hanks is.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's like.
Speaker C:He's so nice.
Speaker C:He's so.
Speaker B:Yes, right.
Speaker C:This character is so opposite of Tom Hanks that that's his favorite.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And I guess that's.
Speaker B:That's, to some degree why I forgot that there were humorous parts in it later or later, lighter parts.
Speaker B:Because all I remember is the stern, dark noir, Storm, night rain.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Like, his iconic laugh is not nowhere in this movie like Tom Hanks.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:And now later, he goes up when he discovers his wife and kid, and you hear Tom Hanks whale.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I heard a little bit of Tom Hanks in that whale, but.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, like.
Speaker B:Like from the.
Speaker B:The burbs or whatever, you know, but it was.
Speaker B:It didn't border on the comedic.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:When he found.
Speaker A:When he realized it was his son who was watching the shooting, you know, saw the shoot, was expecting.
Speaker A:Are you kidding?
Speaker A:You know, that.
Speaker B:That femur bone.
Speaker A:Yeah, I was expecting that.
Speaker A:And I was like, okay, that didn't happen.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:His normal outburst is going.
Speaker D:He's very reserved.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like you said, this is based on a graphic novel.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:That kind of surprised me, but that's about.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I think we're going with the opening image of.
Speaker B:Of Michael Sullivan.
Speaker B:Stern, aloof, loyalty to work that rivals family.
Speaker B:Anything else we want to talk about on his opening image?
Speaker B:Any thoughts?
Speaker B:I thought it was done well with minimal.
Speaker B:It was done with efficiency, which means images and gestures.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Carried momentum more than having to explain.
Speaker B:You got a sense of Michael Sullivan almost immediately.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Through the eyes of the kid and through what you're seeing.
Speaker D:Yeah, even.
Speaker D:And just in their relationship, too.
Speaker D:Because Peter.
Speaker D:Because he was warmer to Peter.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Peter runs to see him when the car pulls in.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And then the older boys.
Speaker D:Michael just stands there and looks at a distance Right.
Speaker D:Like he didn't rush to go greet his dad, who just got home.
Speaker B:And we learned that Michael and I didn't really think about the kidney being named after his dad till maybe halfway through, but is very much like his father.
Speaker B:Like, he's into throwing dice.
Speaker B:Now, I don't know if Michael Sullivan threw dice, but Mike the kid.
Speaker B:Michael Sullivan is very much in that world.
Speaker B:As opposed to.
Speaker C:He's on that path.
Speaker A:He stole that tobacco.
Speaker A:Tobacco.
Speaker B:I thought it was a candy bar first, but he's smoking a pipe later.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:But he's smoking and then later you see him smoking a pipe.
Speaker B:So I'm Right.
Speaker D:But also just.
Speaker D:I guess there's more themes, I guess.
Speaker D:But he's.
Speaker D:He's play fighting.
Speaker D:Play death.
Speaker D:Fake pretending.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:At the beginning.
Speaker D:And he's about to get a very real taste.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker D:You know.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:Like loss of innocence.
Speaker D:For sure.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:And he's reading the.
Speaker D:The Lone Ranger book.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:It's also talking about, you know, like, fiction versus fact as far as death.
Speaker D:And.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:He's not bad, guys.
Speaker B:Peter does concerts and is good at math and studying.
Speaker B:That is not Michael's world.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Right away you could see that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That he was more akin.
Speaker B:And then later.
Speaker B:Later that the woman at the.
Speaker B:That after he gets shot, he goes to.
Speaker B:He dotes on you.
Speaker B:You don't see it.
Speaker D:See it.
Speaker B:But he's very much like his father and wants to be like his father.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:And his father does not want him to be like him.
Speaker B:We'll get into that as we go.
Speaker B:Now, the only thing that I could.
Speaker B:And I thought this was echoed throughout.
Speaker B:So I'm kind of comfortable with saying this is the theme stated.
Speaker B:But as always, I'm very interested to see what you guys thought.
Speaker B:I have.
Speaker B:As the theme stated, as stated by Paul Newman's character.
Speaker B:Rooney.
Speaker B:John Rooney, the leader, the boss, whatever, who ran this town.
Speaker B:Like God runs the earth or whatever.
Speaker B:Sons are put on this earth to trouble their fathers.
Speaker B:And I thought that that was sort of echoed and reiterated in certain scenes throughout the movie.
Speaker B:Did.
Speaker B:Did you guys have a theme?
Speaker B:Was that it?
Speaker B:Or did you come up with something else?
Speaker D:Yeah, I had one.
Speaker D:I guess a different one, but because it's a little bit earlier, it's still kind of late.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:For as far as the, you know, five minutes in.
Speaker D:Because that.
Speaker D:I think that's even later.
Speaker D:Yeah, it's definitely about fathers and sons.
Speaker D:So that.
Speaker D:That probably matches.
Speaker D:I had the.
Speaker D:When he gives them.
Speaker D:After Michael witnesses the.
Speaker D:Them Killing the.
Speaker D:The guy Finn, the brother Finn.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Rooney comes over and.
Speaker D:To pay him his debt from the dice.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:And he says.
Speaker B:Oh yeah.
Speaker D:He says a man of honor always pays his debt and keeps his word.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I guess talking about the dice.
Speaker D:Talk about the dice.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Here you are.
Speaker D:But.
Speaker D:But it's.
Speaker D:To me, I guess it was like the whole thing about honor.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:And he wouldn't go up as his son and he wouldn't do the.
Speaker D:Tom Paul Newman wouldn't do what was right and do the right thing.
Speaker D:You know what I mean?
Speaker D:And then Hank's kept his word as far as well, I'm going to take this all the way to the end, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:But the father and sons is.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's definitely about fathers and sons.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I think, I guess I felt.
Speaker D:Like they didn't keep their word to Mike either.
Speaker D:Like Rooney didn't like he's the thing with Finn.
Speaker D:Like he didn't identify with Finn.
Speaker D:Like Finn was the bad guy.
Speaker D:He didn't deserve die.
Speaker D:But Tom Hanks does not agree with where Finn's at about.
Speaker D:You know, because he's about.
Speaker D:Because I felt like it was the same level of type of betrayal.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Like something happened with the brother.
Speaker D:The brother died.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Finn's pissed off and he's no longer on board with a.
Speaker D:Know being loyal to Rooney.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:And Mike immediately steps in.
Speaker D:I'm gonna shut that down.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:You go home and you, you know, sleep it off.
Speaker D:And then when the happens to him, he, you know, and he wrote how quickly they turn on him.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:You become sympathetic to.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Like they were.
Speaker D:They didn't, you know, they didn't honor his loyalty.
Speaker D:You know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It stated later, I'll work for you.
Speaker B:Well, you know, you're protecting him already.
Speaker B:We're protecting our interests.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So everything comes before family.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Which is what he was doing.
Speaker D:Yep.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So I think we're.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think we're definitely hitting on it.
Speaker B:Anything else about that?
Speaker B:It's interesting as we're talking we're able to name the characters whereas in 13.
Speaker B:In 13th Warrior.
Speaker C:Yeah, good point.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So you get a clear sense of each of these characters now and you learn their names.
Speaker B:I think I.
Speaker B:Even when his name Connor, the son of Rooney.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So even him and McGuire.
Speaker B:I'm able to remember the assassin's name which I.
Speaker B:And that's not trying to remember it.
Speaker B:So you're introduced to these characters and they make an impression.
Speaker D:And to be fair, there's not 13.
Speaker B:Of them that is true.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:I guess you're.
Speaker D:You're absolutely right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:All these characters are unique.
Speaker D:You're not going to confuse Maguire with Connor.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker D:Or even rant the accountant, you know.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Soft boiled egg.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Congratulation.
Speaker D:I want a hard boiled egg, but I want it running.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Even le.
Speaker D:Like what I was like.
Speaker D:I know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Douchebag.
Speaker B:All right, setup.
Speaker B:We've talked about some of this.
Speaker B:Two boys, one studious and sensitive one.
Speaker B:Not one, not so much named after his father.
Speaker B:Prone to dice.
Speaker B:Not put off by death necessarily.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Now, Peter won't go up to the casket.
Speaker B:Michael will and asks about the ice and.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And now this.
Speaker B:And this is where you begin to trust the writers in the movie because they're delivering information to you in a way that sticks with you, that defines character.
Speaker B:You know, there's a theory that even action scenes need to define character.
Speaker B:An action scene just for an action scene.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:But it should.
Speaker B:You're wasting your space if you're not also defining character.
Speaker B:Like, I think the example was Daniel Craig in one of the James Bond movies is a hammer.
Speaker B:John.
Speaker B:This James Bond is a hammer.
Speaker B:And it shows him smashing things.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Blunt instrument.
Speaker B:Blunt instrument.
Speaker D:That's what M calls him.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And so you see him smashing through.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Being a blunt and chasing the bad guys.
Speaker B:Smashing through walls, you know.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Anyway, action scenes that.
Speaker D:That don't, you know, advance anything and show character.
Speaker D:Always think of Transformers looking at you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's just shiny bits and it happens so fast.
Speaker B:It's even hard to focus sometimes on.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Anyway, focus.
Speaker D:But it doesn't matter.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Not timid about stealing.
Speaker B:Takes the.
Speaker B:So he's not as sensitive to maybe some of the things that his father's not sensitive to.
Speaker B:You know, like you could see, like James said, he's on that path.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:And I like the.
Speaker D:I called it.
Speaker D:Minute.
Speaker D:Had a note.
Speaker D:No fun, Mike.
Speaker D:And he's just being.
Speaker D:Being a dad.
Speaker D:But he.
Speaker D:He goes, michael, this is awake.
Speaker D:I don't want to see those dice.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So you immediately get.
Speaker D:Rooney undermines that by.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:But it's all carried.
Speaker B:So that's all.
Speaker B:So, yeah, Rooney is the, you know, doting criminal, you know, other father or whatever.
Speaker D:Right, right.
Speaker B:And they love him.
Speaker D:You know, gets to be the.
Speaker D:The uncle that breaks all the rules.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And then a doting mother.
Speaker B:Mothers.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And you see all this and so you immediately know the characteristics of each of these.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Which I'll see how much he's not involved outside of the thank you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:When he's struggling with the homework dad doesn't say I'll help you with it later.
Speaker D:Mom does.
Speaker B:Oh yeah, I'll help you with that later.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Annie.
Speaker B:I guess Annie's the mother's name.
Speaker B:Peter and Michael throwing dice with an elderly gentleman.
Speaker B:At this point I wasn't quite sure who he was but he's the boss.
Speaker B:John Rooney, the brother of Finn whose wake they going to rules the town as God rules the earth.
Speaker B:And you can instantly sense that he is not content about something.
Speaker B:Now he is saying his brother's not a liar and I think insinuation was made that his brother did lie because money has gone missing and we don't know why but we're suspecting now that it's being.
Speaker B:His brother is being accused of that and the living brother is adamant that it's not the case.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And he is on to that and talk about your loyalty later on in the warehouse.
Speaker B:He says I'm going to keep quiet because you know I want my job and blah blah blah.
Speaker B:Not I'm going to keep quiet because I'm loyal and you know I'm going to keep quiet out of just because I need the job but don't think I don't know and this kind of thing and then later we find out, you know it's Connor the who is stealing or whatever.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:It's interesting like they rush him out.
Speaker D:They want people to be keep quiet about stuff.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:But then they and they I guess in a way trust them like Connor doesn't trust anybody to keep quiet.
Speaker D:I guess that's why killed Finn and, and the family but you know like Rooney was fine with that sucks the kids saw it but he was.
Speaker B:Oh yeah.
Speaker D:He wasn't going to take out the family.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker D:I mean he's mad at Connor when.
Speaker B:He was 25 grand to leave.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:You know but, well, but even before.
Speaker D:Connor did anything, you know what I mean he just came to him talking about the dice like I think he was going to leave it at that.
Speaker B:Sure he was.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:He looks at Mike Michael Sullivan like a son.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:They hold the have the whole piano thing.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And then when, when, when Rooney finds out what his real son did almost beats the out of him and then there's.
Speaker B:He realizes you're my son.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Well I kind of figured the reason they didn't at first or he didn't want to do anything to the kid.
Speaker A:He figured he was going to take his plate.
Speaker A:He's take Tom Hank.
Speaker D:Yeah, that's a good thought.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, he's gonna follow in your footsteps.
Speaker B:But you see, Rooney is very much cornered into this position.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Almost.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:I like the.
Speaker D:When they're playing the dice and he's like, I know when I've been hustled.
Speaker D:And then.
Speaker D:Peter, just cuff it up, old man.
Speaker D:Just.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:That's our first introduction to Connor too.
Speaker D:When he goes up there to get the.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Come back later.
Speaker D:Come back later.
Speaker D:I'm busy.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:You weren't doing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:He looks very much like a.
Speaker D:Now you instantly don't like him.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And to me.
Speaker B:And I don't remember the guy's name.
Speaker B:James from Godfather.
Speaker B:There was the.
Speaker B:The one that thought he was going to be or should be in succession, but was really just a loser when Michael Corleone.
Speaker D:I guess they don't remember his name.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But he's always like, I could do a good job.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker B:He's always whining and was a little brother.
Speaker B:Fredo might be.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:No, it was you.
Speaker D:Fredo.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:All right.
Speaker B:That is very much a Connor.
Speaker B:He's.
Speaker B:He thinks he's going to be stepping up, but you're.
Speaker C:You know, for no other reason other than he's the big man.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:You're.
Speaker B:You're a child who doesn't know his thumb from his dick, you know, which I thought was a brilliant line.
Speaker D:You didn't have anything else.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Awake for Danny.
Speaker B:Who?
Speaker B:The boss.
Speaker B:He said he did not know him well.
Speaker B:I didn't know Danny well, but, you know, it was interesting.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Michael doing a duet.
Speaker B:I wrote down Michael is Rooney's right hand, literally, as they're doing a duet on the piano.
Speaker D:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I caught that hand.
Speaker C:Right hand.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You very much think.
Speaker B:You very much think that.
Speaker B:That they are basically doing the duet in this business together.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Michael's the son that Rooney wanted the whole time and Connor is just the.
Speaker C:The up.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Upstairs.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:Sitting there grinning for.
Speaker C:Because everything's so damn hysterical.
Speaker B:And even when he gets killed by Michael.
Speaker B:I'm glad it was you.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:I think I.
Speaker B:You're almost.
Speaker B:I'm very sympathetic to Rooney.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Through all of this.
Speaker B:You know, if it's the only murderers in this room.
Speaker B:I thought that was a great.
Speaker D:And none of us.
Speaker D:There's only one certainty.
Speaker D:None of us are going to see heaven.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We get some backstory.
Speaker B:Michael Sullivan didn't have a father and Rooney took him In I guess this is when Peter's asking what does dad do?
Speaker B:Does missions for Rooney.
Speaker B:Michael, the wayward brother, knows this.
Speaker B:Peter does not.
Speaker B:Peter does things like concerts.
Speaker B:His father's father calls him a good lad.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:I think Peter is the redemption that Michael is looking for.
Speaker B:And the reason he's a little more distant with Michael is because like you said, like he says later, I see a lot of you.
Speaker B:A lot me and you and I don't want that or whatever.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:I'm back to your sons are put on this earth to trouble their fathers or even Michael troubling Rooney by not letting this go.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Because that if that is his, you know, surrogate father.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Oh, that's a good point.
Speaker B:Let's do that again.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:There is this theme of two of those.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:So far this episode.
Speaker B:Damn.
Speaker B:So that's.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's good.
Speaker B:I had.
Speaker D:Nobody told.
Speaker D:Yeah, you said it.
Speaker D:And then just thinking about.
Speaker B:Yes, yes, absolutely.
Speaker B:The father cannot go to Peter's concert because he's working.
Speaker B:We talked about this all during setup.
Speaker B:The work comes before family loyalty.
Speaker B:Michael is curious about his father's work.
Speaker B:Plays the stowaway and makes a mistake, sees everything.
Speaker B:They're now just two.
Speaker B:I wrote this.
Speaker B:There are now just two innocents, the mother and Peter.
Speaker B:Although I think the mother suspects but turns a blind eye, doesn't want to know.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:She says.
Speaker B:Because when Peter says, I got to go to.
Speaker B:When Michael says, I can't do your cuts, I gotta go to work.
Speaker B:He says, work, working.
Speaker B:Doing what?
Speaker B:And his mother says, putting food on the table.
Speaker B:Just shut that shit down.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Doesn't matter what he does.
Speaker B:I don't want to know.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker C:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker C:She knows, but don't bring it here.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:I think is what it.
Speaker C:What she knows.
Speaker D:Well, even I like how it was done.
Speaker D:Well, where the.
Speaker D:The boy wakes up from the nightmare and then they're talking about what dad does.
Speaker D:And then you can see it on Michael's face.
Speaker D:He doesn't know.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:He tries to give him some.
Speaker D:He's Right.
Speaker D:He goes on missions for Mr.
Speaker D:Rooney.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Even for the President.
Speaker D:You know, like he.
Speaker D:Like, you can see that he's.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:He's reading is his lone Ranger.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Michael is stewing over what he saw.
Speaker B:Mike, the young Michael is doing over what he saw.
Speaker B:And then this scene that I thought was very good.
Speaker B:A man of honor always pays his debts and keeps his word, which I think very could.
Speaker B:Could work as well as a theme.
Speaker D:You know, I Didn't think about it till just now.
Speaker D:I was just thinking about how I really like the framing of the scene when he's watching.
Speaker D:Because Dad's right over him.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:So you just see Dad's feet and so you see everything.
Speaker D:But he's same point of view as dad.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:If he's going to be dead.
Speaker D:Same point of view.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:All he had to do is stand up and he would have.
Speaker D:I mean, shorter, but you know what I mean?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:Like.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:And I really like the way they.
Speaker D:They frame that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:There was a lot of intent.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:In these shots and story that I think maybe was in 13th Warrior but got lost on the floor.
Speaker B:You know, as James said, they was lost in cuts.
Speaker D:Put some effort into this thing.
Speaker B:Still in Michael.
Speaker B:Michael Sullivan is an enforcer, among other things.
Speaker B:Just give me their names and off he goes.
Speaker B:So, you know, he's just a henchman.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:He's.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:He's the heavy.
Speaker B:He's the heavy.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's what I have a set up, basically giving us this world.
Speaker B:Anything else in this initial first part of the movie that we want to talk about?
Speaker D:Oh, yeah.
Speaker D:So I just remember at the, at the wake, Rooney, he's talking about the Finn's brother that's dead and the little story that he tells about him, you know.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:And tackles his own quarterback.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:So he took out his own team.
Speaker D:I felt like that was like very thematic because it's what, you know, what ends up happening.
Speaker D:Michael takes out his own.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, whereas.
Speaker B:But I think Danny, the guy that is dead, did it out of incompetence.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Michael Sullivan is.
Speaker B:Is going to be on this team knowing.
Speaker B:Because he's not happy even when he shoots.
Speaker D:Could have like teamed up in a different world.
Speaker D:You know what I mean?
Speaker D:Like if he had caught on to what Finn come around sooner.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Before he got killed.
Speaker B:Because his brother, in his little speech before he starts getting on to Rooney.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Says, you know, he's a pain in the ass when he drank, but he was stupid and he was a man of honor.
Speaker B:He never lied.
Speaker B:And so I think subtextly, I think that Danny, the dead one, knew what Connor was doing and Connor killed him.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:For sure.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Finn was on to it.
Speaker C:That's why Connor killed him.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:Because.
Speaker D:Because Hanks finds it later on with the.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:Because he throws it at the dad.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:I know this will get me in.
Speaker D:Then his reveal is.
Speaker D:I knew.
Speaker D:What the hell.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:So the catalyst now it'll be interesting to see.
Speaker B:I have.
Speaker B:When he goes to the speakeasy guy and with the note, you got a message.
Speaker B:Kill Sullivan and all debts are paid.
Speaker B:A Shakespearean set up by Rooney.
Speaker B:Because Rooney now wants to take Michael out.
Speaker B:So he gives him this note, Connor.
Speaker D:I mean, he is a Rooney.
Speaker D:He is a Rooney, but it is Connor.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Are you going?
Speaker B:No, I'm sort of under house arrest.
Speaker B:At that point you begin to suspect.
Speaker B:But then you get this.
Speaker B:And even then, I was sort of questioning, okay, is that note written by Conor or was it really written by the old man?
Speaker B:But then later, there's ample evidence.
Speaker D:I completely forgot about that.
Speaker D:Like.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:So once you start playing out, I was like, oh, shit.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:And I thought it was done very well with everybody sort of looking at each other.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:And then the guy going.
Speaker B:He's scratching his head like, oh, Mike Sullivan.
Speaker D:Because I like how they build him up too, like as he's coming through, and the guy's like, you know, can.
Speaker D:Yeah, I used to be a boxer and blah, blah.
Speaker D:And you could tell he's afraid of Sullivan again, I guess.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:There's the humor.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:It's a good idea.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:I like how they built up Sullivan to be this heavy in this.
Speaker B:Even the killer says, I know his work.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:I've never met him, but I.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, right.
Speaker B:His work.
Speaker C:Well, they.
Speaker C:They in that.
Speaker C:The scene right before he gets the letter of the.
Speaker C:The list of names.
Speaker C:They're in that little meeting with all the.
Speaker C:The higher ups.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Thing.
Speaker C:And he makes Connor apologize and that was a great scene.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:But then there, he's like, you know, give me their names and I'll go get the money.
Speaker C:And then a couple minutes later, Connor comes out on his own with the one little white envelope.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Dad forgot to give you this.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It didn't come from dad.
Speaker C:It came from Connor.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker D:Yeah, because he's sitting there stewing afterwards.
Speaker D:Because he got embarrassed in front of dad.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:And that.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Because Michael, I guess, asked him, why are you always smart?
Speaker B:Maybe it's Peter.
Speaker B:I can't remember why.
Speaker B:Why are you always smiling?
Speaker B:Because everything is just so damn hysterical.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:He's almost.
Speaker B:It almost seemed like an unhinged moment.
Speaker B:Like this guy is really not probably all there.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker C: And if it wasn't: Speaker C:Yeah, Like a lot.
Speaker C:A lot of drugs.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:But then that speakeasy guy, he was doing some kind of drugs when he.
Speaker C:When Michael got.
Speaker B:Yeah, but.
Speaker B:But that.
Speaker B:All through facial expression, that scene plays out because you could see the speakeasy guy.
Speaker A:And I kept.
Speaker A:What does it say?
Speaker A:What does the say?
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But he plays it out.
Speaker B:I mean, it's a bit part, but there are no small parts.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:But only small actors.
Speaker B:He nailed it.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Because you can.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:And then Michael starts to pick up on a vibe and sees the gun and then the boxer guys like, what's gonna happen?
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:Yeah, you know, I.
Speaker B:I love that scene that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:It shows his.
Speaker D:Him being ruthful to the Sullivan because I mean, it's survival at that point.
Speaker D:But like, you kind of like the boxer guy.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:You feel.
Speaker D:You feel better when you get shot.
Speaker B:He's just a schmuck trying to shuffle through the Great Depression, man.
Speaker D:Dress very similar to Mike, you know.
Speaker C:He would have just sat there and not pulled his gun.
Speaker C:He'd have been like, what'd you do?
Speaker C:Yeah, he probably had a job.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker D:That's right.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I guess.
Speaker D:Back to that loyalty thing.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Trying to be loyalty.
Speaker D:This the sleazy speakeasy guy.
Speaker C:And he was burning it all down anyway, so it didn't.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Am I behind again?
Speaker B:Yeah, well, you probably know you are.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:The family is now threatened.
Speaker B:Mother and Peter killed Rooney curses the day his son was.
Speaker B:Was born.
Speaker B:But it is the son after all.
Speaker B:And then Michael saying to Michael Jr.
Speaker B:This house is not our home anymore.
Speaker B:It's just an empty building.
Speaker B:I have to protect you now.
Speaker B:I have this all as the catalyst.
Speaker D:Yep.
Speaker D:That's what I got.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I want to.
Speaker B:I wanted to make something of this album.
Speaker B:This house is not our home anymore.
Speaker B:It's just an empty building.
Speaker B:He's very much able to just put a wall instantly up between my wife and kid just died was our home.
Speaker B:We can't think of it as our home anymore.
Speaker B:We can't think of them anymore.
Speaker B:We can't.
Speaker B:I guess what is in business when.
Speaker D:You said that, what came to mind to me is when he's standing at the window of the house at the end, wall is down.
Speaker D:This isn't.
Speaker D:He's thinking that as a home now.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:And it's of course his walls down.
Speaker D:So he gets.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Well, also when they come home from the wake and Peter said he had a nightmare or whatever and he said it was a haunted house or something.
Speaker C:And young Michael was just like, it's just a house.
Speaker C:Oh, that was already there.
Speaker C:So that was there before big Michael said, you know this isn't our house anymore.
Speaker C:This is just a building.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:So that it was already there.
Speaker C:Underlying.
Speaker D:Look at these writers working on stuff.
Speaker B:Oh, I tell you, I have to protect you now.
Speaker D:Excuse me, writer.
Speaker B:Now debate.
Speaker B:I have a few.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker B:So we done with Catalyst?
Speaker B:Everybody agree or to have any thoughts on Catalyst?
Speaker B:What gets him into this story?
Speaker B:I don't think there's a bigger kick in the butt into the second act than your wife and kid gets killed.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Is it a.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker D:I guess it's all just one beat.
Speaker D:I don't say is it a double bump.
Speaker D:But it's.
Speaker D:It's.
Speaker D:I guess it's not the same thing because it's Michael Jr.
Speaker D:Witnessing the stuff.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And then that leads to the family getting killed.
Speaker D:But it's not really a.
Speaker D:It's all part of the cows, I guess because if he had been Connor hadn't been a dummy then it, you know, it might have been.
Speaker D:We don't know how Sullivan Jr.
Speaker D:Would have responded.
Speaker D:But you know what I mean.
Speaker D:Like that led to the white.
Speaker D:The.
Speaker D:The rest of the family getting killed.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:And Michael was.
Speaker D:I've talked to him like he, he.
Speaker D:It wasn't going to be a big deal until.
Speaker D:Until the family got wiped out.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So like he's.
Speaker B:He's kicked into the second act with the idea that Rooney is going to kill him once and Dead.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then there's also the murder of his family.
Speaker B:Now they go hand in hand because he instantly thinks, well, if they're after me, they're going to be after my family.
Speaker A:Can I say one thing?
Speaker A:Okay, so I did freak out at that point where he's.
Speaker A:I thought the guy saw the kid standing outside.
Speaker B:Oh yeah.
Speaker B:I thought that was done.
Speaker B:Well, yeah.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:But he's looking at his refresh and.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Because that really freaked me out because.
Speaker A:But he really thought he killed the right kid.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:Because there's this whole thing in there.
Speaker D:Which one are you again?
Speaker D:Like people kept.
Speaker D:Even Rooney Senior kept mixing the kids up.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Well, I mean I say that he did it as a joke.
Speaker D:He knew which one was which.
Speaker D:But like they're.
Speaker B:Connor didn't.
Speaker D:Connor didn't.
Speaker D:Because when Sullivan comes in.
Speaker D:You're one of the Sullivan boys.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Like he.
Speaker D:To get the money.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:He didn't know which kid.
Speaker D:He thought he killed the right kid.
Speaker D:Which I wouldn't.
Speaker D:I mean again, showing how much of it he is.
Speaker B:He is very stupid.
Speaker D:Kill them both.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:You knew he had two boys why not wipe all of them out.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Well.
Speaker B:And the mother grabs the kid and turns.
Speaker B:So, yeah, his ability to see the kid.
Speaker D:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker D:Anything like that.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But yeah, he.
Speaker B:He is very much like the.
Speaker B:The character in Godfather.
Speaker B:Just the incompetent son who thinks he has rights, but.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Everybody knows he's a joke.
Speaker A:And why would you take your mask off before you leave the house anyway?
Speaker A:Someone would see you.
Speaker B:He is not a mastermind.
Speaker B:That's why he's not, you know.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:But that scene really freaked me out because I really thought he.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, the kid.
Speaker A:And he's gonna shoot.
Speaker A:The kid can't run.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, he thinks he's dead.
Speaker B:Michael thinks he's dead.
Speaker B:Until he realizes as he sticks in his hair, you know.
Speaker B:Anyway, this is what I have as a debate, which he goes to see, I guess the accountant, or it goes to see somebody.
Speaker B:And there's.
Speaker B:He goes to see Rooney, but there's a middleman who offers him $25,000.
Speaker B:Go to Ireland.
Speaker B:Go to Ireland.
Speaker C:Well, he said.
Speaker C:He said, take Peter with you to Ireland.
Speaker D:I can't take Peter.
Speaker B:Yeah, Peter's dead.
Speaker B:I guess at that point they still thought it was Michael.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:They got the real.
Speaker C:They just thought, oh, we can pay him off.
Speaker C:He'll go away.
Speaker C:Oh, we killed the run.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Oh, no, he's not going away.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:That's when he came in the window.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:They came in through the Tom Hanks character.
Speaker B:I believe so.
Speaker D:Which is.
Speaker D:Yeah, because he call back to Lone Ranger like the.
Speaker D:The image they show in the book.
Speaker D:He's coming through the window.
Speaker B:Oh, geez, Do I do another one?
Speaker B:I'm just gonna.
Speaker B:Because either we haven't done this for a while, we just want to pat ourselves on the back, or we're really scoring.
Speaker B:And I put.
Speaker B:Those are good points that I hadn't thought about.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, absolutely.
Speaker B:Let's see.
Speaker B:All right, so he doesn't take the payoff, doesn't go to Ireland, has to figure out where things stand with the man in Chicago, which I immediately thought was that capone, but it's Mr.
Speaker B:Nitty.
Speaker B:Eventually it will be Capone.
Speaker B:Yeah, but Nitty is another henchman in the line above Rooney.
Speaker B:Or maybe Rooney is above.
Speaker B:I never did figure out, is Rooney above him or is Nitty above Rooney?
Speaker B:Because it seemed like if you go into Chicago, Nitty would be sort of higher up in the hierarchy.
Speaker D:Yeah, but he was.
Speaker D:He wasn't like, bossing him around.
Speaker D:He was almost like.
Speaker D:Like a Handler or just advice, you know?
Speaker C:Yeah, I think it's more of a corporation partnership.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:He was like, think this, you know, think about this objectively.
Speaker D:What if Mike was just some guy?
Speaker D:Like, he didn't tell him what to do.
Speaker D:He just made suggestions.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:They're just trying to keep the trains running on time and the liquor business.
Speaker B:Protect our interests.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Got to be an earner.
Speaker D:So that's an earner.
Speaker D:That's a debate.
Speaker D:Do you think is this break into two when he decides we'll give him a message for me and then.
Speaker B:Well, it's a guy I have.
Speaker B:This is what I have as my debate.
Speaker B:Go to Ireland or take the payroll or I take the payoff or has to figure out.
Speaker B:Then he says, I have to figure out where things stand with the man in Chicago.
Speaker B:Come.
Speaker B:Coming to work with Nitty is not possible.
Speaker B:If you open that door, you walk through it alone.
Speaker B:So as soon as you start talking about opening and walking through the door, I'm like, okay, for second act.
Speaker B:If you open that door and you walk through it, I.
Speaker B:E.
Speaker B:Go through the second act alone, you won't make it.
Speaker B:And this is more than missing a concert.
Speaker B:Go home or go through the door alone is what I have is this debate.
Speaker B:You're protecting them already.
Speaker B:You know, you either.
Speaker B:Because people care about you, Mike, you know, and that will all go away if you step through this door alone.
Speaker B:And you won't make it.
Speaker B:Not with a kid.
Speaker B:So now he's got to decide, go through the door alone or do I swallow this pill that they're asking me to swallow and put this over my family?
Speaker B:And he.
Speaker B:He was willing to do that up to a point.
Speaker B:And that point is, would you kill my family?
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:You know, so my break into two is Mike steps out of the elevator and into the second act.
Speaker D:Oh, nice.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:He's going down in the elevator.
Speaker B:And as he leaves, Nitty, he said it's not going to be that simple.
Speaker B:Which already indicates he's not playing.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:And at that point, maybe they think because somebody steps into elevator with him, leading me to believe he's not going to make it out of the building.
Speaker C:That's right.
Speaker B:And he knows that.
Speaker B:So out of the elevator he skips and is gone.
Speaker B:And so I have that sort of.
Speaker D:Yeah, that's good.
Speaker D:Because I was thinking, I had it like when they're driving in Chicago, they're breaking into, you know, the.
Speaker B:Well, it's very much crossing the threshold.
Speaker D:But yeah.
Speaker D:It's still debate though.
Speaker D:I think you're right, because he still live nitty at egregious terms then.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Just turned a blind eye to what I have.
Speaker B:In that mind he can settle that in his mind that all debts have been paid.
Speaker B:If you want to talk about the man of honor thing.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And I'll work only for you and I'll do a good job.
Speaker B:But there are debts to be paid and men of honor pay their debts.
Speaker B:And this is a debt that's got to be paid.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:But they.
Speaker B:He was not willing to be that man of honor.
Speaker C:That's kind of a mirror image to the other security guard, the boxer guy, going, hey, if he's got anybody on the.
Speaker C:On his staff, a spot for me, I'd love to have it.
Speaker C:It's like he's just another.
Speaker C:Tom Hanks is just another gun.
Speaker C:He's just another muscle.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:They are replaceable.
Speaker C:There's guys like this guy been at the speakeasy who would easily take his spot had they killed Michael.
Speaker C:We just hire this guy.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Same thing with the Finn, Danny or whatever.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:That was Finn's brother.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker D:I didn't know him.
Speaker D:Well, whatever.
Speaker D:Again, these guys, these guys are just dime a dozen.
Speaker D:But Michael was special because, you know, they form this bond or whatever.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Very much like special to a point, but.
Speaker C:But Michael wasn't special.
Speaker C:Like when it comes to all of it, there's a million guns, there's a million guys.
Speaker D:I think Rooney refused to, you know, admit that he was special.
Speaker D:Right, right.
Speaker D:And do the right thing because he did feel differently about him, but he refused to do it.
Speaker D:That's why at the end.
Speaker D:Well, I'm glad it was you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And I deserve this because he does.
Speaker B:Not come to this decision eagerly, you know.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Talking about Michael.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Killing.
Speaker D:Killing Michael's face.
Speaker B:Making it quick.
Speaker B:Jesus.
Speaker B:Not that.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:So anyway, I said let him go.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Go.
Speaker B:Hoping to go through the door.
Speaker B:So that's my break into two.
Speaker B:Michael steps out of the elevator, into the second act.
Speaker B:I don't have anything necessarily for a B story unless you want to talk about being Michael Jr.
Speaker B:Maybe, or.
Speaker D:Yeah, that's what I wrote down.
Speaker D:Just kind of their relationship.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:I think him forcing all this happening and him going on the road with his kid forced him to, you know, look at how he was raising him and how he doesn't want him to be like him.
Speaker D:So his solution was, let me just keep my distance.
Speaker D:And that wasn't the answer.
Speaker B:It wasn't working.
Speaker C:If I do nothing like an absent father like I had.
Speaker C:Maybe I'll.
Speaker B:Well.
Speaker B:And, yeah.
Speaker C:Geez.
Speaker B:And the fact of the matter is, the more he ignored him, the more the son wanted to be close to him.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:He dotes on you.
Speaker B:You don't see it.
Speaker B:Well, he doesn't see because he didn't want to see it.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's good.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Leading us into the fun and games, which, you know, is a good part of any movie.
Speaker B:A crime scene photographer and hitman who kills for.
Speaker B:Will kill for his shot.
Speaker B:Harlan McGuire on the road to perdition.
Speaker B:Michael's aunt will take Michael in Harlan, attends Sullivan's wife's funeral, gets the line on Mike's location, and is hot on the trail.
Speaker B:I've written down Sullivan knows one when he sees one.
Speaker B:The, the whole scene in the diner, I thought was very cool, you know, eating the Both of them playing each other.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You know, Michael Sullivan, machine parts.
Speaker B:That's special.
Speaker B:I assure you it is not.
Speaker B:Which, which is a very Tom Hanks delivery, in my opinion.
Speaker B:I, I, yeah, I, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:Start sweating.
Speaker D:Stuff makes.
Speaker D:Makes you sweat, huh?
Speaker B:Oh, take.
Speaker B:Be careful there, you know?
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Acts like he's stumbling and drunk.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:Got any?
Speaker D:Got a special?
Speaker D:They're all special.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You'll be in the stage.
Speaker B:Now, this just occurred to me.
Speaker B:We both, both in 13th Warrior and this movie, we have a prologue by a character.
Speaker B:You know, both in 13th Warrior and in this movie, we have a character going up against another character who's playing weaker than he really is.
Speaker B:Hanks, acting drunk and just a benign machine part salesman, but is wise to his opponent and will eventually.
Speaker B:I don't say eventually beat him, but you know what I'm saying.
Speaker B:He's playing a ruse of weakness, like bail whiff or whatever his name was in 13th Warrior, playing the weaker.
Speaker C:You get that name right one of these times.
Speaker B:So, so Sullivan knows when he.
Speaker B:So he knows immediately this guy is not right.
Speaker B:You know, what does he say?
Speaker C:Oh, busy night tonight, like.
Speaker C:Or slow night tonight.
Speaker C:Oh, Grand Central Station.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Eat and run, I say.
Speaker B:So he takes off.
Speaker B:McGuire is not hesitant to kill anybody at any time.
Speaker D:Yeah, I like the way that was shot, too, because he's shooting whatever, and you see the cop, hey, what the hell are you doing?
Speaker D:And you don't see Maguire turn and shoot him.
Speaker D:You just see the reaction to the cop getting shot.
Speaker B:Right, Right.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Now, it was interesting to me.
Speaker B:I don't necessarily call this a weak part, but when.
Speaker B:So you get the idea that Maguire is this ultimate Killer that they use from time to time.
Speaker B:But when he first tries to kill Sullivan, it's with a shotgun.
Speaker B:And he misses every time until he goes to use the pistol.
Speaker B:And then all of a sudden you can shoot him in the arm from 100 yards, you know?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:After.
Speaker D:After glass in his face.
Speaker B:After glass in his face.
Speaker B:I'm like, dude, you need to put that shotgun down because you suck.
Speaker B:Except with the pistol, you know, his.
Speaker D:Fingernails got in the way.
Speaker D:Maybe.
Speaker B:Probably.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Maybe.
Speaker B:Eat and run.
Speaker B:Finally.
Speaker D:I thought about that.
Speaker D:You're right all over the place.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:Well, he was hiding behind the chest thing.
Speaker D:It was.
Speaker D:He was hitting the.
Speaker D:Out of his chest.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I was gonna say the way that if he was shooting that and it was bulletproof, that lid had to be a lot heavier for Tom Hanks.
Speaker C:But it looked light.
Speaker C:And then wham.
Speaker B:That's like double odd bucker.
Speaker B:So that's got to be brass balls coming at you, you know, Right out of that shotgun.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Anyway, eat and run.
Speaker B:Find the money and take it.
Speaker B:Learning to drive.
Speaker B:So we have a little.
Speaker B:A few lighter moments here.
Speaker B:Everything you're holding for Capone.
Speaker B:My name is Sullivan.
Speaker B:I mean to spell it for you.
Speaker B:Like he knows.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:So they went to rob banks and take only Capone's money.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker D:No.
Speaker C:Nobody else.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker C:Farmers.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:If I hear a farmer, then I'm going to be upset.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker C:You know, so that was.
Speaker C:That was a cool thing of.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:He's robbing banks, but he's not really robbing banks.
Speaker B:This is leverage against the mob.
Speaker B:Look, you know, right.
Speaker B:Here's, you know, hoping that this would be a tactic that would help him.
Speaker D:Bribes them with their money, you know.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:That's for you.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker D:You really not to say anything.
Speaker B:Could always trust a bank to a bank manager.
Speaker D:Well.
Speaker D:And then more humor because this is the first getaway.
Speaker D:He's a getaway driver and slow as shit.
Speaker B:No rush.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I have.
Speaker B:The wheelman is not always perfect, but getting better.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:There are several instances he almost pulls out some from somebody.
Speaker B:He's not good at this right away.
Speaker B:$200.
Speaker B:You'll never know we talked about.
Speaker D:This is all the funny games.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:This is all.
Speaker B:Connor is being protected.
Speaker B:A big baby who doesn't know his thumb from his dick.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'll be in charge one day.
Speaker B:You don't talk to me like that.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But then Tom Hanks Sullivan later says, look, as soon as you die, they're gonna kill your son.
Speaker B:He's dead either way.
Speaker B:Nobody's going to allow him to ascend.
Speaker C:That's right.
Speaker B:And he's too stupid to know that, you know, the Connor is.
Speaker B:So that's what I have as the fun and games.
Speaker B:I have a false victory as the midpoint.
Speaker B:What do you have as a midpoint?
Speaker B:A false victory or false defeat?
Speaker B:Because I was unsure about this.
Speaker B:I was weak on this.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:I went back and forth.
Speaker D:I have a false defeat because they can't go to perdition.
Speaker D:Because he realizes that that's.
Speaker B:That's better than what I have.
Speaker D:That McGuire knows where they're going.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's better than what I have a false victory.
Speaker B:The robberies are working, which.
Speaker B:I wrote that down.
Speaker B:I'm like, that's weak.
Speaker B:If that's the false victory, that's weak.
Speaker B:And nothing else has been weak.
Speaker B:So I was unsure about that.
Speaker B:I like yours better.
Speaker B:All right, bad guys close in.
Speaker B:Maybe I was comfortable with this.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:The mob is wise and takes out the money.
Speaker B:When he goes to the bank one time, the money's already gone.
Speaker B:Maguire gets marked and leaves his mark.
Speaker B:So McGuire gets shot in the face, but he is also able to.
Speaker B:To shoot Sullivan, who will later become ill.
Speaker B:Because of that, the mob on the wise takes the money out.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Authorization of the accountant.
Speaker B:A visit to the accountant.
Speaker B:McGuire sees a honk.
Speaker B:Unheard Mike, the better shot.
Speaker B:So this.
Speaker B:This I have is sort of the bad guy.
Speaker B:Sullivan's shooting at him.
Speaker B:Now the money's gone.
Speaker B:He gets.
Speaker B:Sullivan gets shot.
Speaker B:Which will later result in.
Speaker B:In almost him dying with a fever, I guess.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Because McGuire had figured out that he was okay.
Speaker D:He's still in the money.
Speaker D:Event.
Speaker D:If we cut the money off, he'll.
Speaker D:Sullivan's smart enough to go see the accountant because he's.
Speaker D:He's got the whore in the bed or whatever.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:So he's.
Speaker D:He's been there a while.
Speaker D:Like, I got the impression he'd been there a while.
Speaker D:He was just waiting for him.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Because he's a man of particular tastes.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker C:He wants his egg hard boiled and runny at the same time.
Speaker C:So he's going to be at a specific type of hotel.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:So we know where to look for him.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker C:And it was all a big setup.
Speaker B:All right?
Speaker B:So my false victory midpoint is very weak.
Speaker B:So I had to go with a false defeat.
Speaker B:All is lost.
Speaker B:Which false defeat?
Speaker B:Mike is in a fever and having to recover, you know, in hiding out, which I'm not thrilled about either.
Speaker B:What was your all is lost?
Speaker B:As a false victory.
Speaker D:You said, yeah, it's gonna be a victory if the other one's a defeat.
Speaker D:What did I write?
Speaker D:I wrote building a relationship, but that's not good.
Speaker D:So.
Speaker D:Oh, I got.
Speaker D:I got lost too.
Speaker D:Because I was thinking, it's so late, though.
Speaker D:Like, if.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:After.
Speaker D:If they take out.
Speaker D:And it was like, literally house.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Then it's too.
Speaker D:It's too late.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Because that's, you know, because they're breaking the threes.
Speaker D:Got to be him going after Rooney and.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:My dark night of the soul.
Speaker B:Michael feels like Mike loved Peter more.
Speaker B:Was different.
Speaker B:You were more like me.
Speaker B:And I didn't want to.
Speaker B:I didn't want you to be.
Speaker B:And I didn't know.
Speaker D:I guess when they're at the house with the older couple, right.
Speaker D:And they say, you know, like, you're talking about she, you know, he dotes on you, like all that stuff.
Speaker D:Because that's when they start to.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But that didn't seem like a dark night of the soul to me.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Be honest with you.
Speaker B:So that.
Speaker B:That some of that was weak to me or else I wasn't getting it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:See.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:I got blurry on the beach too, as far as.
Speaker C:Well, he.
Speaker C:He gets the reveal that Connor's been stealing the money.
Speaker C:He gets all the paper.
Speaker B:To me, that was like the dick.
Speaker D:It could be a false victory.
Speaker D:Yeah, that's a good.
Speaker D:That's good, James.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Because he.
Speaker D:Because he thinks, oh, this will do it.
Speaker D:This will get him.
Speaker D:This will convince the old man to give me Connor.
Speaker D:And then he goes to him, you know, feeling good about it.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Even risk.
Speaker D:And then it doesn't work.
Speaker D:He's like, I know.
Speaker D:What the hell.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's good.
Speaker B:I think that.
Speaker B:I think that's probably the way to go.
Speaker B:Break into three.
Speaker D:Because at that point he.
Speaker D:Roy.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker D:Dig down.
Speaker D:Roy's like, well, I gotta go kill him, then.
Speaker D:I gotta kill him.
Speaker D:He knew the whole time, didn't do anything.
Speaker D:Oh, I gotta kill him too.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:Because he was just trying to get to Connor the whole time.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:At that point, he changed I want Rooney.
Speaker B:And he thinks that that will give him Connor, right, though.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then finds out he has the.
Speaker D:Evidence that Connor has been stealing from you.
Speaker B:He's taking from you.
Speaker D:I know.
Speaker D:If Ronnie knew.
Speaker D:If John knew the whole time.
Speaker D:Well, he's got to go to.
Speaker C:And then Rudy was like, he signed off on the.
Speaker C:His killing and he's like, he's picking Connor, his son, over me.
Speaker C:Over me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:So that would be the false defeat.
Speaker C:Suppose.
Speaker B:Which is what?
Speaker B:Sure, but it's also what Michael was doing.
Speaker B:He's picking his family over.
Speaker B:Yeah, the boss.
Speaker B:And certainly about being murdered.
Speaker B:His family being murdered.
Speaker B:But, but Rooney is picking his son over essentially the, the, the business.
Speaker B:The business.
Speaker B:Because he knows he's been stealing Right now it's, it's a case of degree.
Speaker B:Certainly a loss of some money is not the same as a loss of a family that you would pick your family.
Speaker D:Owner's not innocent.
Speaker D:Where the wife and theater were.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So breaking the three, Mike discovers Connor's thief.
Speaker B:Come on, we're leaving.
Speaker B:That's where I have.
Speaker B:Come on, we're leaving.
Speaker B:To go into the third act.
Speaker B:Goes to meet Rooney.
Speaker B:We're just talking about that.
Speaker B:This is my finale.
Speaker B:The break into three finale.
Speaker B:Rooney knows Connor was stealing from him, tells Mike to leave before it's too late.
Speaker B:I will mourn the son I lost.
Speaker B:Sons are put on this earth, trouble their fathers.
Speaker B:He didn't say that.
Speaker B:But yeah, I will mourn the son I lost.
Speaker B:Being a youth again.
Speaker B:Trying to sort of end the bloodshed here.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:It could also be a Hightower surprise.
Speaker D:No, if you're breaking the threes, him going to talk to Rooney with the evidence and then the fact that Rooney knew the whole time, that's.
Speaker D:Oh, now my, my plan is.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, that's very good because I didn't do, I didn't do a, a five pointer on this.
Speaker D:I didn't either.
Speaker D:I just thought about just knowing.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, that's good.
Speaker B:Mike does not leave.
Speaker B:What are you, what are you gonna do?
Speaker B:Just one, just one last thing and then it's done.
Speaker D:Yeah, I like the mirror image of that too because originally he's, you know, he's getting undressed from work, putting the gun down and all, you know, dinner's ready.
Speaker D:Thank you.
Speaker D:Yeah, right.
Speaker D:Didn't even look at him here.
Speaker D:Like he's talking about go killing some people and he's putting the gun together and he actually turns and they have a conversation.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:He's looking at him.
Speaker D:He's engaged.
Speaker D:The.
Speaker B:Yeah, yes, yes.
Speaker D:He's not, I guess, hiding anymore about what he does.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:Which I mean, obviously he can at this point, but yeah.
Speaker D:Showing their relationship is different.
Speaker B:Well, he very much.
Speaker B:Where.
Speaker B:Whereas before, when Peter would ask, what do you do?
Speaker B:You know, his mother shut that down quick.
Speaker B:Michael Sullivan, the father goes to the kid and said, you know, I got to do something.
Speaker B:Will you help me rob banks?
Speaker B:You know Will you help me in this life that I tried to shield you from?
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:I thought about that earlier, too, when you said we were talking about the.
Speaker D:Where Neddy tells him you won't make it if you go out that door.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Because you'll be alone.
Speaker D:I think they under, you know, underestimated the kid.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:He wasn't alone.
Speaker D:He had his son with him.
Speaker B:Right, right, right.
Speaker B:That's good.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:What now at this point, McGuire had sort of fallen out of the story, and I begin to feel suspicious because it's been a long time since I've seen it.
Speaker B:I'm like, okay.
Speaker B:That we just don't need him anymore.
Speaker B:Almost felt like 13th Warrior kind of thing.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:But it.
Speaker D:They didn't show the.
Speaker D:We knew he's still alive, but you just saw the blood on his hands.
Speaker D:You didn't know the extent of his injuries.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:How bad was it?
Speaker B:I expected him to see, like, missing an eye, but.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Anyway.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:What a Maguire.
Speaker B:I just put what a Maguire.
Speaker B:But that's answered later.
Speaker B:So he leaves a note for Michael, does the one last thing.
Speaker B:Bullets and bad guys fall like rain.
Speaker B:I wrote, so the rain is falling, and so the bullets and so are the bad guys.
Speaker B:He just.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:I love the way that scene was shot.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker D:Like, just with the music.
Speaker D:The only time you hear the gun firing is when he kills Rooney.
Speaker D:The rest of it's all music.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And he.
Speaker B:He comes out of that darkness walking.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, I thought to bring it with me.
Speaker D:I drew.
Speaker D:I drew that.
Speaker D:Um.
Speaker D:Yeah, like, after I saw this movie years ago and I totally.
Speaker B:To me, that's iconic.
Speaker B:That is like.
Speaker D:It's.
Speaker D:It's same colors as green.
Speaker D:It's him in the rain or whatever with his hat and you can't see his face very well.
Speaker B:But no, no, that was menacing.
Speaker B:That was because.
Speaker B:Because he is.
Speaker D:This is not fucking Woody.
Speaker D:This is not.
Speaker B:No, this guy, like.
Speaker B:Like, he's coming out of the dark.
Speaker B:This is a guy who.
Speaker B:Who knows he ain't going to heaven now.
Speaker B:Maybe he will because of redemption and all that, but he very much has to embrace all that darkness.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:About.
Speaker B:Especially about what he's going to do.
Speaker B:Like, you could see both of them.
Speaker B:Both these men are about to cry.
Speaker B:One it being having the relationship broken, the other having to kill this guy who very much thought of as his father.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:I thought it was.
Speaker D:It was good.
Speaker C:You know, it had very William money Unforgiven.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's true.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Like, okay, you called down the Thunder.
Speaker B:We all got it coming.
Speaker B:I'm glad it's you.
Speaker B:And then this.
Speaker B:I don't know necessarily what to make of this, except a sense of feeling that I have.
Speaker B:I have because we looked up.
Speaker B:Sherry asked me what the word perdition meant, so she looked it up.
Speaker B:And it means the destruction of your soul in judgment.
Speaker B:And after he kills all these people, he looks up and all.
Speaker B:Everybody's watching, right.
Speaker B:Just seeing what he has done, you know, so there's very much this sense of, you know, you just destroyed your soul.
Speaker B:And the witnesses of the unit of heaven.
Speaker D:Yeah, I thought about the.
Speaker D:And there's some people that say there's no good in him at all.
Speaker D:Like, it's those people, right?
Speaker D:They don't know the story.
Speaker D:They know what's going on.
Speaker D:They saw.
Speaker D:They saw seven people.
Speaker B:There's no good in this, man.
Speaker B:I'm not going to have to talk to him about it.
Speaker D:Nope.
Speaker C:The other thing that.
Speaker C:That caught me so I looked on the.
Speaker C:The Tommy gun.
Speaker C:He was using a Tommy gun.
Speaker C:The drum.
Speaker C:Those shoot.45 caliber, sir.
Speaker B:They do.
Speaker C:Those are big old bullets, sir.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Sherry asked me about that.
Speaker B:So the gun itself weighs probably 20 pounds or more.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:This is a weight you're lugging around.
Speaker B:The kick on that has got to be amazing.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And I've heard it, and I've never been shot, but I've heard it described.
Speaker B:Like, you get shot by a.45, it's like being slammed in the chest with a cinder block.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:You are on your ass.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker C:If you have a bulletproof vest on.
Speaker C:Yeah, of course.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Otherwise cinder blocks going through you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:So those Tommy guns are no draw.45 calibers at high velocity, coming at you, coming at you.
Speaker B:Hundreds that a minute.
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker C:I was.
Speaker C:I was also thinking like.
Speaker C:And they never show him sitting down and loading that fucking drum one at a time.
Speaker C:They had to take 20 minutes.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:Thumb bullet.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:You have to really be intent on using because you're gonna spend a minute loading that thing and carrying it.
Speaker D:He tells Michael to go back and go to bed.
Speaker D:Half hour later, he comes back in there, he's still loading.
Speaker C:Click.
Speaker D:You were leaving, dad.
Speaker B:Yeah, just a minute.
Speaker B:Just a minute.
Speaker B:No, I.
Speaker B:I can't.
Speaker B:I guarantee that's gonna be heavy.
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker D:That's how he could lift that.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:He spent half the time loading that gun.
Speaker D:Even walked different to me.
Speaker D:Like it just in the coat and all that.
Speaker D:Like when he's walking out of the rain and all the scenes.
Speaker D:I think he wore that coat almost every scene.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:When he's in the hallway just looking at him like that doesn't look like Tom Hanks.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker D:Looks like this badass dude that you don't want to with, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I call that the noir uniform.
Speaker B:It's that the fedora, the trench coat.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:The tie and the suit.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I'm glad it was you.
Speaker B:Connor's room has been divulged.
Speaker B:I want your assurance that after it's over, rub a dub dub a dead man in the tub.
Speaker B:So I.
Speaker B:So the knit.
Speaker B:Knit.
Speaker B:Nick's knits, whatever's.
Speaker B:Daddy nitty.
Speaker B:Who is he talking to on the phone?
Speaker B:I want your assurance that after that it's done.
Speaker D:Sullivan.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's what I'm.
Speaker B:That's what I was thinking.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker D:One of the.
Speaker D:The whole time and they had to, you know, go and be difficult and so.
Speaker D:Got all this shit.
Speaker D:But yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:Which to your point, you said earlier like they were going to kill him anyways once Rooney was dead.
Speaker D:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:What's the hurt in letting Sullivan get.
Speaker B:You know, which now that you mentioned it, that's.
Speaker B:That really plays in their favor.
Speaker B:I get Michael Sullivan and I get this dipshit who doesn't know his dick from his thumb out of the way and probably Rooney, who I.
Speaker B:Yeah, we like him, but we could fill just as Rooney.
Speaker B:Thought some were disposable.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Rooney's on his way out like literally a year from now.
Speaker C:He's old.
Speaker C:Old man.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So in terms of interest and.
Speaker B:And business, Michael really is their guy.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:But you know, I liked how the.
Speaker D:The scene where he goes to kill Connor.
Speaker D:Like it.
Speaker D:The way it tracks him to the hotel.
Speaker D:You see all the people that he would have had to fight through to get there because they're all just stepping aside and letting you know that I really like that.
Speaker B:Word is yeah.
Speaker D:Because.
Speaker D:Yeah, I mean he's probably.
Speaker D:If he had to fight us with three, he's probably not making it right.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker D:Yeah, I mean I think give it a good go.
Speaker D:But I'm not sure he would have made it.
Speaker B:It wouldn't have been on the level.
Speaker B:John Wick, but it would have been cool to have a.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:A big shootout.
Speaker B:But it would.
Speaker D:But it's really cool the way they did it too where they're all stepping aside.
Speaker B:It's not.
Speaker D:This was a gun out in the hallway.
Speaker D:It's cool.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's way more subdued than Wick.
Speaker B:This is straight noir, dark reign.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:It's boiling tension as opposed to.
Speaker C:Well, I'm sure a lot of those guys had dealings with Connor and we're like, this guy's a frickin idiot.
Speaker C:Oh, everybody knew we respect and love Sullivan.
Speaker C:Oh, Sullivan's going to get Connor.
Speaker C:And not my business.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:But also the same one.
Speaker D:Like they stepped aside for Sullivan because he is their John Wick.
Speaker D:Like they didn't want to mess with him.
Speaker C:Right, exactly.
Speaker D:I've heard of him.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think that even Nitty was sympathetic.
Speaker B:Everybody had to be sympathetic.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Because there's almost, you know, in these mob movies it's the unwritten rule you don't go at families and this kind of thing.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Anyway, they get to Sarah's.
Speaker B:Sarah is cleaned out.
Speaker B:Now did she move or was she killed?
Speaker B:All furniture's gone.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Is that what I get?
Speaker D:I certainly killed her.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Which that should have been his first sign.
Speaker D:Like the room's all empty and staged for something.
Speaker B:Well, I guess it was staged for him to take the photo acquire.
Speaker D:That's what I'm saying.
Speaker D:But yeah.
Speaker B:But I didn't even put that together.
Speaker D:Rooney should have or not really.
Speaker D:Sullivan should have been like, what's going on here?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Or okay.
Speaker A:I don't know why I thought this was like their vacation home is Sarah's house.
Speaker A:It's not her, it's her full time.
Speaker B:I guess so.
Speaker B:Because they've gone to visit her before.
Speaker D:They had gone there for a vacation.
Speaker D:I always thought it was her regular house, but.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Sarah's regular house.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Oh, when he comes in and stuff.
Speaker D:Sarah.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:And yes, yes, yes.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:But he had told her he was coming, so.
Speaker A:And she said, well, I'll be there.
Speaker A:And yeah, two days, whatever.
Speaker A:42 days.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:They never did explain what happened to her.
Speaker B:We have to assume that she's nowhere around.
Speaker B:But she's gone.
Speaker D:But he didn't kill the dog.
Speaker A:Thank goodness.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:So there's some good in him is what you're saying, McGuire.
Speaker D:Yeah, that or he.
Speaker D:That or he sold John Wick.
Speaker D:You know, I was like, nope.
Speaker B:Yeah, we're not doing that.
Speaker B:Sarah cleaned out Mike to say saves his son from being like him.
Speaker B:I couldn't do it.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Which is good.
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker A:Yeah, I like that because I actually.
Speaker D:Said in the fields.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I actually said in the end.
Speaker A:Oh, good.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:The son will not final image.
Speaker B:The son will not be like his father and was no trouble to him.
Speaker B:Loyalty to family that supplants Work.
Speaker B:So if Michael Sullivan's opening image is this aloof, distant father at the end, he has made the ultimate sacrifice as a father.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I think those are good opening closing images.
Speaker B:I think that worked.
Speaker B:And if my theme is the sun will not be like as far other son will not trouble his father.
Speaker B:If the son was able to kill Maguire, I think Tom Hanks would have had concerns that it's too late.
Speaker B:Michael is already like me.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I think that works.
Speaker D:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker D:No, that's the importance of him not killing him.
Speaker B:He can almost die in peace knowing, in fact he does.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:And then I'm sorry.
Speaker B:I'm sorry for everything that I basically wasted time.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:I don't now because my time's up.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:That's good stuff.
Speaker C:Well, in the.
Speaker C:In the book or the graphic novel or whatever, the kid does kill people and is a part of the whole thing.
Speaker C:And he ends up being a priest.
Speaker B:Well, he does talk about Bible.
Speaker B:I like the Bible stories.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:He ends up being a priest later on his repentance.
Speaker C:But I think the movie hits it better.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Because he never has becomes that.
Speaker C:Yeah, he never becomes it.
Speaker C:He is saved.
Speaker C:He could have become it, but he is safe now.
Speaker B:I don't know what to make of this.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:Because they.
Speaker B:When they leave the old cup.
Speaker B:Not the old couple, older couple's house, they give him the money, and when the kid returns, they're putting a fresh coat of paint on that house, which you would naturally think they would do.
Speaker B:Make improvements.
Speaker C:It needed it.
Speaker B:It sure did need it.
Speaker C:Some screen doors.
Speaker B:But let's.
Speaker B:Let's assume that that is, you know, a fresh start or.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Fresh coke.
Speaker B:You know, you're taking the old and the ragged.
Speaker B:And now it's going to be new, you know, new start, new, new image, new, you know, whatever.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:So it's white, pure.
Speaker D:It's clean.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Good stuff.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Those are the beats.
Speaker B:I thought this movie worked well, I think.
Speaker B:Except for.
Speaker B:And I think we all had a little trouble with the bad guys.
Speaker B:All is lost in Dark Knight because there was so much darkness.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:I feel like they're in there.
Speaker D:Maybe we just.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Weren't able to nail them down.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Or they weren't.
Speaker D:As I think you're.
Speaker D:You're breaking two and breaking the three.
Speaker D:Were.
Speaker D:Were.
Speaker D:Were better than mine.
Speaker D:And I think they were.
Speaker D:They're close.
Speaker D:If that's not them.
Speaker B:Yeah, sure.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:Yeah, but I think you're.
Speaker B:I didn't get the midpoint and all is lost.
Speaker B:I think yours was better, so.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Anyway.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Anything else before we get into pass.
Speaker B:Consider.
Speaker B:Any other thoughts?
Speaker B:Anything?
Speaker B:Nope.
Speaker B:Okay, let's do past consider.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Chris, this is your movie, so let's hear it.
Speaker D:Yeah, it's gonna be a recommend for me.
Speaker D:I just.
Speaker D:Yeah, I think it's really good.
Speaker D:Quality movie.
Speaker D:Obviously, if you're a fan of Tom Hanks, even though he's not traditional Tom Hanks, it's, you know, it's well acted, well written.
Speaker D:I like, you know, I guess monster movies is the movies.
Speaker D:And.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Liam Neeson's in a movie called Marlo, and I want to see that.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Where he plays Philip Marlowe and.
Speaker D:Yeah, that's pretty cool.
Speaker B:I haven't seen it yet.
Speaker D:I need it, but, yeah, the idea is cool.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Very cool.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And I guess, like I said earlier, I wish I'd brought it the.
Speaker D:Yeah, I guess it affected me enough where I, you know, drew a picture from it.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:No, no, very good image.
Speaker B:Lots of good imagery in this movie, you know.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Cinematography was amazing.
Speaker D:Top notch.
Speaker B:Yeah, Very cool.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:For me, total recommend.
Speaker B:Tom Hanks is one of those consummate actors.
Speaker B:Transformative.
Speaker B:Like, he transforms into the character and you lose sight of who even the real person is, you know?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Which.
Speaker B:Which is, to me, a mark, if I can forget or think, wow, this is Tom Hanks, you know.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Because he plays just goofballs.
Speaker B:And then to be able to play this as well, like, if you think the same guy who did the burbs did this, it's.
Speaker B:It's absolutely amazing to me.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:I think that's part of why DaVinci Code.
Speaker D:I didn't.
Speaker D:I didn't like those that much.
Speaker D:Like, he just.
Speaker D:I just didn't.
Speaker D:I don't know.
Speaker B:Just.
Speaker D:I just didn't buy him as the character he's supposed to be.
Speaker D:Yeah, that's one of the rare.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I think with Da Vinci Code and the other one where it was angels and demons.
Speaker D:That's it.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I think.
Speaker C:And if you haven't read the book and you just saw the movie, you're like, whoa, they're just throwing at you way too fast.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:In those movies.
Speaker C:But the book is a bit spaced out, but.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:The delivery.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Maybe the movie itself is just not.
Speaker C:Like, damn, it's flying by.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Total.
Speaker D:What's going on.
Speaker B:Total recommend for me.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Love noir.
Speaker B:Love Tom Hanks.
Speaker D:Go ahead and Total recommend from Sherry.
Speaker B:Sherry, we got three we haven't got.
Speaker C:I haven't got.
Speaker B:Yeah, never mind.
Speaker B:Go ahead.
Speaker A:Well, don't hit me.
Speaker D:And a pass.
Speaker A:No, it's not a pass.
Speaker A:Is it considered.
Speaker A:And this is what I'm saying.
Speaker A:Don't hit me.
Speaker B:You know I'm gonna delete.
Speaker B:Don't hit me.
Speaker B:I can't have you, my wife, saying, don't hit me.
Speaker A:Don't throw things at me.
Speaker B:Okay, that's.
Speaker A:That better?
Speaker B:So much better.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:For the record, I've never.
Speaker A:Don't boom me.
Speaker A:Is that better?
Speaker A:Okay, don't boo me, all right.
Speaker A:Or tell me, no, you're wrong.
Speaker C:She makes it sound like that's all you do.
Speaker B:That's what I'm saying.
Speaker B:Abuser.
Speaker B:I'm not wearing a white tank top.
Speaker A:I'm talking to all of you.
Speaker C:Between times of you telling me quit that and hitting me.
Speaker A:No, no, I'm talking to all of y'all.
Speaker A:Don't boo me.
Speaker C:Boo.
Speaker A:Don't throw things at me.
Speaker B:However, don't call 911 and order a pizza.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker D:I hear your cries for help, Sherry.
Speaker C:Blink twice.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:I mean, I.
Speaker A:I like Tom Hanks and I like him in the burbs.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker A:And Forrest Gump is amazing.
Speaker B:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But there's movies that I will not watch of.
Speaker A:Of his.
Speaker A:Yeah, I.
Speaker A:I don't care about seeing that new movie with him and Robin Wright.
Speaker A:I don't remember what.
Speaker B:Here.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:What is that about?
Speaker D:Right here is where we want to be.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:They.
Speaker A:They show them through their whole life, I guess.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker D:Apparently the camera never moves, like, and it stays in this one spot.
Speaker C:And it's.
Speaker C:Through the years.
Speaker D:Yeah, through the years.
Speaker D:But it has, like, prehistoric shit in there all the way up to, like, them building this house and then the family and then Tom Hanks and Robin.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:I mean, the concept.
Speaker D:They grow old and like, I feel like I like the concept, but I'm.
Speaker B:Like, it also sounds tedious.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Like, can that hold for two hours?
Speaker D:Like, I want to see it just a, you know, maybe a 20 minute thing in a bail.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker D:Yeah, but I'm with you.
Speaker C:It's not like the way minutes in.
Speaker C:You're still in a million bc.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:In the dinosaur, you know, Anyway, he's.
Speaker A:Acting in that movie.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I do want to see him in the.
Speaker A:What is the.
Speaker A:The neighborhood.
Speaker A:Oh, God.
Speaker A:What is the.
Speaker A:What is the name of that children's show?
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The Pastor did the Mr.
Speaker A:Roberts.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I would like to see that.
Speaker B:But I always thought he was a creeper.
Speaker B:I know he probably wasn't.
Speaker A:He's a.
Speaker A:He was a pastor.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:But, no, he's not a creeper.
Speaker A:He's.
Speaker B:I was never a fan of Mr.
Speaker A:Rogers, so don't talk yellow.
Speaker B:No, I know.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker D:Something just didn't.
Speaker D:It didn't seem right to me.
Speaker B:To me.
Speaker B:But that's just me.
Speaker B:Could be my reading into it.
Speaker C:Y'all are broken.
Speaker C:People.
Speaker B:Broken.
Speaker A:I probably would not have watched this movie if I hadn't had to watch the movie.
Speaker A:I enjoyed it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Don't get me wrong.
Speaker A:I enjoyed it.
Speaker A:That's why I say consider.
Speaker A:But it.
Speaker A:I am not into mobster kind of.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:When he.
Speaker A:When the wife and child, I was like, okay, this is just wrong.
Speaker B:So I'm fine with that.
Speaker B:But if you killed the dog, I'd have been pissed.
Speaker A:Oh, no.
Speaker A:Oh, no.
Speaker A:I was so upset.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:When.
Speaker A:I mean, I didn't sit there and ball.
Speaker B:That's a total senseless act right there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Because I was like, you idiot.
Speaker A:But, I mean, that's what I wanted to say.
Speaker B:And he is.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But see, that's.
Speaker B:That's an action scene.
Speaker B:That builds character.
Speaker B:This guy is a up.
Speaker B:And that's him effing up.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker A:Because I guess all that.
Speaker A:That whole scene of.
Speaker A:I kept going, what's in the letter?
Speaker A:What's in the letter?
Speaker A:And then as soon as he read it, I didn't even think about, oh, my gosh, he's got to check at home.
Speaker A:But then when he starts picking up the phone, then I started panicking.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:Well, that means the movie was working.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:So that sounds a good movie.
Speaker D:Yeah, I know.
Speaker A:But still.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You consider if you.
Speaker A:If you know.
Speaker A:No, no, I don't recommend anytime you want to watch people being.
Speaker B:No, I understand.
Speaker B:Well, there are things that take you out of.
Speaker B:Like, they're.
Speaker B:Like I said, there are movies I watched one time and I will not watch again because of one scene, you know, Anyway.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, you have your lines.
Speaker A:It's the whole theme of it, I guess.
Speaker A:The gangster, but.
Speaker B:Well, yeah, but it was a good.
Speaker A:I mean, I'm glad I watched it once.
Speaker D:Like Saving Private Ryan.
Speaker D:You probably don't either have that or.
Speaker A:Won'T watch it again, but I won't watch it.
Speaker B:There's one scene, the beach scene is very, very hard to watch, which probably is very realistic, but the.
Speaker B:The scene that I can't.
Speaker B:That forbids me to watch.
Speaker B:That is the killing of the guy with the knife.
Speaker B:And the other guys in the room, coward.
Speaker B:And won't come in and save him, you know?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:To me.
Speaker A:What movie is that?
Speaker B:Even more than the Beach?
Speaker B:I could probably watch the beach scene again, but that is too personal and too.
Speaker B:That guy needs to pay, you know?
Speaker A:And it's just like that.
Speaker A:What's the movie where the.
Speaker A:The guys dancing around and he's cutting.
Speaker C:On the American Psycho dogs?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:To me, that is absolutely cool.
Speaker A:No, no, it's.
Speaker B:It's terrible.
Speaker B:But it's done with style, man.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker C:Well, they don't actually show the ear coming off in Reservoir Dogs.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You do see him without the ear.
Speaker C:But anyway, it was shot.
Speaker C:There was a shot of him pulling it off.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That might have been a little much, but he decided.
Speaker B:But that movie's just slick from top to bottom, so.
Speaker A:Well, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker A:That's not my kind of movie.
Speaker B:All right, so consider To Kill.
Speaker A:Just to be whatever.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:I said consider.
Speaker B:That's good.
Speaker D:That's fine.
Speaker C:I'm gonna go with strong.
Speaker C:Strong.
Speaker C:Consider.
Speaker C:Recommend.
Speaker C:Because I'd never seen this movie before, so I'd have to give it another shot to see if I'd really, really recommend.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker C:But, yeah, if you like noir crime.
Speaker C:Tom Hanks, Paul Newman.
Speaker C:Paul Newman was fantastic in this movie.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah, go ahead, recommend.
Speaker C:Watch it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:You probably will love it quicker than I do.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker C:But I really do like it.
Speaker B:Well, the thing about gangster noir there, even the hero is not clean.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Philip Marlowe is a noble character and never does anything bad, but he is very, like, aloof and distant and reserved and.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But noir is dark.
Speaker B:That's what it means.
Speaker B:Obviously.
Speaker D:But they're part of that world.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:You know, part of the dirty world, that they're.
Speaker D:They're not investigating it or they're henchmen or whatever.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:There's not escape from that world like there's.
Speaker B:In one of the Philip Marlowe books.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:He meets a girl that he readily.
Speaker B:Philip Marlowe readily admits, you know, I could love her.
Speaker B:I could set it.
Speaker B:She would make a great wife.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And she wants to sort of, but.
Speaker B:And she's not the femme fatale.
Speaker B:She's a good, good girl, good woman.
Speaker B:And you could see that this is a door that if Marlo stepped through, his life would be happy.
Speaker B:And he turns his back on it and remains the $50 a day plus expenses.
Speaker B:Private Dick in dirty Los Angeles, you know.
Speaker D:Nice.
Speaker B:So anyway, go ahead.
Speaker A:No, I didn't.
Speaker A:I just didn't want you to turn it up for him.
Speaker A:I remember now what movie that I was thinking about that I really, really, really like of Tom Hanks.
Speaker A:And that is that thing you do.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:That's a good one.
Speaker D:I like that one.
Speaker B:I do like that one.
Speaker B:I like the soundtrack.
Speaker B:I like the.
Speaker D:And he directed that one.
Speaker C:Two things.
Speaker C:Two things on that one.
Speaker C:Number one, my wife can't stand it.
Speaker C:Don't know why.
Speaker C:Number two, the director's cut.
Speaker C:Just stay away from it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Why?
Speaker C:It's got extra stuff in it that.
Speaker C:There's just extra stuff and it adds too much.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker C:It's different.
Speaker C:It's a different movie.
Speaker C:When the regular cut.
Speaker C:I watch that.
Speaker B:Sometimes the cuts make sense.
Speaker B:Sometimes an editor can save your ass.
Speaker D:No, I agree.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:I can't think of any examples now, but there's.
Speaker D:Yeah, well, I've seen director cuts and it's like, no, that's.
Speaker D:That's too much.
Speaker C:You didn't need that Watch that thing you do.
Speaker C:Director's cut.
Speaker C:And that's a perfect example of.
Speaker C:Yeah, the other way is better.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:The editor helped him out.
Speaker B:The editors can be the difference sometimes.
Speaker A:Anyway, I just wanted to add that.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker D:All right.
Speaker B:Anything else before we wrap it up?
Speaker C:It's good to be back.
Speaker B:A nice compact 1 hour and 20, which a lot of that was talk.
Speaker B:So we trim that down to an hour.
Speaker B:So that was much more efficient than the first one, but better movie, less time.
Speaker B:Maybe.
Speaker B:That's if it's a good movie.
Speaker B:It's solid and it doesn't take as much.
Speaker B:Maybe.
Speaker D:I think some of that was just.
Speaker D:That was the first.
Speaker D:First one we got together in a while.
Speaker D:So it was a little bit of a.
Speaker D:I don't call it bullshitting, but it's.
Speaker D:It was all good.
Speaker D:I hope people find it entertaining.
Speaker D:Hopefully.
Speaker D:Hopefully you don't cut too much of it.
Speaker B:No, no.
Speaker B:I tend to.
Speaker B:If it.
Speaker B:I try to make it like 15 or, you know, five or 10 minute extra episode back, you know, because.
Speaker B:Yeah, maybe people get in, feel like they're having a conversation with us or whatever.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker C:I do.
Speaker C:For sure.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:That is road to perdition.
Speaker B:And we are out.
Speaker C: And if it wasn't: Speaker C:Yeah, Like a lot.
Speaker C:A lot of drugs.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You're.
Speaker B:You're a child who doesn't know his thumb from his dick.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So I did freak out at that point where he's, dude, you need to.
Speaker B:Put that shotgun down because you suck Yeah.
Speaker D:I love the way that scene was shot.
Speaker B:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker B:He very much has to embrace all that darkness.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:It had very William money Unforgiven.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:That's true.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Those shoot.45 calibers.
Speaker B:Yes, sir, they do.
Speaker C:Y'all are broken people.
Speaker A:When he.
Speaker A:When the wife and child, I was like, okay, this is just wrong.
Speaker D:To me.
Speaker B:That is absolutely cool.
Speaker A:No, it's.
Speaker B:Sometimes an editor can save your ass.
Speaker D:No, I agree.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I actually said in the end.
Speaker A:Oh, good.
Speaker B:Yeah.
