Unforgiven

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[00:00:06] Chris: All of it felt like, I felt like all the exposition was very, very tight and well done.

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[00:00:15] Sherry: It's like Ricky Bobby, he's covering his bases. It's the same with Tom Cruise, you know.

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[00:00:20] James: Go ahead and say it, Phil. When she's in a loud crowd, put it in the trailer.

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[00:00:27] Sherry: like, once you start it, it's like, okay, I gotta see where this is [00:00:30] going.

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[00:00:34] Phil: That was the weakest part of that scene. Sure.

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[00:00:46] Phil: Okay. Fellowship of the Real, four friends in a movie. We are doing Unforgiven, Clint Eastwood's 1992 release.

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[00:00:56] Phil: This was my pick. Yes. We had talked about this. [00:01:00] We had referenced it. In one of the last reviews we did what were the last two we did?

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[00:01:13] Chris: the same, same guy. Are they? Yeah.

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[00:01:17] Chris: Yeah, David, David, the same guy that wrote Yeah, David Webb Peoples.

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[00:01:23] Chris: Correct.

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[00:01:38] Chris: Yeah, I'm not saying there's not other writers that came along and helped them.

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[00:01:44] Phil: Because that was completely unintentional. I thought

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[00:01:57] Chris: Right. Cause it's, you know, with the character and all. Yeah. Yeah. [00:02:00] Yeah. Oh, he did soldier. Yeah. He did soldier with Kurt Russell. That's a good one. I

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[00:02:10] Chris: He's probably, yeah.

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[00:02:16] Phil: That the same guy who wrote Blade Runner wrote this. That's remarkable. Alright, well we're going to talk about Unforgiven and we'll get into that in a second. But first we're going to do Sherry's Notables. Twelve Monkeys too. And Hero with Dustin Hoffman. [00:02:30] Twelve Monkeys I've seen. I've liked a lot of his movies then.

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[00:02:34] Chris: Leviathan. God, I love Leviathan.

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[00:02:38] Chris: With Peter Weller and whether in the submarine and the not submarine, but like they're like kind of like a best there, I think they're oil drillers or something. I haven't seen it a long time, but they're, they go down, it's like alien, but on a, you know, a underwater, but less of this more alien.

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[00:02:57] Phil: I'm still, my mind is still reeling that the same [00:03:00] guy wrote both. When I referenced. Unforgiven with reference to Blade Runner. I lose my mind. All right, but we're gonna do Sherry's Notables Quotables first. Okay. All right, let me hold on now. We gotta get your music, you know.

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[00:03:16] Notable Quotables.

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[00:03:29] Sherry: [00:03:30] You're probably not gonna like this one. Oh, no? No, because they're all Westerns. Oh, Lord. And I don't, I don't know that I've seen I don't think I've seen one of these. No, I haven't seen two of them. Okay.

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[00:03:46] Sherry: No, she

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[00:03:49] Chris: I just always assumed it was something you'd seen. So that's a, that's interesting.

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[00:04:26] Sherry: All right. Ready? Yep. You're going to pull those [00:04:30] pistols or whistle Dixie. You're going to pull those pistols.

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[00:04:35] Sherry: Yeah. If I can, I knew that. And who says it? Yeah. Yeah. Jersey Wales. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My next one. Yes. My next one. Okay. Nice. I reckon so. The outlaw of Jersey. Well, yeah, that was a good impression.

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[00:05:02] Chris: unforgiving. It's just different tone entirely.

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[00:05:14] Phil: Oh, he's, he was a rebel.

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[00:05:20] Sherry: shooting, he's shooting at the Union?

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[00:05:26] Sherry: Okay, I thought that he was supposed to be shooting at, I didn't know. I [00:05:30] haven't seen the movie, I don't know.

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[00:05:45] Sherry: The next one I know I have I don't believe i've seen it either In any way but I know the line believe me.

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[00:05:56] Chris: That's a young gun.

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[00:06:02] Chris: it's two. Okay. That was wrong.

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[00:06:13] Sherry: I

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[00:06:15] hearing

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[00:06:44] Sherry: Oh, I know this. Do you I'm sorry. I missed that line.

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[00:06:53] Phil: Is it good, bad and the ugly? Yes. Yeah. Good.

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[00:07:00] Phil: also Clint Eastwood talking to Tuco. Yeah,

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[00:07:05] Sherry: All right. Can y'all guess in the two lists? I saw what the number one quote of Western movies is.

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[00:07:14] Phil: so. Was it one of these quotes or no? Fill your

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[00:07:22] Sherry: Yes. Yeah. Really? I'm your huckleberry. Oh, man.

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[00:07:28] Phil: interesting because Tombstone has [00:07:30] not been around as long as other Westerns like. Yeah. But it is so quotable. Like there's so many lines in there. But

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[00:07:40] Phil: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's probably on the list as one of the greatest Westerns. I was

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[00:07:51] Sherry: And there were so many quotes from older movies with like John Wayne and stuff. And I'm like, I don't, I don't know. I don't [00:08:00] know those. Anyway.

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[00:08:02] Phil: There's a bunch of, there's a few good quotes in unforgiven, you know, like, you know,

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[00:08:20] James: Yes. His reaction.

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[00:08:26] Chris: Ned's not dead. Nobody killed Ned .

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[00:08:32] Chris: All right, we're jumping ahead, but

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[00:08:38] Phil: Couple of deep tracks there. Alright we are ready for Money Critics fans then?

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[00:08:53] Phil: Alright. This is interesting to me. I love this movie, but I did not know how much [00:09:00] both the critics and the fans love this movie, and I would have to go back and look at our scores for Aliens. Because these very likely may be the highest scores of any movie we've reviewed so far. The critics on TomatoBeater, over the course of his life, have given a 96 percent favorability.

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[00:09:35] James: This movie has four of like the heaviest hitter actors ever, you know, Clint Eastwood Morgan Freeman, obviously they're still going.

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[00:09:57] Sherry: when I say the English. Okay. [00:10:00] He's only in it for a little while, but he.

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[00:10:04] James: Well, right. There is

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[00:10:21] Chris: Cause it, cause what I was looking for, I was watching it was. I was like, he doesn't sound like Dumbledore very much to me. 'cause he played Dumbledore in the first two, right before he passed away. The first two. Harry potty, Mo Harry. [00:10:30] Harry Putty. Harry Potter movies. Richard Harris, yes. Oh yeah. And there's only there's a few lines that he delivers That sounds like Dumbledore to me.

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[00:10:39] James: when he is, when he is turning on, because he is talking about the very, the regalness of, you're right. Always the queen talking about the queen, queen of kebab. And then at the end he's got the cockney accent. So Yeah, like when he. I saw, I heard Dumbledore in there a few times.

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[00:10:55] Chris: the, yeah. Whatever voice he'd settled on for, for Dumbledore. Yeah. But first I [00:11:00] thought it was a, well, he was older when he did Dumbledore. That's what it is. But no, it's, you know, whatever voice he had settled on.

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[00:11:17] James: I,

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[00:11:19] Phil: Yes. I found myself saying his job has to be underappreciated here. He really, for sure, because at the beginning he's this cocky, arrogant, almost snot nose [00:11:30] you know, overconfident kid who thinks he's, you know, but at the end his angst and turmoil. So he had to do both ends of that range. And I thought he did an excellent job.

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[00:11:43] James: well, yeah, it built to a head like the whole movie. You're like, okay We know this kid's full of shit, right? And then at the end when it just bubbles over Yeah, it's the perfect antithesis to what he was the whole movie. Yes, it really resolved Emotionally.

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[00:12:07] Chris: definitely, yep.

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[00:12:15] Phil: we killed the shit outta him. Which yeah, he obviously comes to regret, so. Right. We'll talk about that. But I would, again, I was, I found myself watching him in particular thinking, man, he's, he's doing a good job anyway.

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[00:12:50] Phil: Either way, this is probably either the first or second highest movie rating. on both sides of the fence that we have reviewed, which kind of surprised me.

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[00:13:03] Phil: Yeah. 96 and 93, which means there's always going to be outliers, but that makes it almost a perfect movie.

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[00:13:16] Chris: Yeah. The wife did not agree that it's a perfect movie at all. Sure. Yeah. She was, she said, this is the slowest, longest, boring movie ever. And I told her, I thought that was reserved for the postman. And she goes, well, that one's pretty bad too.

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[00:13:30] Chris: I said, but that one's actually three hours, baby. This one is only two hours. I

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[00:13:38] Sherry: Yeah. Yeah. I remembered the first time I watched it, I was into it. Yeah. Yeah, but I didn't remember when I watched the trailer just the other day to watch it.

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[00:13:56] Phil: yeah. Okay. Yes, I thought so. He plays the survivor.

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[00:14:02] Chris: Like, he wasn't, he Yeah, he, he's, he's himself because Yeah. Ner goes, you know, I know who you are. You were famous. And then when he realizes when Tom Petty rises that Kevin Costner's the postman, he goes, man, now you're famous.

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[00:14:17] Chris: yeah, because he's like, I was once and then, yeah.

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[00:14:21] Phil: eating his mule though. That always gets me. But anytime an animal's hurt, I, I don't like it, but post, yeah. We gotta review it at some point. Yeah. I postman, I love the postman. I, [00:14:30] I I, same. I tear up at the postman. I know. Same. Same.

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[00:14:35] Chris: Absolutely. Absolutely. Ride, postman, ride. Gets me every time.

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[00:14:55] Phil: Her fellow brothel workers post a reward for their murder, much to the displeasure of Sheriff [00:15:00] Little Bill Daggett, Gene Hackman, who doesn't allow vigilantism in his town. Two groups of gunfighters, and this is where I think this is, I don't know where they pulled this out of there, why they thought this was an accurate description.

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[00:15:28] Chris: one who's English Bob [00:15:30] leading like that makes it sound like he's leading like other people.

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[00:15:37] Sherry: there's this competition between

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[00:15:47] Chris: that person didn't see the movie. Yeah,

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[00:15:55] Phil: Anyway, the budget I found for this was 14. 4 million, [00:16:00] which is low to me, but you know, that's what, that's the number they're saying, 14, 4 million budget domestically. I found 101 million domestic, 58 million international for a total of one 59, 159 million 167, 799. So, absolutely. Yeah.

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[00:16:25] Chris: We've talked before, I think, about Eastwood being very efficient. Yes. And his movie making always [00:16:30] coming in under schedule, under budget. One or two takes. So, it's probably the same with, like, Like raises like you're not raised but an actor like negotiating. Yeah, like you probably want to ask for more money from Eastwood Cuz it was just gonna tell you, you know, are you gonna take more money for everybody else?

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[00:16:49] Phil: Yeah with a what's the name? I think we should do another take Yeah, so you waste everybody else Damon, right? Yeah, you want

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[00:17:01] Chris: It's okay. That's enough of that

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[00:17:20] Phil: he doesn't say action.

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[00:17:26] Chris: That's enough of that. That's enough of that.

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[00:17:50] Phil: We'll see if we feel that way And we talked about this in the Goonies review, but this is a Golden Fleece, they go on a road trip to [00:18:00] claim a prize and we had rightly stated and James pointed out that it could have been, well, he was talking about the Goonies being a rite of passage, but for, for the Schofield kid, his arc is certainly a rite of passage.

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[00:18:36] Phil: I don't think we even watched a laser disc at that point.

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[00:18:52] James: Yeah. I didn't, I didn't see it in theaters.

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[00:18:58] [00:19:00] Yeah.

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[00:19:02] Chris: Cause this was before tombstone. Yeah. Cause it was 93. Right. Okay. Yeah. And then I think Wyatt Earp is 94. So it kind of had like a little run, like kind of kickstarted a, you know, a resurgence in Westerns for a bit.

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[00:19:28] James: It's hard to remember. Yeah. It just seems [00:19:30] like one of those things. It's always been around.

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[00:19:34] Phil: I can definitely tell you. I saw that in the theater. Cause my, I was so blown away by that movie. I like, it was, that, that was a long movie, like two and a half hours or something, but I can remember sitting in the theater and it felt like five minutes. I, I can remember walking out thinking, man, that was.

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[00:19:54] Chris: This, you know, that's up there with the big Lebowski to you. Yeah. Oh, yeah Like top five or something

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[00:20:05] James: Yeah, that is a great movie.

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[00:20:22] Phil: Absolutely All right. Anything else for how

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[00:20:27] Chris: All right

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[00:20:31] James: I think there was, I remember it was a double,

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[00:20:44] Phil: Boy. Oh boy.

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[00:21:01] Sherry: Okay. I have something I want to say first. Go ahead. Go ahead and say it. Okay. I don't know if some people haven't listened to our podcast. No, that we talk about everything. So spoiler alert, we will discuss everything in this movie. So if you haven't seen it, you may want to watch it. No, absolutely. Yeah.

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[00:21:22] Chris: that's a good call out because

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[00:21:29] James: [00:21:30] 32 years old.

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[00:21:33] Phil: What was the movie I just saw and it was it's like 40 years old or something. I can't remember. It was, I

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[00:21:44] Phil: Yeah.

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[00:21:50] Phil: Like like past times is, is like 35 or something. I can't remember. It's just some outrageous number. I can't remember. These movies are getting,

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[00:22:01] Chris: I don't get, yeah, it's

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[00:22:24] James: yeah, and you don't know, you don't recognize anything.

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[00:22:30] Phil: Yeah, like the Grammy, you know, back in the day. I mean, I'd watch the Grammys and be like, Oh, I have his album. I have, you know, I couldn't tell you three bands, three bands. Now that you couldn't even

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[00:22:45] Phil: how do you spell that?

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[00:22:48] James: So, yeah, I mean, It's all noise these days turn it down get off my yard

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[00:22:56] Chris: yeah, I listened to a Jack FM a lot one [00:23:00] hundred point three. Yeah, we did and Stacy was Right with me. I think was yesterday or something and she was like, oh my god.

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[00:23:20] Sherry: yeah, I go back and forth for, and three of them play nothing, but either, you know, classic rock or, you know, seventies, eighties.

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[00:23:47] Sherry: And nobody plays Nickelback. So I'm lost. Again, Nickelback. You worked it into the last one and here we are again. Welcome to the Nickelback Podcast. Oh my god, this is not the

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[00:24:06] Phil: Got it. You know what Chad said? Number one band. Well, when I, like, when I do listen to music in the car, I plug my phone in and tell Amazon to play I say, I always say, just play the station 70's Rock. And that was, some of that music is 50 years old now. Yeah. Okay? Yeah. I'm listening to music made 50 years ago.

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[00:24:26] Sherry: guess what? You're over.

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[00:24:32] Sherry: years ago. Guess what? You got that in your age. You're over 50. I

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[00:24:52] Phil: Yes. Right. This is what I'm talking about. .

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[00:25:10] James: I remember when the oldie station was 60s.

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[00:25:13] Chris: right, right, right for sure Yeah, like the stuff that's all these now or they played or that it's a jingle on the latest commercial or it's fucking elevator music You're like, hey, I like that. Yeah, you can't find or

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[00:25:30] Phil: Radio is dead my opinion.

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[00:25:54] Phil: And, and I'm not like that anymore. References to his past. So. Basically, we're, [00:26:00] some of us older than others, but four old gunslingers in here thinking about the old days, I guess, whatever. I did the beats. That was good,

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[00:26:10] Sherry: I did the beats right already?

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[00:26:13] Sherry: The music? Okay. Right? No, I think so. I interrupted you when you first started.

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[00:26:20] Sherry: we did it. Oh my God. She

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[00:26:30] Chris: Cat porn you always say. Yeah, that's what it sounds like. It's It's wonderful.

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[00:26:50] Phil: William Money digging his wife's grave. She died of smallpox. The year was 1878 that she died. His mother in law was less than thrilled that her daughter [00:27:00] married money. Money is an outlaw. Skills include theft and murder. She expected her daughter to die at money's hands and not disease, so smallpox was a big surprise to her.

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[00:27:27] James: Yes Totally agree.

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[00:27:44] Phil: This guy is so mad Delilah is the, I'm going to call them soil doves here, that's an actual term for them back in the day rather than whores and prostitutes, you know, but these are a nicer way of saying what they are, the soil doves, [00:28:00] Delilah laughed at his teensy little pecker. Mm hmm. Right.

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[00:28:05] Chris: Yes. And a giggle.

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[00:28:23] Phil: Alice, a soiled dove, is less than thrilled about this miscarriage of justice. Well, first he's gonna whip him. And that's not enough [00:28:30] for her, right? That's all they get

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[00:28:37] Chris: A whippin ain't no small thing

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[00:28:41] Phil: And then he says, well, I decided to find him instead. But she gets attacked and, and Skinny gets seven ponies. Right. And, and when that is handed down, there's the thunder rolls.

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[00:28:54] Chris: No one's going to want to have sex with her now. Yeah. I got a contract and yeah. Property. Yes. No, they

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[00:29:02] Phil: We'll get into what I did. I could not nail down a theme stated, but I think there are some thematic elements that recur throughout this movie. One of them is the very idea that these women are property, okay?

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[00:29:46] Chris: Yeah, and that I didn't notice that at all I mean like I remember a thunder being in the movie, but didn't I guess pay attention to win it?

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[00:30:16] Phil: Is the question he asked Alice and the doves are regarded as no more than property one dove equal to about seven ponies as Little Bill tells Alice to go tend to Lila This is what I'm talking about She turns and Thunder rolls again marking the [00:30:30] dark deed that has just been visited upon the doves You Is what I'm saying.

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[00:30:43] Yeah.

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[00:30:49] Chris: But you know, it, it. It was raining in this scene too, right? But it didn't have to be right necessarily. So I wonder on the thunder thing, if that was an Eastwood thing or if that was written in the script that way, [00:31:00] you know, be, I mean, I don't know that we'll ever know, but it's just,

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[00:31:09] Chris: right?

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[00:31:14] James: I, I, I, yeah, I don't know. I would imagine it had to be the writer because of the leaking roof later. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like all the symmetry of I think there's a storm coming. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Okay.

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[00:31:28] Chris: All the points. Yeah, because those are definitely in the [00:31:30] scripts. Yeah. Yes.

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[00:31:40] Phil: Maybe we ain't nothing but whores, but by God, we ain't horses.

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[00:31:50] Phil: Yes. So there is some recognition even on their part that they are in a place that is not regarded, but we're not animals. We're [00:32:00] not, you know pull their money.

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[00:32:20] Phil: And given skinny extra. Right. The one that gave 85 I don't think we ever got her name and the one that questions why they are getting so riled up [00:32:30] And gave 112 and then that ain't near enough for what we want. Not yet. So they are going to be working overtime apparently to get what apparently is a thousand dollars later on.

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[00:32:43] James: math was right, I think they were getting roughly a dollar, a throw. That's a lot. That's 250 or 200 per girl or five, six girls or whatever.

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[00:33:00] Chris: Yeah, so maybe they're just like 25 cents or yeah, you know That's a

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[00:33:05] James: Like there's only so much money in big whiskey and a lot of it's flowing through. Oh, yeah A

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[00:33:13] James: all the Cowboys come in And so apparently maybe this was a normal thing and that's well, we saw another normal day

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[00:33:29] Phil: What are you [00:33:30] going to do? Hump them a thousand times, you know? So I don't know if they're cut is a dollar and it's, you know, but the dollar for per service seems to be the number thrown around, but I imagine

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[00:33:45] Phil: is going to have to make some money.

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[00:34:04] Chris: No, just something that occurred to me.

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[00:34:22] Chris: Cause you know, they, you kind of see throughout the movie, right? Like the audience has to figure that out, right? For themselves. They never come out and say it. They say even the [00:34:30] mother couldn't figure out why. Even the mother couldn't. Right. Yeah. But something that occurred to me is he's and again, the spoiler alerts, I guess he He's digging his wife's grave right now.

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[00:34:54] Phil: I was wondering why he will take him I think he's concerned about being ambushed at that point.[00:35:00]

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[00:35:08] Chris: Yeah, no, I agree with that. It just, it was, I don't know if there's more to it than that.

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[00:35:15] James: Like he just, he was moving on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He wanted, he wanted, in his mind he was burning it down. Yeah. Because,

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[00:35:27] Phil: Yeah. Anyway, we can talk about that, I guess.

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[00:35:36] James: the whiskey, whiskey switch. Yes. Whiskey switch. That's a band name. Damn right. That's a good one.

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[00:35:47] Sherry: Which one? The opening scene. Oh yes.

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[00:35:59] Sherry: said. Go ahead and tell [00:36:00] them what you The opening and closing scene is exactly the same. Same angle.

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[00:36:24] Sherry: They

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[00:36:31] Sherry: So, and that you see the sun. So either it's the sunrise or the sun setting. I wonder if it's the sunrise because something new's coming. It could be, but it's and then we

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[00:36:44] Chris: It's in bar, it's, so they're filming everything from the, from the north and in one shot and then filming it from the south and the other essentially. Yes. And

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[00:36:57] Sherry: Yes. Wondering if wrong side. I'm wonder it's because his [00:37:00] wife has died. The son has set on that part of his life. And then at the end he's, he stands at the grave, he's done with that and he sun setting. But then. It is flipped, and it looks like maybe the sun is rising. Yes, well, if it was from, yes,

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[00:37:21] Phil: Yeah, but the beginning and the end are the same. Yes,

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[00:37:27] Sherry: When he's not silhouetted,

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[00:37:32] Sherry: It's,

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[00:37:36] Chris: Oh, I didn't remember that shot.

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[00:37:38] Phil: the opening, the closing, and then that one before the kid shows up. Right. I didn't remember that. Nice. And, And

[: 00:37:42

[00:37:45] Phil: But both opening and closing, it's on the right. And both, at that time, like Sherry was saying, he's burying his wife, that chapter is closed.

[: 00:37:53

[00:38:16] Phil: You know, so you have three and also it's reverse going

[: 00:38:18

[00:38:24] Sherry: Yes. And so that maybe it is, it's the upside down. He's in the

[: 00:38:28

[00:38:32] Phil: And she showed me that there are three silhouetted grave. Scenes and the only one that's different is when he is about to go back into his old life.

[: 00:38:41

[00:38:41] Phil: then when he's done and is ready just to go back to being, you know, who he was that his wife made him, it's back to the way it was. But

[: 00:38:50

[00:38:54] Sherry: And I,

[: 00:38:55

[00:39:14] Phil: And I think they marked that with this reversed grave scene, you know. Cause they do it three times, twice, beginning and ending are match cuts of exact, you know, he's standing there and then, and then the time when, when the Schofield [00:39:30] kid shows up, it's reversed. And I have to believe, cause if they wanted to keep it continuity, they could have just, they could have shot both those scenes at exactly the same time on the schedule to get that sunrise or whatever.

[: 00:39:42

[00:39:54] Chris: move all this shit? Yeah, you would just get, get three shots and move on as opposed to, now let's set up over here.

[: 00:39:58

[00:39:59] Phil: This is the [00:40:00] beginning, the middle, and the end. We'll just do them all right here. But they moved everything around. So I have to believe that that's intentional as a See, I paid attention to him. Yes, you did. That was actually a big pull down because that's a ma to me that's a marker in the the transition that this character, you know, visual clue, which I love.

[: 00:40:19

[00:40:37] Phil: their names. Hmm. So they don't learn it in the movie, but in the credits they are given names.

[: 00:40:41

[00:40:46] Phil: Yes.

[: 00:40:46

[00:40:47] James: Way younger, yes. And so the kids are maybe, I figure eight or nine, eight or 10, eight or nine.

[: 00:40:53

[00:40:59] Phil: asking? Before [00:41:00] 1878. I don't know because he. There are years given to things he'd done, like he shot a marshal in 1870, and he blew up the Rock Island Railroad killing women and children in like 69, 1869.

[: 00:41:15

[00:41:17] Chris: when they met and turned him around kind of thing?

[: 00:41:20

[00:41:25] James: the drink and So he's been on the straight and narrow for 10 years, maybe. Yeah, in fact he says [00:41:30] When was the last

[: 00:41:30

[00:41:34] Phil: Nine, 10 years. He says 11. He goes 11. Right. Yeah. So that is his wife's influence. Yeah. So. Great woman. 78. Yeah. So 81. So 80, 70. So it had to have been around 1870, 71, that she's came into his life, you know? Wow. Yeah. Which means she was like, what? 21 years old.

[: 00:41:59

[00:42:02] Phil: what age he is now, but say he was 35, 40.

[: 00:42:06

[00:42:24] Phil: Okay, so it's very, very peaceful, idyllic, serene looking scene focusing on money, [00:42:30] as opposed to the, the dire thunder and dark skies that we just got. This piece is obviously about to be disrupted. A piece that is about to be disturbed. Some of the hogs have the fever and it's spreading. His livelihood is in danger.

[: 00:42:43

[00:43:02] Phil: And he is in the mud, working hard, and doesn't seem to be very good at it. He's Falling down

[: 00:43:08

[00:43:20] James: They're giving it back to him. Right. Absolutely.

[: 00:43:22

[00:43:35] Phil: I wrote it down because I, you know.

[: 00:43:38

[00:43:55] Chris: There's

[: 00:43:55

[00:44:11] Phil: And I just wrote, I wrote down, his hands are muddy, they're about to get bloody, kind of thing. Just as a mnemonic aid to say, yeah, his hands are dirty now, but they're gonna get dirtier. That's, yeah, so that's the opening image. I think we're in agreement on that. The catalyst I have around 816. So right, you know, right after the opening age, [00:44:30] all the way to about 1313.

[: 00:44:31

[00:44:50] Phil: And then, and then we're given sort of some references to his previous career. The one that shot, the one that shot Charlie pepper up in Lake County shot William Harvey, William Harvey [00:45:00] robbing a train in Missouri. So we're given a very quick reference to some of the things. Money did. I call it the first refusal.

[: 00:45:08

[00:45:23] Phil: He's Pete Softhouse's nephew. I don't know that we ever get any more development about Pete Softhouse, maybe some [00:45:30] person that rode with them. Cause he will mention some other members of the gang later.

[: 00:45:34

[00:45:36] Chris: too, like he's the nephew. Yes but there are other members of the gang that he had told the kid stories about money, right?

[: 00:45:43

[00:46:08] Chris: set up to for Killing someone being easy.

[: 00:46:11

[00:46:13] is

[: 00:46:14

[00:46:20] James: yeah, he would, what, what is that called? When you your blowhard, your bravado, yeah, he's embellishing. He's yeah. Cause he was probably what? 15, [00:46:30] 16 years old type of character. Yeah.

[: 00:46:32

[00:46:36] Phil: could have been much older than that.

[: 00:46:39

[00:46:42] Phil: Yeah.

[: 00:46:42

[00:46:43] James: What'd he say? I just hit him in the leg with a shovel.

[: 00:46:45

[00:46:49] Phil: His arc will be a hard one for him. Uncle Pete says he was the meanest SOB alive. That if he ever wanted a partner for a killing, money was the worst one, meaning the best. Don't have no weak nerve [00:47:00] or fear. The kid is a damn killer himself. That's what he calls himself. Hadn't killed as many as you because I'm kind of my youth He says the Schofield kid I said more than likely he gave himself that name.

[: 00:47:11

[00:47:14] James: That's not something you can do you give yourself that that handle. Yeah, that gets you shot.

[: 00:47:19

[00:47:51] Chris: I think it also, I mean, yes, he embellished it, but it also shows kind of the, here's this hardened guy, he's a gunslinger, granted he's not like that anymore, he's older, but if he's [00:48:00] responding to the injustice that way. Yes. Right. And then little Bill's like, Oh, give me some parties.

[: 00:48:05

[00:48:18] Phil: Yes.

[: 00:48:18

[00:48:32] Phil: And, and even the duck of death, that scene, you know, that guy says, that guy says, yeah, you have offended her honor.

[: 00:48:39

[00:48:48] Chris: Yeah, it doesn't look that bad.

[: 00:48:49

[00:48:52] Chris: the telling. Now you're ugly like me.

[: 00:48:54

[00:49:00] Phil: Sure. Yeah, just, I don't know about that. Yeah, no, I, I, I, I did too, I, I, I didn't know what to make of it, but yes.

[: 00:49:06

[00:49:13] Phil: Could be something there. Nice. That's something, that's interesting. That's an interesting man. Yeah, that's an interesting man. This is a classic Eastwood expression. Jesus. Thousands of dollars, thousand dollars for the killing of the Cowboys. 500 each. The kid wants to split it. Money is a changed man.

[: 00:49:27

[00:49:47] Phil: He hasn't had a drop in 10 years. Cured him of drink and wickedness. Now wickedness is mentioned a couple times. Little Bill says it to, to Alice, you know, they're not prone to that kind of wickedness. And [00:50:00] he says, my wife cured me of that wickedness. So the, the Cowboys did not commit the same kind of wickedness.

[: 00:50:08

[00:50:26] Phil: The kid rides off. That's basically up till 13 [00:50:30] minutes. Any other thoughts on anything there? Yeah, I think I think it's a good refusal. I think, you know, the debate I have lasting about six minutes, 13 minutes to 19 minutes. He goes back to separating the hogs. He looks toward the kid as he, as informed that, because his daughter at that point comes up and says, more of the hogs have the fever.

[: 00:50:53

[00:51:10] Phil: We get this rather. There are lighter moments to sort of offset the weight of this movie in times. Money has lost his aim. A shotgun is better these days. You know, he gets frustrated. He goes to get a shotgun and blows that thing away. Right. Damn right. You know, gotcha. You know, whatever. He looks to his wife grave knowing she [00:51:30] saved him and she would, and this would not be what she wants.

[: 00:51:33

[00:51:49] Phil: But she was 29 years old when she died. There is a little bit, I don't know how much time has actually passed. Cause little Bill says, come spring, you bring those ponies in. Yeah, then all of a sudden they're [00:52:00] bringing the ponies in. And well, he said come the thaw. Oh, the thaw. Yeah. Oh, okay. Okay.

[: 00:52:04

[00:52:07] James: Yeah. Cause it's like July 4th, Independence Day. Cause he hits English Bob in the mouth.

[: 00:52:11

[00:52:19] Phil: Okay. Then that makes, that's better. Okay. Good. The thaw has come and the seven ponies are delivered. They are chased away by the whores. The young one, Davy, offers up an offering, a fine pony [00:52:30] for Delilah. And I think this is. This you really start to feel for Davy. 'cause he tried to stop him and Davy is just right, sort of the innocent in this Mm-Hmm.

[: 00:52:38

[00:52:41] Chris: yes. Cut her face up and all she gets is a damn pony mommy shit. He was trying to, you know. Yeah. She ain't manji, ma'am. You know? Yeah. She ain't, man, you, he knew this was a good horse. Better than what I gave him anyhow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was trying to, I guess.

[: 00:52:54

[00:53:03] Phil: Yes, and these cowboys are not rich. Like this, that is a prized possession. That's probably his most valuable possession is that, is that good pony.

[: 00:53:10

[00:53:11] Chris: I was thinking about that earlier and I should have wrote it down. Like he has two, right? Like how many does he have to

[: 00:53:17

[00:53:19] Chris: You only have, like, I think he cut it in half. I think they had four. Yeah. He only had four. So he was cutting himself down to one. Yeah, the one he was writing.

[: 00:53:27

[00:53:28] James: Give him the best one up. Yeah. [00:53:30] Well, that, that adds to the emotional complexity of it. Cause you know that that kid's, he's got it coming. Like there's a storm coming for him, but he's not a bad guy. He's just, and then he ends up dying. You know,

[: 00:53:43

[00:53:49] Phil: I was never able to nail down a statement of theme, but clearly there are themes of. Of, of violence and the, and the real face of it [00:54:00] in this movie. Right. Because, because too many time. 'cause we, I enjoyed that last scene where he just killing everybody. Yeah. Right. That's fun. But Eastwood, I think on the other side, wants to show the naked face of gun violence of violence, right?

[: 00:54:12

[00:54:35] Phil: Right. And, and, and little Bill says to him, haven't you seen enough blood for one night? But they, they haven't. They want more. And I think, I think maybe they have to sort of reconcile their feelings. Mm hmm. Of what it, of what they've brought down, you know, as, as well as money and the kid, you know. It's, it's always interesting to me and I, and I'd mentioned this before and I don't want to, we, we don't want to talk politics.

[: 00:54:59

[00:55:19] Phil: It was in the movie tombstone, but it's, it is totally 100 percent founded on accuracy. Town after Western town would post that sign at the beginning of their town. Firearms are not [00:55:30] allowed. Turn your firearms in while you're in town. This is an ordinance ordinance. And you would think, my God, this is the wild West where law, if it existed at all, was weak and everybody needed a gun.

[: 00:55:41

[00:56:03] James: and then they come get you.

[: 00:56:04

[00:56:07] James: and it seemed like every, anytime everybody came into that town, it was raining. Yeah. And they all had the coats on and, oh no. I guess English bob, it was was It was just over cat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He had his coat on and he was like, no, I'm not carrying it.

[: 00:56:19

[00:56:31] Phil: Well, you'll never make that stick, you know, like they're

[: 00:56:33

[00:56:37] James: They were coming to get it.

[: 00:56:38

[00:57:02] Phil: So I, there are a couple of real historical references that I find make it interesting to me, but, but working those cow towns, why that's where Wyatt Earp cut his teeth before he got to,

[: 00:57:11

[00:57:22] James: Like, Hey, I know, or a little bit, yeah. Like he was like. You know, he knows what it's like when it can get out of, out of control. It seems like he might be an okay [00:57:30] guy, like a good guy. And then you realize, yeah, that he's not. And then when the writer comes in, he's like, Oh, I'm gonna, right. He turns that second gear.

[: 00:57:37

[00:58:02] Phil: You're too affable. And he got, and yeah, Masterson, not bat masters and his little brother or something, who was killed, whatever, because he would try to cajole and good nature, the outlaws out of their guns. And Wyatt Earp would, and Wyatt Earp said this, he would rather hit a man than shoot him. So he would go up and he would just knock the shit out of you with the butt of his gun.

[: 00:58:20

[00:58:42] Phil: And clearly he sees it. And, and so that outlaw thinks, well, I can just get away with anything because I'm who I am and people like, you know, Wyatt Earp. He would knock the shit out of you and take your gun and you knew there was no play in his hand. This is the way it is because if you're too [00:59:00] affable as in the movie Wyatt Earp, you get killed.

[: 00:59:03

[00:59:04] James: you got to take control. And

[: 00:59:06

[00:59:24] Phil: You, you wouldn't want to give that guy five seconds of slack before you got control of him or he's going [00:59:30] to mow you down. Right. So I, I, I'm kind of sympathetic to little Bill, I think.

[: 00:59:34

[00:59:38] Phil: At least in the first half. First half, yes. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. The spring is here and the seven ponies are delivered.

[: 00:59:44

[01:00:06] Phil: Kill some chickens if you have to. Money is a changed man. His horses, his horses too, hasn't been in the saddle, hasn't been in the saddle for a long time. And his horse has not been a saddle horse for a long time. He's fallen on his ass, getting dirt and another light moment. But,

[: 01:00:20

[01:00:24] Phil: horses is getting revenge on me.

[: 01:00:27

[01:00:31] James: just a question. What was his, what was William's money's wife's name? And the other related was two trees? Yes. Feathers. Sally, two trees and Claudia Claudia, feathers. I wonder if they were native Americans.

[: 01:00:43

[01:00:44] Phil: Feathers sounds like a yes. And Ned sounds

[: 01:00:48

[01:00:53] Phil: yeah. So, yeah. I thought about that

[: 01:00:57

[01:01:03] Chris: well, Native Americans aren't over friendly.

[: 01:01:05

[01:01:16] James: you know, William money shows up, talks to the husband and then he just gets on his horse and leaves for three.

[: 01:01:21

[01:01:28] James: But you know, you know, if you got [01:01:30] a problem, kids, go see her. Yeah. That's what got me. Like how, how young

[: 01:01:34

[01:01:36] Chris: It was like, Jesus. Well, that series

[: 01:01:37

[01:01:46] Chris: years and that kid's a Schofield kid or whatever, yeah. So yes, there was

[: 01:01:50

[01:01:59] James: [01:02:00] absolutely.

[: 01:02:00

[01:02:18] Phil: And I don't know, there's backstory there. You have to fill in the blanks about why she would ever be attracted to, because at the end it's, she never did find out why her daughter fell in love and married a man of [01:02:30] such intemperate and vicious nature or something. He was a bad boy. Girls love bad boys.

[: 01:02:35

[01:02:43] Phil: Yes. Only knew his past. Yeah. Yeah. No, he he is actually very tender to Delilah. Right.

[: 01:02:49

[01:02:51] Chris: Yeah. That horse is throwing him around, all that shit. And he doesn't ever raise his voice. No, no. He even makes a joke about it. You know, why? I haven't been in the saddle myself in a while. Right.

[: 01:02:59

[01:03:00] Chris: But it does your thing you love. He's you know, riding off into the second act, yeah? Yes. Getting back in the saddle.

[: 01:03:05

[01:03:06] Phil: there you go. Break into two. 20 minutes, rides away. 20 minutes to 29. So I give him 19 seconds to ride into the second act. 19 seconds, all right. Anything else on those parts? I, I, I like the Schofield kid. I think his acting was amazing. Yeah. And, and maybe I didn't appreciate it the first time I saw it, but this time I was like, nah man, the Schofield, he's, he's really carrying his weight in this movie.[01:03:30]

[: 01:03:30

[01:03:55] Chris: Skinny roads is what the girls are doing. Yeah. And so I, I, I just, the sound of wind. [01:04:00]

[: 01:04:00

[01:04:14] Phil: Here we learn that Little Bill's building a house. Little Bill wants nothing more than to drink his coffee and watch the sunset on the porch of his new house. Contrast Now, I put here, contrast Little Bill's house with Money's house. Money's house is ramshackle in the mud and

[: 01:04:29

[01:04:31] Phil: And Little Bill's house looks

[: 01:04:33

[01:04:43] Phil: That one armed guy, I liked him.

[: 01:04:44

[01:04:48] Phil: guns and only one arm.

[: 01:04:49

[01:04:56] James: Nothing. It ain't there. , probably a Civil War bet. It probably is [01:05:00] almost guaranteed. He got shot in the fingertip and they had to take his arm.

[: 01:05:03

[01:05:09] Phil: Trouble is coming. So whether that's I think, I don't know if it's, that's English Bob's train or not, but when I always thought it was, I think it is little Bill knows at this point that trouble is coming and the train sounds in the distance and he will have to deal with it.

[: 01:05:23

[01:05:25] James: They just put a thousand dollar bounty and every, every scum is going to [01:05:30] be coming along. So he's going to have to make his mark on the first one he finds. Yep. It just

[: 01:05:34

[01:05:37] Phil: Well, it's funny, English Bob comes out and he thought Little Bit was dead, but he sees him and I don't remember, I don't remember what he says, like, Oh, shit and sausage or something.

[: 01:05:47

[01:05:51] Chris: demeanor completely changes. It's like, yeah, the actor sold the shit out of it. Yeah. Yes. No, obviously arrogant, pompous guy. And then the guy that's on the train, you know, shooting for [01:06:00] fucking king and queen. Yeah. Completely different fucking guy when, when he sees Bill.

[: 01:06:04

[01:06:06] Phil: Heard you died, Bill.

[: 01:06:09

[01:06:12] Phil: Yeah. William Money pays a visit to Ned Logan. Sally Two Trees is not thrilled to see him. It's been 11 years since Money fired a gun at a man. Now her fingers have been cut off. Chris mentioned this, the story has grown.

[: 01:06:25

[01:06:42] Phil: Anyway, she gave me the evil eye, like you said. Campfire confessions. I'm listing all this under funny games. Mm-Hmm. Campfire Confessions. He starts mentioning members of his gang, and I wrote some of these down. Eagle hated. Eagle. Hated my guts. Bonaparte didn't like him either. Quincy was scared and just watched all the time.

[: 01:06:59

[01:07:18] Phil: Teeth out the back of his head? Of his head. I can't He deserve that. He didn't deserve that. I can't remember why. When he shot, he sobered up. Yeah. I couldn't remember when I sobered up. You know.

[: 01:07:27

[01:07:28] Phil: He, yeah, he said, he [01:07:30] says he didn't deserve that. So he's, there's all regret.

[: 01:07:33

[01:07:37] Chris: deserve that and later on deserves that nothing to do with it.

[: 01:07:39

[01:07:42] James: Would they they keep setting it up the whole time of everybody but William money seems to be competent And living their, their story, their cartoon story, like a little bill.

[: 01:07:55

[01:08:04] Phil: He does not want. To be that guy anymore and regrets ever being that guy.

[: 01:08:10

[01:08:11] Phil: Oh yes. Yes. He, more than anybody else, knows the real face of violence.

[: 01:08:19

[01:08:35] James: Andrew Garfield, the president, yeah.

[: 01:08:37

[01:08:50] Chris: Chinaman's not the correct nomenclature.

[: 01:08:53

[01:08:56] Phil: the fuck? Yes, but shooting Chinaman [01:09:00] like they're rats.

[: 01:09:01

[01:09:07] Phil: Just the mentality that They're just, they're not, I mean, anyway.

[: 01:09:11

[01:09:28] Phil: Right, is Little Bill coming? [01:09:30] What did Little Bill say? He said he was sitting on his porch, or whatever. He's building his roof, you know? English Bob and Little Bill know each other, and English Bob is not thrilled. Here we get Bill's last name, Daggett, which up until now we didn't know. Newton Hayes and Abilene.

[: 01:09:45

[01:10:03] Phil: Who is not a brave man. Little Bill runs, trying not to get wet. Little Bill runs off English Bob and sends word to the, all the villains everywhere. Whole time he's kicking him. He thinks you think I'm kicking you, Bob, but I'm not. I'm talking to you. I'm talking to all the villains out there, you know, that word is going to spread just like the word of the dove spread.

[: 01:10:23

[01:10:41] Phil: Did you ever go into town? Ah, it's just supplies and stuff No, no, I mean to get a woman because I don't miss it that much. Well, you just used your hand and Well, your money's like what we're not talking about this I don't miss it all that much I don't miss it all that much English Bob and Beauchamp in [01:11:00] jail the killing of Corky Corcoran.

[: 01:11:02

[01:11:03] Chris: I like the bit about the, the bed too, where he's, they're laying the, you know, his, his blanket down or whatever by the campfire. And he's, you know, all these damn rocks or whatever, you know, I miss my damn bed. And then you hear the weather and it's starting to rain, you're going to miss your damn roof here in a minute.

[: 01:11:18

[01:11:24] Phil: That's right.

[: 01:11:25

[01:11:30] Phil: Yeah. Yeah. We learned the true story of the killing of Corky Corcoran that Corcoran could have had English Bob, except for shooting himself in the foot and his gun exploding that English Bob is not quite the gunslinger he makes out.

[: 01:11:42

[01:11:49] James: which most people are right in this whole movie.

[: 01:11:52

[01:12:05] Phil: And the kid said, well, I killed five men. You know, he's still going on with that. Yeah. But Ned's there were three, weren't there? Right. It's Ned says there were. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And money probably does remember and doesn't want to, doesn't want to remember. He doesn't want to remember. Yeah.

[: 01:12:19

[01:12:40] Phil: That, that, why, and that's how he, we talked about this during Tombstone, don't need to get into it now, but Wyatt Earp was very ice cold and methodical. Right. And, and picking his targets while everybody else was panicking.

[: 01:12:50

[01:12:57] Sherry: picking his, yeah.

[: 01:12:59

[01:13:14] Chris: Yeah.

[: 01:13:14

[01:13:25] Chris: Yeah, so earlier y'all said that y'all kind of, I guess, sympathize with Little Bill, right? Yes. So it's interesting to [01:13:30] me, because we talked about Blade Runner, and y'all sympathize with Roy Batty, so y'all just like this guy's bad guys.

[: 01:13:34

[01:13:50] Chris: But in this scene, like, an attackman selling it, he's crazy as shit. Like, this dude's not all there. You know what I mean? I'm like, this is a fucking bad guy.

[: 01:13:57

[01:14:04] Chris: flip a switch.

[: 01:14:05

[01:14:11] Phil: I do not like assassins. I do not like assassins. And I think he's doing that for the book at that point. I think at his core, he really wants to stomp them like roaches. Yeah. See what I'm saying? Right. And I think that's why he's so hard on Ned later. I'm going to hurt you. He views them as people who are, are [01:14:30] wrecking.

[: 01:14:30

[01:14:34] James: And well, that's the thing with Bo champ, the writer coming in, that's when you see that change in bell when he just goes, Oh, I can really send a message and make my thing and write a book. You know, the duck of death, he ain't got shit on me.

[: 01:14:48

[01:14:50] Phil: Yeah, I said duck. Duck says I. Duck guy says. Duck guy says.

[: 01:14:56

[01:15:07] Chris: Menacing, I guess, is the term. Yeah. Duck guy says, it's just super menacing. Yep, okay, it's no duck from here on.

[: 01:15:12

[01:15:15] Chris: It's Doug from Huron. Yes, sir. Yes,

[: 01:15:16

[01:15:23] Phil: Yes. The English Bob is, he assumes that that gun is not loaded and he's being set up. [01:15:30] And little Bill, you can see,

[: 01:15:32

[01:15:36] James: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And that's what right after that's when he peeks out the window and says, there's a storm coming.

[: 01:15:43

[01:16:03] Phil: Oh yeah, okay, when she sees Bob leave town, she says nobody's coming, nobody's gonna, you know. And they're, they seem rather disappointed about that. Will and company see English Bob riding out on the train Will stays sober but is catching a cold, and very soon he will develop a fever, and be almost hallucinating, just out of it.

[: 01:16:24

[01:16:44] Phil: And I think that's how he feels about it. So let the, he just wants to squash them like bugs, you know, and that's how much he hates them as a law man or whatever. I have a midpoint false defeat now at this point. Do you have any more fun and games or where do you have your midpoint [01:17:00] falling?

[: 01:17:04

[01:17:12] Phil: Okay. That makes sense. I have a midpoint false defeat in an hour and 10 to roughly an hour and 20. I did change my mind. So let me, let me check my notes.

[: 01:17:19

[01:17:39] Phil: Ned and the kid take off, meet up with Will and they take care of him. So at this point, I think it's a false defeat because they get into town. Will has a fever and gets the shit kicked out of him by Little Bill. Yeah, that's what I

[: 01:17:49

[01:17:50] Phil: And has to basically crawl out on his hands and knees.

[: 01:17:54

[01:18:06] Chris: So that means you're always lost as a false victory then. Yes. Okay.

[: 01:18:09

[01:18:11] Phil: So roughly 20 minutes later. Okay. My bad guys close in money hallucinates. He sees the angel of death and the river. I can only assume the river stakes where, you know, you're, you know, sees the angel of death, his snake eyes. Will says he's scared of dying more thunder at this point. So [01:18:30] in his fever, he is seeing things.

[: 01:18:32

[01:18:49] Phil: Well, if I had to pick anybody, it would be you and Right. A sweet moment. That's the, that's my bad guys close in.

[: 01:18:55

[01:19:07] James: Three days later. Three days. Oh yeah. Holy shit. Yeah.

[: 01:19:11

[01:19:12] Chris: I wrote a note about three days and then he's. Different like the old money is revived. You know what I mean?

[: 01:19:17

[01:19:24] James: yeah, that's what I was thinking like he's going down. He's dying.

[: 01:19:26

[01:19:32] Phil: Wow, oh nice. I think we should have a moment of silence For the moment we thunder should roll right now. There you go. That's brilliant you guys Holy shit, you can put it in Right, I might, I might have to. Insert thunder sound effect here.

[: 01:19:48

[01:19:52] Chris: go. That doesn't have quite the same feel, Lian. It doesn't really.

[: 01:19:57

[01:20:12] Phil: That was like a false false victory midpoint. You have it as a false defeat though, as a midpoint?

[: 01:20:18

[01:20:24] Phil: Okay, okay, so you have a midpoint false victory at the killing of Davey. Yes.

[: 01:20:28

[01:20:37] Chris: Yes, I'm just a little earlier than you, yeah. Cause they kill both cowboys, they do what they're supposed to do, and then But, you know, they don't all make it out.

[: 01:20:44

[01:20:49] Chris: Yeah, money getting, and that's what I wrote down initially because it's right at halfway through the movie like it's where it needs to be So I was yeah, I'm not I guess sold on it, but you sure there's too much after for [01:21:00] it Yeah, you know, okay.

[: 01:21:02

[01:21:02] Phil: cuz cuz

[: 01:21:04

[01:21:06] James: in right to me and yeah, okay. All right. Yeah, that makes sense storm The castle is the town

[: 01:21:13

[01:21:19] Chris: Like it's not very long, but it's, you know,

[: 01:21:21

[01:21:32] James: yeah. Well, that's when you find out Ned can't pull a trigger.

[: 01:21:36

[01:21:49] James: Get him some water. Goddammit. Yeah. Everybody else is catching. Did you get him? You messed him again. I got him, I got him. He knew he was dead before everybody else did. Yeah.

[: 01:21:56

[01:22:03] Phil: Mm-Hmm. . Right. Because you can hear that bullet. And you know, I'm bleeding. I

[: 01:22:07

[01:22:11] James: Well, he was the good one. He was the one that gave him an extra pony.

[: 01:22:13

[01:22:15] Chris: Yeah. I didn't deserve to die like that, but no deserves that.

[: 01:22:19

[01:22:21] Phil: We've done stuff for money before, you know, anyway. All right. So my dark night of the soul, Ned bells out having shot Davey in the stomach. [01:22:30] Ned doesn't have the stomach for this anymore. Little is little Bill's informed of the killing of Davey. Little Bill gets a posse and the cowboys get Ned and Ned gets a whipping.

[: 01:22:39

[01:22:41] James: Yeah. So his posse didn't get him. The guys at the The ranch. The ranch, yeah. The Bart got him where the two boys have been working. Yes. Yeah. Those ranch guys got him.

[: 01:22:49

[01:22:57] Phil: The kid makes a confession. The kid is not thrilled by his [01:23:00] achievements. It didn't seem real. All on account of pulling the trigger. Take away all that he's got, all that he's gonna have. We all have it coming, kid. So this, to me, is the lowest point in the movie. The Dark Knight. So, is that your Dark Knight, or?

[: 01:23:14

[01:23:23] James: well, it's, it's during the dark night when, during the confession by the tree and he's watching that the girl light up.

[: 01:23:29

[01:23:36] Phil: Yeah. The kid doesn't even want the money. You can

[: 01:23:37

[01:23:41] Phil: use a gun again. Right. I'm not going to be killing nobody ever again.

[: 01:23:45

[01:24:07] Phil: Right? And so this is 18 No, he didn't. Allegedly. Well, allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly died. That is true. If you watch

[: 01:24:14

[01:24:16] Phil: we've been to Brushy Bill Roberts,

[: 01:24:17

[01:24:19] Phil: yeah. It's more fun to believe. And I've read that book that Young Guns 2 is based on.

[: 01:24:24

[01:24:33] Chris: Billy the Kid died in 79?

[: 01:24:37

[01:24:49] Phil: No one ever saw the body. They, they buried it in a closed casket and no one was, you, Okay, so, what, what little Bill did in posting Ned up in the casket is [01:25:00] exactly what happened in the old west. If you killed a high profile outlaw, you displayed it and 10 types were made and it was posted, you

[: 01:25:07

[01:25:08] Chris: Yeah, right. You can see,

[: 01:25:11

[01:25:36] Phil: It was like a slaughterhouse. You could see their bodies. Where's the dead body of Billy the Kid? Nowhere. Why? I don't think it was produced.

[: 01:25:46

[01:25:52] Phil: Yes. So I think, as notorious an outlaw as Billy the Kid was, He would have been hung on the porch [01:26:00] for all to see.

[: 01:26:01

[01:26:23] Phil: Yes, yes. Wow.

[: 01:26:24

[01:26:30] Chris: I know you started to say you knew who was alive and who was dead on the years or whatever, like Billy kid. So the

[: 01:26:37

[01:26:51] Phil: And the only time they really did it with certainty is that woman saying that Ned was telling little Bill that William Money [01:27:00] was even more cold blooded than William Bonney even. William H. Bonney was Billy the Kid's given name. And so he says more, more cold blooded than William Bonney, which I thought, I thought that's pretty cool because William Bonney would have just quote unquote, been killed in 1879.

[: 01:27:15

[01:27:17] James: But yeah, Ned told Bill about all the things that William Money's done. Oh, the same William Money that

[: 01:27:23

[01:27:33] Phil: Right. And probably more so than we're even told.

[: 01:27:36

[01:27:41] Phil: More cold blood. Yes. Just starts drinking. He's he knows what he's going to do now. Money. Yeah. We talked about the 69 to 70 will takes a drink again for the first time in 10 years will goes one way, the kid, another, the kid vows never to kill anybody.

[: 01:27:53

[01:28:11] Phil: Money enters the bar, kills Skinny, dead. It's fun, they're all sitting around and all you see is, is, is money coming in with that shotgun.

[: 01:28:19

[01:28:28] Chris: two.

[: 01:28:28

[01:28:37] Phil: Will enters the bar and who's,

[: 01:28:39

[01:28:45] Chris: Oh yes. Y'all

[: 01:28:46

[01:29:04] Phil: You,

[: 01:29:06

[01:29:09] Phil: Kills him a second time. And then anybody else along the way, I says, he's walking out. Stomping roaches is what he's doing at that point. Stopping roaches. We talked

[: 01:29:19

[01:29:23] Chris: Yes. And then, you know, you just shot it on our man. Well, he should have armed himself or whatever. Yes. Anybody. He wants to post

[: 01:29:28

[01:29:30] Chris: decorate their saloon with my friend. Yeah. Yes. Now I'm here to kill you little bill. Yeah, his menace is like Gene Hackman's menace earlier Like didn't have shit on Eastwood's at the end.

[: 01:29:41

[01:29:43] Phil: but but to little Bill's credit He was like when he shoots me, he's only got one shot left in that shell. Shoot him down with the dog He is yeah, like the dog is so little Bill Yeah, he did not, he was not a coward either. No,

[: 01:29:55

[01:29:59] Chris: Yeah, wasn't going to [01:30:00] flinch away. Yeah.

[: 01:30:01

[01:30:10] Chris: 2. 04. Before you get to that, there's one thing I had I looked it up afterwards when I was reading it. I don't know if there's a correlation here, but it's interesting.

[: 01:30:17

[01:30:38] Chris: That's the opposite of, I was lucky in the order. You know what I mean? As far as glorifying.

[: 01:30:42

[01:30:51] Chris: Or in this it's, you know, instead of all that, it's just, I was looking, well,

[: 01:30:53

[01:30:55] Phil: Right. Where like, so it almost reminds me of that scene in lethal weapon [01:31:00] where. The only thing I was ever good at. The only thing I was ever good at. Only one or two guys in the world could make that shot. Right. Killing comes naturally to William Money. He's always been good at it. And he's always been lucky with it.

[: 01:31:14

[01:31:21] Chris: I like how the guy keeps, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, why did you, who was next? I'll tell you who's gonna be last.

[: 01:31:27

[01:31:33] James: that writer was going gunslinger to gunslinger, right?

[: 01:31:36

[01:31:40] Phil: everybody else. Little Bill was certainly Bob was right, but money knowing the true face of violence, and I think that's the real Theme of this movie the naked face of violence, you know that everybody could be a

[: 01:31:55

[01:32:02] Phil: pulling triggers and taking away everything a man has Everything he's gonna have and we all got it coming William money standing by his wife's grave some years later his mother and his mother in law visits the grave But money has left for San Francisco Where he prospered in dry goods, his mother in law never did get closure.

[: 01:32:20

[01:32:38] Phil: It, it made a nice ending for me. And that's it. Yeah. So, but I, like I said, I couldn't nail a theme except the naked face of violence, you know, that you want to be a gunslinger, you better be all in because it's gonna, If you're not all in, it's going to turn you into what the, you know, the kid probably is never going to touch a gun again, you know and [01:33:00] I guess Eastwood has a sense of it because certainly like in movies like Dirty Harry, one of the critiques of that movie is how it, how it glorifies violence, you know, and it's fun to watch, but Eastwood, I think is making a clear statement in this one that, you know, you know, glorifying gun violence.

[: 01:33:21

[01:33:28] James: Good.

[: 01:33:29

[01:33:39] Phil: So not even as long as the movie this time. That's good. If you turns out to be as long as the movie. Oh, so we had that president high energy on the first one, you know, That's true, yeah. Well, I thought we would, I would have thought we'd have done this one first because it was going to be a more of a slog and then ended on Goonies, but Goonies turned out to be way more.

[: 01:33:59

[01:34:22] Phil: I chose that music because it reminded me of that scene in Good, the Bad and the Ugly when they're having, the three of them are having the showdown and it's more appropriate for this movie too is [01:34:30] because Western and showdown and gunslinging and all right, it's my movie. So I'll start. I absolutely recommend this movie.

[: 01:34:36

[01:34:53] Phil: And even the Schofield kid, I, I don't think I appreciated his contributions enough the first couple of times I saw it. But this time [01:35:00] to me, he, he, he was a minor player. He didn't overshadow anybody, but he wasn't overshadowed either. I think he really nailed the role he needed to play in this movie.

[: 01:35:10

[01:35:18] Sherry: I'm, I'm not big into westerns. Sure. There's only certain ones that I do like. Right. But I recommend this movie.

[: 01:35:26

[01:35:34] Sherry: Yeah, because it's, it's, it's one of those, you want to see what's going to happen.

[: 01:35:38

[01:35:44] Sherry: There's, like, I like westerns like Maverick with Mel Gibson. Yeah, they're fun. This is not a fun movie.

[: 01:35:51

[01:35:54] Phil: 20 minutes are fun.

[: 01:35:56

[01:36:13] Phil: anyway, it says something of Eastwood and the story that, oh yeah, the story you were able to give it a recommend is.

[: 01:36:19

[01:36:20] Sherry: Cause I, like I said, when I watched the trailer, I thought, how am I going to get through? Yeah. No, I know. But then when I start watching it, I'm like, I remembered watching it. I [01:36:30] remembered I enjoyed it, but I didn't remember the movie. Right. Right. But I did enjoy the movie. Yeah.

[: 01:36:36

[01:36:43] Phil: Keep watching it. Keep watching it. Yeah. Yeah. I think that is the way that the movie that's able to even win or somebody who isn't a fan maybe of that kind of stuff. Yeah. Cool.

[: 01:36:53

[01:36:56] James: Great Eastwood movie. I think it's the sequel [01:37:00] to Josie Wales. If you want to watch Josie Wells and then watch unforgiven and let me know if I'm right or wrong

[: 01:37:06

[01:37:15] Phil: That character, I don't think is as vicious as Money, but it's almost like that's Money's earlier career almost. Because Eastwood in those movies is a stone cold killer gunslinger. There is a scene in Fistful where he does down five deputies. [01:37:30] It's a beautiful line. He walks by the, he hadn't killed them yet and they made fun of his mule and he's gonna make them pay for that.

[: 01:37:36

[01:37:53] Phil: Yeah. And then Jersey Wales maybe the middle and then Unforgiven the end of that character. The very, very end. Yeah. [01:38:00] Good stuff.

[: 01:38:01

[01:38:12] Chris: It was one best picture and I think a best director came out. So

[: 01:38:17

[01:38:36] Phil: I just can't even imagine.

[: 01:38:38

[01:38:43] Sherry: Yes.

[: 01:38:44

[01:38:45] Sherry: Any other thoughts on the first horror movie? I call it a horror movie. Well, it's a slasher that

[: 01:38:51

[01:38:57] Phil: I can't watch paint your wagon, which is a [01:39:00] musical that Eastwood is in with some other big name actors. What's wrong with play Misty for me? For you? Like, why do you not like it? It's, it's like fatal Attraction or something. He's a, a radio dj and some woman that he gets involved with turns out to be a fatal attraction and, and is Oh, okay.

[: 01:39:18

[01:39:30] Chris: sounds like a different character for him to play, it sounds like.

[: 01:39:32

[01:39:32] Phil: He's in a movie where. He plays a rebel soldier or a union soldier and he gets injured and is taken in. I can't remember, I don't know, I can't remember what it's called, The Undaunted or something. And she's slowly poisoning him or something. That's another one I can't stomach. And I'd have to look that up.

[: 01:39:47

[01:39:57] James: 60s type of thing. He's got a bunch of stuff.

[: 01:39:59

[01:40:09] Phil: Yeah. Anyway.

[: 01:40:10

[01:40:13] Sherry: Play Misty for me. Play Misty for me. Yeah. Well, the only thing is because she wants to play that song all the time, right? Yeah. But the only thing is there's scenes that you can tell is definitely an old movie from, what is it, the seventies probably.

[: 01:40:25

[01:40:34] Phil: like, there's two or three that I, I will never watch a, a movie where Eastwood sings. In a western. Painter Wagon, I mean, it needs not even to exist, but Whatever. And then there's, like I said, there's two others, Misty and that other one But generally Eastwood is almost When he pushes

[: 01:40:51

[01:40:56] Chris: Well, that's the end of that. Go ahead.

[: 01:40:57

[01:41:02] Sherry: I don't think I've ever seen those.

[: 01:41:04

[01:41:12] Phil: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You did. You did. It's, anyway. Anyway. Talking makes we go all day, so we need to cut this short. All right. Any thoughts finally on Unforgiven? We're good? All right. We are [01:41:30] [01:42:00] out.