Banderas, Bears, and Battles: Unraveling the 13th Warrior
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Snyder's Genres:
MONSTER IN THE HOUSE - MONSTER, HOUSES, SIN
GOLDEN FLEECE - ROAD, TEAM, PRIZE
OUT OF THE BOTTLE - A WISH, A SPELL, A LESSON
DUDE WITH A PROBLEM - AN INNOCENT HERO, A SUDDEN EVENT, A TEST OF SURVIVAL
RITE OF PASSAGE - A LIFE PROBLEM, THE WRONG WAY TO FIX IT, THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM
BUDDY LOVE - AN INCOMPLETE HERO, A COUNTERPART NEEDED TO MAKE THEIR LIFE WHOLE, A COMPLICATION THAT IS KEEPING THEM APART EVEN THOUGH THAT FORCE IS BINDING THEM TOGETHER
WHYDUNNIT? - A DETECTIVE, A SECRET, A DARK TURN
FOOL TRIUMPHANT - A FOOL, AN ESTABLISHMENT, A TRANSMUTATION
INSTITUTIONALIZED - A GROUP, A CHOICE, A SACRIFICE (JOIN, BURN IT DOWN, COMMIT SUICIDE)
SUPERHERO - A POWER, A NEMESIS, A CURSE
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The Snyder Beats:
OPENING IMAGE
THEME STATED
SETUP
CATALYST
DEBATE
BREAK INTO TWO
B STORY
FUN AND GAMES
MIDPOINT (FALSE VICTORY OR DEFEAT BUT OPPOSITE OF THE ALL IS LOST)
BAD GUYS CLOSE IN
ALL IS LOST (OPPOSITE OF THE MIDPOINT, FALSE VICTORY OR DEFEAT)
DARK NIGHT OF THE SOUL
BREAK INTO THREE
gathering the team
executing the plan
high tower surprise
dig deep down
execution of the new plan
FINALE
FINAL IMAGE
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Join us as we delve into the cinematic exploration of "The 13th Warrior," a film that sparks a debate about storytelling potential and character development. The episode highlights the film's shortcomings, particularly in establishing its characters and delivering a cohesive narrative. Our hosts dissect the missed opportunities to deepen character arcs and thematic elements, particularly the protagonist's journey from poet to warrior. As they share their thoughts, they also reflect on the film's impact and how it resonates with the audience today. With a mix of humor and critical analysis, they navigate through the highs and lows of this 1999 adaptation of Michael Crichton's work, ultimately arriving at a consensus to consider it for those who enjoy medieval tales.
Takeaways:
- The podcast discusses the challenges of adapting the story of the 13th Warrior from Michael Crichton's novel, highlighting the potential that was lost in the film's execution.
- Listeners are encouraged to consider the cultural and thematic elements within the film, including how characters evolve from poets to warriors throughout their journey.
- The participants express their frustrations with the film's pacing and character development, noting that many characters lack depth and distinct identities.
- A recurring theme is the importance of establishing strong emotional connections with characters to enhance audience engagement and investment in their journeys.
- The episode emphasizes that a good story must include well-defined themes and character arcs that resonate with the audience.
- Ultimately, the hosts conclude that while the film has its moments, it largely fails to deliver a cohesive and powerful narrative experience.
13th Warrior podcast, Antonio Banderas films, Viking movies, Beowulf adaptations, film analysis, movie reviews, Ridley Scott, John McTiernan, film storytelling, cinematic themes, character development in movies, supernatural elements in film, cult classic movies, film discussions, movie recommendations, fantasy films, audience engagement, film editing, movie plot analysis, cinematic tropes
Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcript
Don't say anything.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Oh, no.
Speaker A:You can say anything you want.
Speaker B:Whatever.
Speaker B:To me.
Speaker B:To me, it is actually like taking sandpaper to my soul.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:That was one of my scenes that I actually put my phone down and watched.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Ridley Scott did not have a fun time shooting this movie in America.
Speaker C:Basically dies.
Speaker C:He spiritually dies and is reawakened three days later.
Speaker C:Somebody clip that Market put it in the trailer.
Speaker A:There was a scene with an octopus, but they cut it out.
Speaker B:Oh, really?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Still one of my favorite characters in all of cinema.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:The wife did not agree that it's a perfect movie at all.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker D:You think you pick up all the bus driver's teeth, they'll give you a medal.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:It's high in calories, low in nutrition is why, I guess is one way to look at it.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But I love eating a box of donuts, man.
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Fellowship of the Real.
Speaker B:We are back.
Speaker B:This is what, season four?
Speaker B:Yeah, I said season four, but I was only, like, 80% sure.
Speaker C:That sounds right.
Speaker B:That sounds right.
Speaker B:I think that's right.
Speaker B:I'll go back and look, but I think that's right.
Speaker B:All right, so we are recording.
Speaker C:Thanks for sticking in there with us.
Speaker D:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker B:Yeah, Absolutely.
Speaker B:Hopefully the New Zealanders and the guy from Virginia are still there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So we're recording now, and by the time this releases, it won't matter, but I think we're shooting.
Speaker B:I said March just so that we could have enough time to get a bunch.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:If we have a bunch in the can, we can start dropping them sooner.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:Yeah, we're not going to do anything during Christmas, obviously, and New Year's, So I figure maybe the next time we meet is in January sometime Late January.
Speaker B:Whatever.
Speaker B:We'll figure something out.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:But putting some in the can has always served us well.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It allows us not to feel rushed or.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Pressured.
Speaker D:And then something comes up.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:You know, we can't avoid.
Speaker C:Takes a lot of time to curate everything that we're gonna say.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like, and get our opinions and think of movies.
Speaker C:So there's a lot of thought that goes into this.
Speaker C:We don't just send a message on, you know, Facebook four days in advance and say, what do you want to watch?
Speaker B:I mean, that's available in full disclosure.
Speaker B:I don't put a lot of thought in my opinions.
Speaker B:I say whatever is on my mind.
Speaker D:And we love doing.
Speaker D:Thank God.
Speaker D:I thought I was the only one, Phil, you know, so.
Speaker D:So James puts effort and we.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:Seat of our pants.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I'm at home doing reps.
Speaker C:Maybe that's.
Speaker D:Why his comments are way better than ours.
Speaker B:He thought about this.
Speaker B:What the.
Speaker C:This.
Speaker C:This whole off season, I've been taking DVDs out of the shelf, opening them, pulling the DVD out, putting it back in, closing it just so I can get those reps in.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:You guys, out.
Speaker B:It's all, you know, I'm a professional.
Speaker B:Lower wrist strength.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:All right, so I guess this first time we're gonna do 13th warriors with James Pick.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:You're.
Speaker C:You're welcome.
Speaker C:You're welcome.
Speaker B:Well, I will get into this.
Speaker B:I had some problems with it, but overall, I did not mind watching it.
Speaker C:Good.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker B:Do you have thoughts, Jerry?
Speaker A:I have, yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:We're okay.
Speaker B:How do we do this?
Speaker B:We do the.
Speaker B:We did.
Speaker D:We do hers.
Speaker D:First things first.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it's been a while.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker D:Little rusty.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:It's always like this at the start.
Speaker B:All right, so let's do Sherry's Bumper.
Speaker B:Deal.
Speaker B:And then she'll hit.
Speaker D:Oh, what's it.
Speaker C:Bumpers.
Speaker D:Is a bumper.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:Sherry's Queries.
Speaker B:Well, we need those.
Speaker C:One of those.
Speaker C:We still haven't thought of a name.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Sherry, you got anything?
Speaker D:I don't know.
Speaker D:Maybe my part, but, you know, at the beginning or.
Speaker B:Sherry's not getting quotables.
Speaker D:Yeah, there we go.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So the beauty of edits.
Speaker B:But, hey, it.
Speaker B:Leave it in.
Speaker B:All right, let's do Sherry's Notable Quotables.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:All right, Jerry, now we're doing 13th Warrior.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Okay, so these movies all have some sort of number.
Speaker D:Nice.
Speaker A:In the title.
Speaker B:That's clever.
Speaker A:Yeah, I did.
Speaker A:I didn't intend to do it, but it, you know, ended up.
Speaker A:I said, okay.
Speaker A:I kept pulling up movies that had numbers, and I thought, okay, let's do that.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker A:First one's easy.
Speaker A:I see Dead people.
Speaker D:Sixth Sense.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker A:And, boy, did I see dead people in both of these movies.
Speaker A:That's what I was thinking.
Speaker A:Because when I saw that.
Speaker A:I see dead people.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:The body counts.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Anyway, how many movies just does this?
Speaker B:How many?
Speaker B:We've done a couple movies that have numbers.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:With the fifth element and 13th warrior.
Speaker B:11 blocks.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Or 15.
Speaker B:13 blocks.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker B:16 with number blocks.
Speaker B:Always get that number.
Speaker B:Yeah, we've done a couple movies with numbers in them.
Speaker C:How about that?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:16 blocks.
Speaker D:13th warrior.
Speaker B:Fifth element.
Speaker D:Fifth element.
Speaker D:Is that it?
Speaker D:I feel like there's another one.
Speaker B:Aliens two.
Speaker D:Apollo 13.
Speaker D:Apollo 13.
Speaker B:Apollo 13.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker C:But that wouldn't be in the numbered category at your local video store.
Speaker C:Like, 13th Warrior was in the number section.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Because the numbers first.
Speaker C:Yuma.
Speaker C:That would be one.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:That was a great.
Speaker D:I almost picked that one.
Speaker D:I thought about that one.
Speaker C:Finn Foster, well, underrated actor.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, this one might not be in the number section, but it has a number in the next one.
Speaker C:It works.
Speaker A:I don't know if y'all gonna know this one.
Speaker A:Well, there won't be any berries in the fruit salad now, so we all lose.
Speaker D:What is that?
Speaker D:What is that?
Speaker B:There won't be any berries in the fruit salad.
Speaker A:Well, now, so we all lose.
Speaker A:And I read later.
Speaker A:It's in the trailer.
Speaker A:I remember seeing the movie, but I don't remember this line.
Speaker D:Oh, that sounds so familiar.
Speaker A:Someone knocks the berries out of his hand.
Speaker A:Do you want me to tell you or.
Speaker D:Give us a minute.
Speaker D:Son of a.
Speaker C:Is it a comedy?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I have to be honest with that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Mrs.
Speaker C:Doubtfire.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker D:Seven psychopaths.
Speaker A:No, no.
Speaker C:My Fruiting.
Speaker A:Yeah, it has a number in the title.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker A:And I'm.
Speaker A:I could probably picture this guy saying it.
Speaker B:Yeah, of course it has a number in the title.
Speaker C:So there's somebody out there just screaming at the radio.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker C:Just knowing it.
Speaker D:Yep.
Speaker B:I'll probably kill myself when I've hurt.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:I'm gonna kick myself because I've.
Speaker B:The number is one.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest.
Speaker C:No, I guess that wouldn't really count as a one.
Speaker A:I'll tell you.
Speaker D:Hold on.
Speaker B:Well, to add a lot of this dead space out, but.
Speaker A:Well, there won't be any berries in the fruit salad now, so we all lose.
Speaker D:Heard that.
Speaker B:I've seen this movie 1.
Speaker A:It has the number, it has the letter.
Speaker A:I mean, it has the word one, but it's not the first word.
Speaker A:It's only two words in the title.
Speaker C:And one is the second word.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Holy.
Speaker A:You want a clue?
Speaker B:Well, that's a couple of clues, but yeah, if you got another one.
Speaker A:It's not the month.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker C:Oh, gosh.
Speaker A:It's not the day.
Speaker A:It's not the month.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:Year one.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:There's Michael Sarah saying Jack Black and Michael Sarah.
Speaker B:I have seen that one time.
Speaker D:Okay, Well, I know Red Sarah.
Speaker D:That says it.
Speaker D:Not Jack Black.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker D:I thought it was a young kid.
Speaker D:Well, the one thing he.
Speaker B:Berries and that sounds like a Sarah line.
Speaker D:Yeah, it does.
Speaker D:You know.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:You want the last one?
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker C:It's been a minute.
Speaker C:We had some pinterest and as your.
Speaker A:Reward, you won't get this one, so.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker B:Excellent.
Speaker B:My confidence is shot after the last one.
Speaker A:Well, just keep it in mind.
Speaker B:We shouldn't be able to just guess them all easy.
Speaker A:No, well, it's.
Speaker A:It's not a movie.
Speaker A:I don't know that I've ever seen the whole thing.
Speaker A:It's an old, old movie.
Speaker A:But just keep in mind it has a number in it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And the subject matter.
Speaker A:You may get it.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker A:A reasonable doubt is not a fancy phrase.
Speaker A:It means if you are not sure, you have to vote not guilty.
Speaker B:I know this one.
Speaker B:Only because I think I know it.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker C:I think I know it, too.
Speaker D:Oh, nice.
Speaker B:12 angry men.
Speaker A:I'm surprised.
Speaker A:I didn't think you would get that.
Speaker D:Well, like you said, the subject matter.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:I've only seen it once, a long time ago.
Speaker C:And there's a.
Speaker C:There's a couple of movies of 12 angry men.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:But I think there's a Broadway play going on right now, too.
Speaker C:I think Bill Burr's part of it.
Speaker C:Oh, sorry, that's Glenn Glary.
Speaker C:Glenn Ross.
Speaker C:Sorry.
Speaker A:I just recently watched that one.
Speaker C:That's a good one.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:That'd be cool to see in a.
Speaker D:A play.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:Of 12 Angry Men.
Speaker D:I mean.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Essentially.
Speaker D:That's one with the knife, right?
Speaker D:There's a knife exactly like that.
Speaker D:Oh, yeah, exactly like that.
Speaker D:And he pulls it out and it's the same.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:That's 12 anger.
Speaker B:Something like that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's a single room a long time, but sends itself up a play easily.
Speaker D:Nice.
Speaker C:Awesome.
Speaker C:That was a good.
Speaker D:I'm.
Speaker D:Those were.
Speaker C:Glad we got that one.
Speaker B:All right, that was it.
Speaker B:Sherry.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:That was.
Speaker B:Either we're out of practice or that was really tough.
Speaker B:Especially that middle one.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker B:No, no, it's good.
Speaker B:No, I.
Speaker B:We need to be challenged and stretched.
Speaker A:The first one was easy as everything, so.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I said it because I saw a lot of dead men this weekend on those.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:There was a body count on both of these.
Speaker D:All right, so the new category, like, we count up the.
Speaker D:We do a body count this movie head.
Speaker B:All right, so we ready for money?
Speaker B:Critics, fans on 13th Warrior.
Speaker B:13th Warrior.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:I kind of like this movie.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:You know, I enjoyed watching it.
Speaker B:It wasn't pain for me to watch.
Speaker B:However, this is not loved by critics.
Speaker B:33% on the Tomatometer of the critics liked it, which is bad.
Speaker B:And only 66% of the fans gave it.
Speaker B:What was it?
Speaker B:Three stars and above.
Speaker B:I think is the cutoff.
Speaker B:So 66% popcorn rating for the fans and 33% from the critics.
Speaker B:So not.
Speaker B:Not loved.
Speaker B:Now we'll get into this when we get into Road to Perdition.
Speaker B:But these movies are a flip flop of each other in terms of budget and.
Speaker B:And profit.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So I.
Speaker B:When I saw these numbers, I hadn't looked at the budget yet.
Speaker B:And so I was like, well, okay.
Speaker B:Because I didn't think it could possibly have been like a super high budget.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:But the budget on this movie was $160 million.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, and it made $60 million.
Speaker B:This movie lost $100 million.
Speaker D:But James, you said you.
Speaker D:That was from like reshoots or whatever.
Speaker D:Probably.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:So outside of whatever they paid the cast and stuff.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:This is a John McTiernan, Michael Crichton.
Speaker C:So John McTiernan, you know, all the big movies.
Speaker C:Predator, Hunt for Red October, all this stuff.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:So all those.
Speaker C: And this is: Speaker C:So John McTiernan's got this whole thing behind him.
Speaker C:Michael Crichton, who's just did Jurassic Park, Congo, all these huge things.
Speaker C:Er, er.
Speaker C:And they said that, you know, the first cut of this, of John McTiernan's was unwatchable by audiences.
Speaker C:So they did reshoots and redos and all kinds of stuff.
Speaker C:The ending scene with.
Speaker C:Or not ending scene, I guess, but the battle when he's battling the mother up in the.
Speaker C:The cave.
Speaker C:That was originally.
Speaker C:It was a disgusting looking, nasty creature.
Speaker C:Mother.
Speaker A:Yeah, she was nasty.
Speaker B:Well, yeah, but she was worse.
Speaker B:I do have an issue with that.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker C:But then they reshot it to make her more look like she does in this.
Speaker C:So it was just a lot of stuff and they didn't.
Speaker C:There's a lot of people pushing and pulling, I'm sure.
Speaker B:Well, yeah, I.
Speaker D:Too many cooks.
Speaker C:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker C:Because big heads, big chefs in the kitchen.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:On the face of it, it's got all the ingredients.
Speaker B:Michael Crrichton story, John McTiernan.
Speaker B:You know, Antonio Banderas was hot at the time.
Speaker B:It's got a lot of other good.
Speaker D:No actors.
Speaker D:Based off Crichton's book, Eaters of the Dead.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:So I'm curious to like.
Speaker D:I'd like to read the book, you know, to see.
Speaker D:I wonder what, you know, how good it is.
Speaker D:Loosely based on Beowulf.
Speaker D:Right?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:So again, okay.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It had all the things going for it.
Speaker C:That's.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:So you're part of your plot structure.
Speaker D:If you're taking Beowulf and a book, what's the problem?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, and we'll get into that.
Speaker D:But.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, it had all the ingredients and.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But I.
Speaker B:Anyway, as we get through it, I found this isn't really beat related, so I.
Speaker B:I felt like it had so much potential, but then didn't meet its potential.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, they were characters, like all the Viking Northmen characters.
Speaker B:I wanted to know more about.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Familiar faces.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Redheaded guy, I thought.
Speaker B:Because I immediately did.
Speaker B:Not for any reason, I guess maybe for Braveheart or something.
Speaker B:But I saw the redheaded Viking, I'm like, oh, yeah, I bet he's badass.
Speaker B:And we just never.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Learned anything about any of these characters, like, individually, you know.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I think that was along the lines of McTiernan's first cut was you get to.
Speaker C:It was more of an expanded world because if you're stuck 13 guys traveling for months, you're gonna know each and every one of them.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:There's some area like, who was that guy?
Speaker C:Oh, he just died.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:As they started dying, I didn't even know their names.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And didn't.
Speaker B:I guess, didn't care.
Speaker D:Well, they didn't have names.
Speaker D:It was Viking number three because.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like the first.
Speaker B:The first battle or whatever.
Speaker B:Bovine, I guess.
Speaker B:Or whatever.
Speaker B:I guess I only learned his name because he was like the king, apparently.
Speaker C:Bull wolf or.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:The big guy.
Speaker B:His name was Bovine.
Speaker B:What was it?
Speaker C:Bullwife?
Speaker B:Bull wife.
Speaker C:Oh, means like, it's Beowulf.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I didn't.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:I guess I watched it with subtitles, so that's how I got the spelling and the.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:The pronunciation.
Speaker B:Well, like, after, you know, the first battle, he's standing next to Ahmed.
Speaker B:Ibid.
Speaker B:I guess.
Speaker B:Ibid.
Speaker B:And No, I mean, son of.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And he's.
Speaker B:And he's.
Speaker B:And he's listing, like, the four that died.
Speaker B:And I'm like, well, who are they?
Speaker B:I'm trying to.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's a.
Speaker B:That's a problem.
Speaker B:Anyway, so I didn't.
Speaker A:I'm sorry.
Speaker A:I'm going to confess this.
Speaker A:I wasn't so concerned about them.
Speaker A:I was just.
Speaker A:Kept going, are they.
Speaker A:Is.
Speaker A:Is.
Speaker A:Is this Bigfoot?
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:Well, I kept going, is this a supernatural being or.
Speaker B:Well, I think that's.
Speaker B:You were led to believe that it was supernatural because then Ahmed says, they're just men.
Speaker B:They're men, you know.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:It was a big reveal.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:He realizes.
Speaker B:It was before I watched it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, before I watched it, I was unsure.
Speaker B:It's been A long time since I've seen.
Speaker D:I was unsure whether I couldn't remember.
Speaker B:Either if they were fighting Supernatural or whether was, you know.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Which I thought, you know, that that worked.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Now, this is another preliminary remark, but Antonio Banderas, you know, in his younger days still, I mean, you know, still looks pretty good.
Speaker B:You know, I'm, you know, from his early movies, like Dusted on, certainly.
Speaker B:And Desperado.
Speaker B:Desperado, yeah, yeah, Desperado.
Speaker B:I mean, just like.
Speaker B:Like him and Salma Hayek and Desperado to me are like the two prettiest people on the planet in one movie at their young crime, you know, I'm.
Speaker D:Thinking back, I'm pretty sure, like he's the reason I probably wouldn't see this movie other than like it, I think.
Speaker D:So the subject, like looking cool, right?
Speaker D:Look like a cool.
Speaker B:Swarthy and dark.
Speaker D:But yeah, Desperado had already come out.
Speaker D:I don't know if Assassin's already come out.
Speaker D:Came out the same year, but he'd already done Mask of Zorro, I think.
Speaker D:Yeah, that was 98, I think.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker D:So he'd already done those.
Speaker D:So like I said, he was on the rise.
Speaker D:So I'm like, yeah, let's go see.
Speaker D:And I'd forgotten a lot of stuff in this movie with him, and it made me remember how.
Speaker D:How much I like this guy.
Speaker D:Watching this again, that was one of the positives of watching it after so long.
Speaker D:I was like.
Speaker D:Because immediately I'm like, you know, he's making jokes.
Speaker D:And yes, like, my guy says, go with God.
Speaker D:He's like, are you listening?
Speaker B:Like, I was like, it's always the throwaway lines.
Speaker B:He's.
Speaker B:It's always enjoyable watching his character.
Speaker B:Yeah, okay.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The one character that.
Speaker A:The only character that came to mind when I was watching it was Puss in Boots.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Because of his voice.
Speaker D:You know, I jokingly told late he didn't want to with.
Speaker D:But I jokingly.
Speaker D:One of our, I guess favorite things from Puss in Boots is the.
Speaker D:The last one where they're going through the.
Speaker D:The like into the dark forest and he's.
Speaker D:He's got the dog with him.
Speaker D:The.
Speaker D:The new friend.
Speaker D:And he was like, they talk about the perils of going through here.
Speaker D:And then he kicks the dog through first, right as a test.
Speaker D:And he waits him in.
Speaker D:Then he goes, dog still alive.
Speaker D:So I told him, I said, yeah, this is really good here in a bit when he goes beowulf still alive.
Speaker D:But anyway.
Speaker B:Well, this is not a Catboy beat But I was.
Speaker B:Because I had a sheet that had catboy beats and also Writer's Journey beats on it this time.
Speaker B:And as they are actually, like, approaching and entering the cave, I'm like, oh, that's the approach to the innermost cave.
Speaker B:And it's really an innermost cave.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:No, that was nice.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I thought that was cool.
Speaker B:That's another system other than catboy that has different terms and a few more beats.
Speaker B:Different beats, but very similar.
Speaker D:For any new listeners out there, when we say Catboy, we're referring to Blake Snyder's 15.
Speaker D:15 story beats from, say, the cat.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's a book.
Speaker B:It's a way to break a story or write a story.
Speaker D:It is still the best, in my opinion.
Speaker B:15 plots that I've found.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Very efficient.
Speaker B:So if you're a writer and feel overwhelmed, the 15 beats can.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And not just for movies.
Speaker D:I use it for.
Speaker D:For books.
Speaker D:Oh, yeah, yeah, whatever.
Speaker D:Like, it's still the best way to do it.
Speaker B:It's very quick.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:That being said, are we ready for.
Speaker B:For the beats?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Well, did we talk about genre?
Speaker D:Speaking of.
Speaker B:Oh, yes, we should.
Speaker B:Because sometimes we neglect that.
Speaker B:I think, to me it's fairly obvious.
Speaker B:Maybe Monster in the house.
Speaker D:Yeah, well, that's.
Speaker D:That was my initial thoughts.
Speaker D:But I kind of thought, like, it might be due with a problem too.
Speaker D:Because if you think about it from Antonio Banderas's point of view, like, he's.
Speaker D:He's, you know, I guess, you know.
Speaker B:Other than looking at the ambassador, he's not necessarily a warrior.
Speaker D:You're right.
Speaker D:And other than, like, he's, you know, an innocent and it's thrust upon him.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:I mean, he did look at the.
Speaker D:The one chick and got exiled or whatever.
Speaker D:So I guess that was his own action.
Speaker D:But he didn't ask.
Speaker D:He was an ambassador.
Speaker D:He didn't ask to get, like, picked to be the 13th warrior to go fight this evil.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I have.
Speaker B:I have written down here, when that happens, he says.
Speaker B:He says something like, what the hell are you talking about?
Speaker C:This wouldn't be like a road trip movie.
Speaker B:Oh, that's a good point.
Speaker D:That one, too.
Speaker B:And then I forgot about the Golden Fleece.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Then I forgot to Golden Fleece because it's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Magnificent.
Speaker C:There.
Speaker D:I didn't bring mine.
Speaker D:I knew I forgot something.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You want to look it up or whatever.
Speaker D:Yeah, I was going to.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Do they have a gold fleece would cause a prize, though?
Speaker B:Or with the defeating of the monster being.
Speaker B:But yeah, Road trip.
Speaker B:Very much so.
Speaker B:Because they're on the road.
Speaker D:All right, so here.
Speaker D:Just real quick.
Speaker D:Here's do with a problem.
Speaker D:I just got to that one first.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:An innocent hero is dragged into this mess without asking for it or even aware of how he got involved.
Speaker D:A sudden event that thrust our innocent into the world of hurt is definite and comes without warning.
Speaker D:A life or death battle is at stake and the continued existence of an individual, family, group or society is in question.
Speaker B:That sounds.
Speaker B:That hits all.
Speaker B:Every one of those.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:All right.
Speaker D:Golden Fleece.
Speaker C:But I think you said like most stories are dude with a problem.
Speaker C:I mean, a good chunk.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:You could almost argument.
Speaker B:You could almost reduce it down.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Because stories are conflict.
Speaker B:And if a guy didn't have a problem.
Speaker B:What's the story?
Speaker D:Sorry.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:We can edit out slow parts.
Speaker D:There's like a section that breaks it.
Speaker D:It's at the beginning.
Speaker D:I thought it was at the end.
Speaker D:My bad.
Speaker D:All right.
Speaker D:This is Golden Fleece.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:A road spanning oceans, time or across the street.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker D:As long as it has growth.
Speaker D:It often includes a road apple that stops the trip cold.
Speaker D:A team or buddy.
Speaker D:The hero needs to guide him along the way.
Speaker D:Usually it's those who represent the things the hero doesn't have.
Speaker B:Oh, sure.
Speaker D:So skill.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Skill, experience or attitude.
Speaker D:And then a prize that sought and something primal.
Speaker D:Going home, securing a treasure or regaining a birthright.
Speaker B:Going home, probably.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:For.
Speaker B:Because at the end, Ahmed is on his way home.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Which we'll talk about that when we get to it.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:But I guess saving the village or whatever is also, I guess, surprise, right?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:He saves their way of life from being attacked.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:All right.
Speaker D:And then here's monster in the house.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:The house, I think, is probably going to be the problem.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:A monster supernatural in its power, even if its strength derives from insanity and evil at its core.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker D:A house meaning an enclosed space that can include a family unit, an entire town or the world, and then a sin someone is guilty of bringing the monster in the house.
Speaker D:A transgression that can include ignorance.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:I don't feel.
Speaker B:I don't think we have a sin.
Speaker D:They didn't have a sin.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's just there.
Speaker D:I wonder if the original Beowulf had like, had sin, because I remember going into it that this was based off Beowulf.
Speaker D:And in my mind that's a monster in the house.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:But I don't remember the.
Speaker D:The story enough to remember if it, you know, what the sin was.
Speaker B:I don't either.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I Think Beowulf predates any of these type of structure things?
Speaker D:Oh, for sure, for sure.
Speaker D:But he still may have, like, nailed it without.
Speaker C:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:Well, I think it predates, like, our modern terminology, but I'm.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Because Plato came up with the three act structure, didn't he?
Speaker B:Or when it played, one of those ancient philosophers came up.
Speaker D:I remember the name, but.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Anyway.
Speaker B:All right, so.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So are we deciding?
Speaker B:I like road trip or dude with a problem?
Speaker D:I can't talk about those philosophers.
Speaker D:I can't say it.
Speaker D:Greek.
Speaker D:Greek wise guys.
Speaker D:I don't know why I could say the word.
Speaker D:Anyhow.
Speaker D:I always think of Socrates and real genius.
Speaker B:Oh, I drank.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:His last words were I drink.
Speaker D:What?
Speaker B:Yeah, that's good.
Speaker B:All right, so.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it's either golden fleece or due to the problem.
Speaker B:I think both apply due to the problem on the road, maybe.
Speaker B:Now it's gonna be interesting when we get to road to perdition, because that's.
Speaker D:With a golden fleece problem that's got.
Speaker B:The actual word road in it.
Speaker B:So I don't know if that immediately pigeonholes.
Speaker B:And we'll get that when we get to it, I guess, but road to perdition sort of gives it away, but we'll see.
Speaker B:He's definitely got a problem.
Speaker B:Anyway, we'll talk about that when we get to it.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Anything else before we hit the beats?
Speaker D:Oh, we didn't.
Speaker D:Oh, go ahead.
Speaker D:Sure.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:No, I was just gonna say the beginning of the movie.
Speaker A:You talk about giving it so many minutes.
Speaker A:Because I really.
Speaker A:I'll be honest with y'all.
Speaker A:I didn't want to watch either one.
Speaker B:Well, she had.
Speaker B:She didn't want to watch this one.
Speaker B:And then she said she liked it.
Speaker B:And then she.
Speaker B:The whole time she's complaining about road to perdition, she.
Speaker A:I was gonna tell you.
Speaker B:Okay, go ahead.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:So in the very beginning of this movie.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:The whole language thing.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I don't like.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I do have to put the captions on.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:A lot.
Speaker A:But of course, they're speaking some.
Speaker A:I don't remember what it was.
Speaker B:Greek.
Speaker B:Greek.
Speaker B:Because the language they settled on.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So they're sitting there, and I'm like, oh, my God.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I can't.
Speaker A:I can't understand what they're saying, of course.
Speaker A:Because then.
Speaker A:You know.
Speaker A:But then I really liked how they had Antonio Banderas learn.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:What they were saying.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then all of a sudden, now they're speaking English so that we can all you know.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:When I.
Speaker B:When I first.
Speaker B:I watched it once, but in remembering.
Speaker B:Because I remembered that scene and I remember thinking, yeah, I'm gonna have to talk about that.
Speaker B:Because that's because, like, it shows him by the fire, and it looks like in a couple of minutes he learns.
Speaker B:But there is a montage of days and weeks.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Which was.
Speaker B:I was relieved about.
Speaker D:You know, I remember that scene being really cool when I saw it the first time.
Speaker D:And.
Speaker D:Same thing.
Speaker D:Like, it still held up.
Speaker D:Like, it was really, really well done.
Speaker D:Like, one of the best scenes in the movie.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:I really like what they do it.
Speaker C:I am.
Speaker A:I don't know what it is.
Speaker A:I have a hard time with accents and understanding, you know, especially when I'm watching something British or, you know, then.
Speaker A:And they.
Speaker A:Not only are.
Speaker A:They have the accent, but they have their language.
Speaker A:They're different.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Words that they, you know, there's.
Speaker D:There's certain accents that I really struggle with.
Speaker D:Like, what are they saying?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Even they're speaking English.
Speaker D:Just the accent, like.
Speaker D:And I guess that's bad on me, but I'm like, I'm having a hard time here.
Speaker A:Well, yeah, but.
Speaker A:I mean.
Speaker A:But that was one thing.
Speaker A:I was like, okay, I.
Speaker A:I, you know, I'm.
Speaker A:I'm gonna try to watch this.
Speaker A:But then as soon as they did that, I was like, okay, well, that's.
Speaker B:Why they had the role of the interpreter.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Yeah, I wanted to pull that up because what happens, they walk into that tent and the one guy speaks Greek and they find somebody who can understand Greek.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:The herger guy, the.
Speaker C:The Norse guy, he can understand Greek, but he's speaking back in Latin.
Speaker B:It sounded like some Latin.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:So there's like a cross thing, language thing of them going through it.
Speaker C:But I was gonna say, when I saw this movie, I was maybe 16.
Speaker C:Throughout my life, I've had the opportunity to learn a little bit of Swedish.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And in that scene.
Speaker C:And I totally forgotten.
Speaker C:So I was.
Speaker C:When they were talking this stuff, I'm like, I understand, like, what the hell's going on.
Speaker C:I hear them in English in my head, what the hell?
Speaker C:And when he stood up and said, I am the first man and I am the.
Speaker C:I'm like, he spoke English.
Speaker C:He's not speaking English.
Speaker C:Yeah, I am understanding.
Speaker C:Sweet.
Speaker C:How is he speaking?
Speaker C:In my mind?
Speaker C:Blown for, like, half a minute.
Speaker C:Because in my brain, I heard him speak English.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, to me.
Speaker B:To me, even.
Speaker B:I was surprised when they even settled in Greek.
Speaker B:I'm like, these were like, Norse Guys.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Why wouldn't it be Swedish or.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker C:It's a bit of everything because.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And then to.
Speaker B:And then to sort of grapple with.
Speaker B:Okay, well, we always think of fighting Vikings as maybe big bruisers, but here they understand different languages, so, you know, maybe Vikings weren't as dumb as we thought.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker C:You know, they traveled everywhere.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker C:So yeah, just.
Speaker C:It was really, really cool.
Speaker D:Just on a good draw sounds, though.
Speaker C:No, it was confusing.
Speaker D:We didn't talk about the.
Speaker D:The.
Speaker D:The writers outside of Crichton.
Speaker D:So the guys that wrote the script where I made a note.
Speaker D:William Wisher and David Self.
Speaker D:Sorry, wrong movie.
Speaker D:William Wisher.
Speaker B:They're both w.
Speaker B:Names I think I remember.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Warren Lewis and William Wisher.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:David Sells the other guy for perdition.
Speaker D:Um, William Wisher is.
Speaker D:He worked on Terminator 1 and 2 with Cameron.
Speaker B:Really?
Speaker D:On the story.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D: one when Arnold is fighting T: Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And as he gets up, there's that guy just standing there taking pictures.
Speaker D:Yeah, that's him.
Speaker D:That's actually.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:And then.
Speaker B:Sorry, I wanted to give you one of these, man.
Speaker B:Yeah, we'll edit that trump.
Speaker B:Oh, the trumpet work too, though, you know.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Thought you'd change the sound up.
Speaker C:Yeah, man, he wrote a bunch of stuff.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:Just.
Speaker D:That's what I remember.
Speaker D:What else.
Speaker D:What else do you do?
Speaker D:I just remembered him from that.
Speaker C:Oh, well, he.
Speaker C:He wrote that.
Speaker C:The weird Exorcist movie.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:The one where there's two versions of it.
Speaker C:Exorcist, the Beginning and E.C.
Speaker C:dominion, prequel to Exorcist.
Speaker C:It's the same movie edited two different ways.
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker C:It's confusing, but yeah.
Speaker C:Terminators Live Free, Die Hard, Judge Dread Lone version.
Speaker B:Yeah, I've seen that.
Speaker B:I've seen a lot of his movies then.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:You might know them from Nightmare on Elm Street.
Speaker C:Dream warriors.
Speaker C:Huh?
Speaker C:How about that?
Speaker C:So he's been.
Speaker C:He's written some stuff.
Speaker B:Crazy.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker C:Yeah, that.
Speaker C:Sorry.
Speaker C:That Exorcist movie always confused me because I knew there was two versions and one of them is crappy.
Speaker C:The second one is even crappier.
Speaker B:Well, there's.
Speaker B:There's a.
Speaker B:We've talked about this before.
Speaker B:There's a Mel Gibson movie, I can't remember the name of it, where the director's cut, it looks like a completely different movie and is terrible.
Speaker B:And then you watch Mel Gibson's cut and it's Amazing.
Speaker C:It was a payback.
Speaker C:Payback, yeah.
Speaker D:Oh yes, yes, payback.
Speaker D:And I really like the Brian Helgeland as the writer director and I really like him.
Speaker D:Like he did Knights Tale and LA Confidential.
Speaker D:So the guy chops.
Speaker D:So I just.
Speaker D:It's.
Speaker D:But his version of payback is just so bleak and so.
Speaker D:Yeah, like Mel Gibson's made it fun.
Speaker B:Oh yeah, it's absolutely a fun movie.
Speaker B:And it's hard to find the Mel Gibson version now.
Speaker B:Like it.
Speaker D:It is, it really is.
Speaker D:Which is so dumb.
Speaker D:Just put them both on there.
Speaker D:Like put, you know, whatever format you're selling, put them, put both versions on there and be done with it.
Speaker D:The other guy, Warren Lewis, he wrote the biggest thing that I've noticed is Black Rain.
Speaker B:I really like that.
Speaker D:So these writers have some chops.
Speaker D:So again I'm confused about and I guess even disappointed about how ultimately how this movie turned out because it should have.
Speaker D:Story wise, it should have hit every, you know.
Speaker D:Yeah, every beat and every, you know, should have knocked it out of the park.
Speaker D:Well, granted there's probably versions out there of these guys scripts.
Speaker D:That is probably fucking amazing.
Speaker B:This surprised me and I can't remember now.
Speaker B:You'll probably know whether it was Gladiator 1 or 2, but like when they started film, I think it was maybe Gladiator one that I like when they started filming, they had like 23 pages of actual script.
Speaker D:I read that recently.
Speaker D:I'm like, what?
Speaker B:Yes, they had 23 page.
Speaker D:So and that turned out the way it did.
Speaker D:That's amazing.
Speaker B:It was frustrating to the actors and everybody because they ran out of.
Speaker B:They ran out of colors.
Speaker D:Yep.
Speaker B:I read that because every time you change that.
Speaker D:Did I maybe.
Speaker B:Yeah, maybe I did.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:They ran out of colors.
Speaker B:Like so in the screenplay deal, every time they make a change, the page gets changed to a different color.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:And there's like 12 colors.
Speaker B:So they ran out of colors and they were having to put like colored strips on pages to keep track of what was the current page.
Speaker D:And so so they'd slide them underneath the actors doors at night.
Speaker D:Here's the new pages for the next.
Speaker B:Three or four times a day.
Speaker B:The lines you just memorized were no longer even in the movie.
Speaker B:And here's the change.
Speaker A:Wait a minute.
Speaker A:How many pages did they have at the beginning?
Speaker B:23 something.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And how many pages do you normally have in a script?
Speaker D:Oh, like 20.
Speaker C:A page a minute?
Speaker D:Yeah, a page a minute.
Speaker D:So they had the first half an hour.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:And that movie, that's all they had.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:Two and a half hours.
Speaker C:They just said swords and sandals.
Speaker C:Russell Crowe.
Speaker C:Here's a check.
Speaker C:Go.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And so it is amazing that it came out.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:As well as it.
Speaker C:That was what?
Speaker C:Ridley Scott.
Speaker C:And this is John McTiernan.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's.
Speaker D:Whoa.
Speaker D:Shots.
Speaker C:No, I mean, like Ridley Scott, he just got his thing.
Speaker C:This movie had a whole bunch of people.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Getting.
Speaker D:Well, no, but you were clearly rating Scott higher.
Speaker C:And then McTiernan, he's had more experience with crazy movies.
Speaker C:I think maybe not saying I disagree.
Speaker D:Just made me laugh, that's all.
Speaker C:McTiernan was probably like, oh, you want to.
Speaker C:Oh, you want to do this too?
Speaker C:Oh, this.
Speaker C:You.
Speaker D:Boom.
Speaker C:Here's my movie.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, didn't Spielberg and all that.
Speaker B:They weren't.
Speaker B:Weren't they writing pages of Jaws like the night before they filmed or something?
Speaker C:Well, they were having to film around a animatronic thing.
Speaker D:Yeah, the shark was.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker D:Shark wouldn't work.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:And they filmed it like on the ocean.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:In a lot.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:And somebody had told me that, don't do that.
Speaker D:Don't do that.
Speaker B:And I think he was told.
Speaker B:But like, no, we got.
Speaker D:No, we got it.
Speaker D:I'm young.
Speaker D:This.
Speaker D:I can get it.
Speaker D:And then.
Speaker D:Yeah, I'm sure he told everybody afterward.
Speaker D:Oh, you're doing a movie on the water.
Speaker D:Studio, studio.
Speaker C:Right, right.
Speaker D:Don't it up.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:You're not me.
Speaker D:It's not gonna work out.
Speaker C:James Cameron was like, what do you think?
Speaker C:Spielberg in a big studio in a big tank.
Speaker D:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:You build that boat life size and you sink it in the studio.
Speaker D:That's gonna cost a lot of money.
Speaker D:I know, but it'll cost you a lot more if you got out in the seas.
Speaker D:Oh, why?
Speaker B:Why can't I get a steady shot?
Speaker D:Right?
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:All right, anything.
Speaker B:Anything else going once.
Speaker B:Okay, let's hit the Beats and we can bring this in, you know.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:The Beats opening image.
Speaker B:Now, several times throughout this movie, I thought the Beats were weak.
Speaker B:I'll just put that out there.
Speaker B:I don't think there was enough development.
Speaker B:Exiled from his country to a region the exact opposite of everything he has ever known.
Speaker B:So he's basically going from a desert warm environment to the north.
Speaker B:The Northmen, you know, he was a poet.
Speaker C:Life of luxury.
Speaker C:Well, not luxury, but life of ease.
Speaker B:Ease and privilege.
Speaker B:And a poet.
Speaker B:Not certainly any kind of fighter or.
Speaker C:Physical actor or diplomat or anything he gets put at.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:The opening image is a jump in time and the material leading up to the Fun and Games is a prologue.
Speaker B:I have.
Speaker B:Because we initially see him on the boat on the way, and then we get this backstory, and then we pick up again.
Speaker C:That could have easily been edited out.
Speaker C:Him on the boat being uncomfortable.
Speaker C:They could have just taken that right out and just started.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:In the desert.
Speaker B:Well, that's.
Speaker D:That's in.
Speaker D:The graphics were shit anyway.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Real bad.
Speaker D:I didn't remember that because it was rough.
Speaker B:The amount of material we get for his offense at being sent off is nothing.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Weak sauce.
Speaker D:We give us a better.
Speaker B:She walks by and looks at him, and then the old crone of a husband, apparently that's married to this young, beautiful woman, is whispering in the king's ear.
Speaker B:And off he goes.
Speaker D:Yeah, Mummy did it.
Speaker D:Much better.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Show us.
Speaker B:Take 20 minutes and show us the intrigue and the tragedy of this guy.
Speaker D:Because at the same time, they give us an opening image of this fucking guy and how he is a poet and not a warrior.
Speaker D:They could have done all that stuff and shown.
Speaker D:Yeah, he wasn't a fighter.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:That.
Speaker D:That's his growth.
Speaker D:He becomes a fighter or whatever.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:So, yeah, they could all.
Speaker D:That did not.
Speaker C:So I thought that was a missed opportunity.
Speaker C:For sure.
Speaker D:For sure.
Speaker B:Now.
Speaker B:So if we're talking about opening image, obviously, the closing image should be a bookmark.
Speaker B:Now it is on a boat.
Speaker B:And on a boat at the end, he's on a boat going back home, and it's not a storm.
Speaker B:And, you know.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:I didn't think since the boat was in the storm was out of order.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:The only thing I came up with was, okay, either the one quick shot we get of him being exiled in the, you know, the land of luxury or whatever.
Speaker D:I was like, okay, is that.
Speaker D:Is because that's before.
Speaker D:Or it was a little bit later.
Speaker D:But when he's first there, when he sees the.
Speaker D:The Viking funeral, it's a little bit late, but the first time he sees the Viking funeral.
Speaker D:Yeah, because he's, like, appalled.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:And disgusted by it.
Speaker B:Does the woman get burned up?
Speaker B:Like, she.
Speaker D:Yeah, but it was very confusing, like, because they said he.
Speaker D:She's gonna join her, but I didn't see them, like, toss her in there.
Speaker D:I didn't hear.
Speaker D:But, yeah, she definitely died with him.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:That was part of the custom.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:So that.
Speaker D:Which by his face, I'm like, all right, we didn't see that very well.
Speaker D:But that's got to be what happened.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:That's why he's appalled.
Speaker D:But he goes from being Appalled to participating in it down the road.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Because he helps.
Speaker D:So to me, like, trying to find.
Speaker B:Was there a woman that went with.
Speaker D:There was no woman that would have been.
Speaker D:Again, if you match the Beats up, that would have been better.
Speaker D:But he's Helps carry.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:Bullwhip or whatever his name is.
Speaker D:What's his name?
Speaker B:Bullwhip Wife.
Speaker D:Bull Wife.
Speaker D:There's no wife, but Bull Wife.
Speaker D:Yeah, he.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Just again reaching for.
Speaker D:Trying to find.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker D:You know, opening closing images.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And looking for growth.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:It is before and after.
Speaker D:Well, and that's from being appalled to participating.
Speaker D:I'm like, all right, I guess.
Speaker B:I guess.
Speaker B:And maybe from being a poet to a warrior.
Speaker B:Warrior poet.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:But then.
Speaker B:Then he gets exiled, which obviously was unjust because of this thing.
Speaker B:And then he's going back, I guess, home.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:But we don't know if he's going back to like, reclaim this woman that he.
Speaker B:We think maybe he loved you guys.
Speaker D:We were talking about the prize, right.
Speaker D:For it being looking at the beats or the genre.
Speaker D:So by doing this stuff with these guys, you got the right to go home.
Speaker D:Like, that was.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:You get a letter saying he on.
Speaker C:Back home or he wasn't exiled.
Speaker C:He's an ambassador.
Speaker C:He was promoted to ambassador.
Speaker B:Promoted.
Speaker C:They wanted him to go up there to.
Speaker C:With the rough people and die.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:And now he's coming back home.
Speaker C:Hey, I ain't dead.
Speaker C:And I can speak this Nordic language.
Speaker B:And I got skills.
Speaker D:And I got skills in the story.
Speaker B:But we never get any of that.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:No, you're right.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:It's James Guy, but I.
Speaker D:Not even a statement, like.
Speaker B:Not even a statement like, you guys are warriors now.
Speaker B:I'm a warrior, and I'm going to go reclaim what's mine.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:And again, so.
Speaker D:Because I just thought about this, like, the last thing we see is him writing the.
Speaker D:The whole story right down.
Speaker D:So.
Speaker D:So again, for an open that's closing.
Speaker D:Make an opening image of him writing love letters to this or something that's meaningless and not, you know, nobody's gonna remember because now he's writing stuff that people remember or could have.
Speaker D:Could have done that or pull up.
Speaker B:And throw moment from the train.
Speaker B:Like, he's a poet, but he's got writer's block.
Speaker B:He can't.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:He doesn't have any story to write.
Speaker D:Because he hasn't experienced, because he's not.
Speaker B:Yes, I want to be a poet and.
Speaker B:Well, you.
Speaker B:You got to do something to be a poet.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And Maybe So.
Speaker B:So maybe here we go.
Speaker B:Rewriting.
Speaker B:But maybe he's like always do that in In Arabia who can't get anything published or nobody takes him seriously or he's.
Speaker B:His parents are ashamed of him because he doesn't work something.
Speaker C:So you're saying that like I like.
Speaker D:The idea that he can't write.
Speaker C:Look into the thing of better to be a warrior writing poetry than a poet in a war.
Speaker C:Like that's your through line.
Speaker B:Could be.
Speaker C:Yeah, but like go out and live life, young man.
Speaker B:Now he has something if he has.
Speaker D:This life luxury and always doing his pining after people that.
Speaker D:That aren't his.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:And yeah, like freaking because he's not doing anything.
Speaker D:I like that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Aladdin in the movie the guys are street urchin and it sees the princess.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I mean, did it better.
Speaker D:I mean, Laden was more productive though than this guy.
Speaker D:But yeah.
Speaker B:Anyway.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So there are things that could be done.
Speaker B:So I think that the beginning.
Speaker B:Because the rule is anything you want in the third act, you got to put in the first act.
Speaker B:And I don't think they had enough in the first act.
Speaker B:So the third act I thought ended week.
Speaker D:They had a boat.
Speaker B:They did have a boat, you know.
Speaker B:Anyway.
Speaker B:All right, so that's, that's my opening image.
Speaker B:And you know, the opening image is the opening image.
Speaker B:And the first time we see him is on a boat in the rain and we get the story.
Speaker B:But I thought, I thought it was weak and.
Speaker B:Any other thoughts on.
Speaker B:On that?
Speaker B:I think we covered that.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:No, I guess he would have to be on the boat for the closing image to be on the boat because like I had said otherwise they just cut that.
Speaker C:Him on the boat being uncomfortable at the very beginning.
Speaker C:Cut that right out.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Because it made no sense.
Speaker B:And, and then.
Speaker B:But that's the boat.
Speaker D:Like it's.
Speaker D:It's.
Speaker D:Because it jumps time, right?
Speaker D:Like that's.
Speaker D:So have him on the boat when he first came over there when he's first exiled or sent.
Speaker D:Right?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:If you got your opening closing images.
Speaker D:Because this is him going back all happy and writing some shit down.
Speaker D:Have him show him what he looked like when he came over.
Speaker D:He's got to be pissed off.
Speaker D:He's got to be sure.
Speaker B:Nope, no, nothing.
Speaker B:And, and, and, and he's going back and it's on a boat, but we don't know why or what he's going to do.
Speaker B:And then we get this snippet of him writing.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:But as a conclusion to his story, it's Weak, you know?
Speaker B:Anyway.
Speaker B:All right, set up, set up.
Speaker B:Usually first 10 to 15 minutes.
Speaker B:He has incurred the jealousy of a husband of a beautiful woman who caught her eye.
Speaker B:And she his ordered to be the ambassador to a land well to the north of his homeland.
Speaker B:Flees from raiders.
Speaker B:Okay, so they're.
Speaker B:So he's journeying in this north country now with his advisor, Sage.
Speaker B:Whatever.
Speaker B:And so he's traveling with them, and raiders come over the hill, and they're told to flee, and he doesn't want to flee.
Speaker B:And then a boat comes.
Speaker B:Who are the Northmen?
Speaker B:And they want to flee from them.
Speaker B:And he's.
Speaker B:And he actually says, I'm an ambassador, Dem, and I'm supposed to talk to people.
Speaker B:So he's exiled, but he's taking this ambassador job pretty seriously.
Speaker B:Like, look, I was sent here to do a job, which kind of seems strange to me.
Speaker B:No, you were sent there to die, like James said, because you incurred the wrath of this lech who is married to this beautiful woman, you know?
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:But he.
Speaker B:He is taking, so that.
Speaker B:And that shows that he's a man of honor.
Speaker B:Like, I was sent to do a job, I'm gonna do a job.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:But I don't know that that was set up, you know?
Speaker D:Yeah, it wasn't, in my opinion.
Speaker D:That's in there so that we like him, you know?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:But if he.
Speaker D:If we don't know a whole lot about him and he's in there and he starts off bitching and moaning.
Speaker D:I don't want to talk to people.
Speaker D:I don't want to do this.
Speaker D:We're probably not gonna like them right away, you know?
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:If you don't know anything about him and, like, first thing we learn about him is he's fucking bitching and moaning, and there's no set.
Speaker D:You know, the setup is the way it is.
Speaker D:Not proper.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:We're not gonna, like, immediately.
Speaker B:Well, unless we're on his side because of the injustice that was.
Speaker D:You gotta explain that.
Speaker D:I was saying, if they leave it the way it is, where it's not really explained, and then he's bitching and moaning as opposed to.
Speaker D:I'm.
Speaker D:I was supposed to talk to people, damn it.
Speaker D:Then, you know.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:That's my guess, anyways, that it just makes.
Speaker D:It makes it more like he meets.
Speaker B:With the leader of the Northmen from the boat.
Speaker B:He wants to meet with them, but the guy tells him, well, that's gonna be a problem because he's dead.
Speaker B:The encampment.
Speaker B:This encampment, the reason the boat Pulled over is the old king's funeral.
Speaker B:A child messenger arrives from another kingdom.
Speaker B:From the Northman's homeland, I'm assuming.
Speaker B:I guess it's the same homeland.
Speaker B:Asking the new king for help.
Speaker B:The child's homeland is being ravished by an evil that should not be named.
Speaker B:And here's where we get to set up that.
Speaker B:It's some kind of spiritual, not man thing.
Speaker B:An oracle is called.
Speaker B:And she uses her divination to determine that 13 men must go to fight 12 volunteers, but one of them must not be a Northman.
Speaker B:Well, actually, that's what I have as my catalyst.
Speaker B:But an oracle is called Jesus Divination to determine that 13 men must go to fight this evil.
Speaker B:Then 12 volunteers.
Speaker B:So that's.
Speaker B:That leaves us.
Speaker B:That's the setup.
Speaker B:In my opinion, it's.
Speaker B:So we get the picture of what's going on here.
Speaker D:Yeah, no, I had the same.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I always.
Speaker C:Always thought, like, if I was put in that position, just how damn convenient.
Speaker C:12 of you guys and just one outsider.
Speaker C:And I just happened to get here.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:You know, come on, lady.
Speaker B:I went along with it, but it's almost.
Speaker B:It really ran up to the border of.
Speaker B:Well, because the writer needs it to happen.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Kind of situation.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker D:Like to hide it better.
Speaker D:They could have made it.
Speaker D:One of the other guys, right?
Speaker D:The.
Speaker D:The guy that he's talking to.
Speaker D:The.
Speaker D:The.
Speaker C:His translator fell.
Speaker D:Yeah, they could have made it.
Speaker D:Him.
Speaker D:And then the guy dies or something.
Speaker D:And then.
Speaker D:Oh, now it's got to be.
Speaker B:Well, yeah, he's so.
Speaker B:He's old and.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And can't go until.
Speaker B:Ahmed reluctantly.
Speaker B:You know, I don't.
Speaker D:It makes me.
Speaker D:This kind of thing, Terminator.
Speaker D:Um, and it's.
Speaker D:It plays fine the way it is, but like, once I learned that originally, like in the original draft, Reese and another guy, like, two guys are supposed to go through and to deal with Terminator.
Speaker D:That makes way more sense to send two guys.
Speaker B:Yeah, but.
Speaker D:And just.
Speaker D:He had to cut it because Budget.
Speaker D:All that stuff.
Speaker D:But like, two guys went through and then they can't control where they appear.
Speaker D:And the guy, like, materialized like on a fence or something and died.
Speaker B:Oh, okay.
Speaker D:That would have been so much better.
Speaker D:So much more sense.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Because he was obviously against the odds.
Speaker D:So this kind of thing always makes me think of that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:You know, but.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Anyhow, anyway, so the catalyst I'm showing is the Oracle says the 13th Warrior cannot be a Northman.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker D:What the hell are you talking about?
Speaker B:Yeah, the debate.
Speaker B:That's all I Have for the debate.
Speaker B:What the hell are you saying?
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:He didn't try to run.
Speaker D:He didn't try to.
Speaker D:You know.
Speaker B:Yes, there was no.
Speaker B:Yeah, right.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Well, where's he gonna go?
Speaker D:I don't know, but some sort of.
Speaker D:Yeah, take the old guy.
Speaker C:I mean, these guys are hawking and spitting and washing and the whole water bowl situation is.
Speaker B:No, no, thank you.
Speaker B:Just wait.
Speaker D:He.
Speaker D:He liked it away.
Speaker C:He was about to do it, and somebody.
Speaker C:They bust in.
Speaker B:Yeah, he was.
Speaker D:Oh.
Speaker C:Drinking it.
Speaker C:Spitting it.
Speaker B:Oh, well, I mean, now I saw that, and I'm.
Speaker D:That's how you get diseases.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:But it.
Speaker B:For some reason, it reminded me of the Alamo with John Wayne, because these guys, you know, as a warrior class, lived and died next to each other.
Speaker B:And so there's a line in the Alamo with John Wayne where he says about his.
Speaker B:Davy Crockett, and he says about his men.
Speaker B:Sure, they're dirty and they stinky, but they.
Speaker B:They sell.
Speaker B:They smell sweet to me, you know, so this whole spitting in the water and everything, like they've traded blood before, so.
Speaker B:Yeah, I got the idea.
Speaker B:Well, you know, they.
Speaker B:They don't have a problem with it.
Speaker C:Probably made them healthier overall.
Speaker C:Not gonna lie.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Everybody has the same immunity to everything.
Speaker C:Nobody.
Speaker C:No one person's gonna go off and get sick.
Speaker D:You've probably been another opportunity for growth, too.
Speaker D:He's again, disgusted by it.
Speaker D:And then show him.
Speaker D:Embrace it later on, like before the last battle or something.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Spit in my mouth.
Speaker C:What?
Speaker B:Swap.
Speaker B:Spit in the shower.
Speaker B:Now, that being said, I mean, you're in the mud, in the muck with these guys, and their blood's getting on you and.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it's almost a little, you know, delicate to not want to use the water.
Speaker B:But it did point to his being of a place of privilege.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:As opposed to down in the muck, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, all right.
Speaker B:So the catalyst.
Speaker B:What are you saying?
Speaker B:The debate.
Speaker B:What are you saying?
Speaker B:Break into two.
Speaker B:They make fun of his horse.
Speaker B:Think his name is.
Speaker B:Is Eben, son of.
Speaker B:They mount up and ride north.
Speaker B:Having crossed into their world and into the adventure.
Speaker B:He crosses into their language as well, over a montage of listening to them speak.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:He rides off on his dog.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Which I.
Speaker B:I thought was.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I liked.
Speaker B:I enjoyed that scene where he shows them what his dog can do, you know.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Dog can jump.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Now, I thought about that, and it's kind of borne out in other scenes, but these Norsemen are big, basically.
Speaker B:They're tanks.
Speaker B:You know, they're armored tanks and.
Speaker B:And he is more of a scalpel, more of a.
Speaker B:And he does this with his sword.
Speaker B:He grinds it down and makes a Arabian scimitar cemetery light.
Speaker B:It's almost like versus light inference versus heavy infantry.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's more lithe.
Speaker B:His horse is more lithe.
Speaker B:His sword is more life, you know, and yet effective, you know.
Speaker B:So I did kind of buy.
Speaker B:I did kind of like that.
Speaker B:I thought that was done kind of well, the B story.
Speaker B:I did not have a B story.
Speaker B:There are elements of change and I guess it would have to be maybe one of the Northmen, maybe.
Speaker D:I wrote Bull Wife, but yeah, I.
Speaker B:Was about to say bull Life, but.
Speaker D:Then not a whole lot came.
Speaker C:Story is not that nurse lady who nurses his face back.
Speaker B:Well, we could talk about that because what happened to her?
Speaker C:Lost in the edit probably.
Speaker B:Lost in the edit.
Speaker D:She like did this weird goodbye thing.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, I thought that was powerful because women, even in like, you want.
Speaker D:To look at a man, Native Americans, they will.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's a good day to die.
Speaker B:And they fully expect that they will die.
Speaker B:But it still hurts.
Speaker B:So she is.
Speaker B:You know, I thought that was done well.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:But again, if you want to talk about growth, okay.
Speaker B:He got exiled because he couldn't be with this woman.
Speaker B:But now he comes to this land and finds.
Speaker D:Yeah, a woman should have been some other dude's chick again.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:To have more strife or something.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Or a fucking widow or something.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Something to play off of the.
Speaker D:Like you're saying of the.
Speaker D:The forbidden woman or whatever.
Speaker B:Because when he's.
Speaker B:When at the end of the movie when he's sailing away, I'm like, what about this woman that they.
Speaker B:He slept with and that they love?
Speaker B:They love each other.
Speaker D:Cute.
Speaker D:I would stick around.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, with you.
Speaker D:Something.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So that.
Speaker D:That whole storyline with her and go, look what I got.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, and why not stay there?
Speaker B:Now this.
Speaker B:He got exiled from his people.
Speaker B:Now he's found a new people.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:At the end of Dance with Wolves or Avatar or Last Samurai, they don't ride back to the.
Speaker B:You know, you see that I become part of their.
Speaker D:Their new family.
Speaker D:They don't ride off and go back to the old one.
Speaker C:No, no, damn, that's a good point.
Speaker B:So I thought that was because toward the end of the movie, especially when he's riding away, I'm like, well, wait.
Speaker D:A minute, where are you going?
Speaker B:Where's.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker B:Anyway.
Speaker D:Yeah, so I feel like she's love story, but she's not B story.
Speaker D:Which.
Speaker D:Because the B story has to make.
Speaker D:They have the theme.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:They make you, you know, make the.
Speaker D:The main character change and grow.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:So I feel like Bullwhip.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Affected him more than.
Speaker B:I think so.
Speaker B:I think so.
Speaker B:And he changed them a little bit, you know, because they Arab, you know, whatever.
Speaker B:They're friends at the end or whatever.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:A theme stated.
Speaker B:I never did find one.
Speaker B:Did y'all have any?
Speaker C:No.
Speaker C:You know, not at all.
Speaker B:I didn't either.
Speaker C:I went to take notes on this thing and it was so squishy, I didn't know where it was.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because you're looking for a statement chick.
Speaker D:That'S not your wife.
Speaker D:That's.
Speaker D:That's the theme I got out of it.
Speaker D:Don't look at the.
Speaker D:The chick that's not yours.
Speaker B:Because it could have been.
Speaker B:Had it been developed in any kind of way.
Speaker B:It could have been.
Speaker B:You know, what is the country?
Speaker B:Is it where.
Speaker B:The place where you're born or the place where you.
Speaker B:You find a family and kindred.
Speaker B:You know, you've been exiled from a country.
Speaker B:But that country wasn't yours.
Speaker B:This is your country now.
Speaker B:And that Bullwhip.
Speaker B:Or somebody could have said that as they finished this adventure.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:You can leave and go back to a country that doesn't want you, or you can stay with a country that does with your new brothers and your new wife.
Speaker B:You know what I'm saying?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Or even if he was like, from.
Speaker C:Exile to a home, but really, is it a home?
Speaker C:Just nomadic Viking culture that raids and kill it, you know?
Speaker D:Well, it's just people, I guess.
Speaker D:But.
Speaker D:Yeah, but like, even if he was like a jester or something before, like writing jokes for the.
Speaker D:The wealthy and stuff.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Stuff of no meaning.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:I feel like they could play with that a lot because he's.
Speaker D:He's writing stuff.
Speaker D:Someone be remembered.
Speaker D:Like he's writing more important stuff at the end.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:So it'd have to be the opposite of that.
Speaker B:There was so much that they could have done on each end and maybe.
Speaker B:Maybe.
Speaker B:You know, I bet James is right.
Speaker B:It got lost in the edits.
Speaker B:I bet you I would be very surprised if the book.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:With looking at these writers that we talked about in their track records.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:There had to be something in there that was.
Speaker B:That they weren't allowed on set and the director was lopping off pages and.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, that ain't going to work.
Speaker B:Give me a new page.
Speaker B:And the script consultant is.
Speaker B:Okay, well, how about this so, yeah, do that.
Speaker C:I don't.
Speaker D:Right, right.
Speaker B:Anyway, fun and games.
Speaker B:This.
Speaker B:This should be fairly easy because it should be the bulk of the movie.
Speaker B:And I think it was showing off his dog.
Speaker B:I like that scene riding on the boat.
Speaker B:Rough seas, mists.
Speaker B:Now the miss arrows and land thing, I thought was actually pretty cool.
Speaker B:Shooting the arrows into the mist that were on fire and hearing them sizzle out in the water so they could find land.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:When he was calling out to see about the echo.
Speaker B:Yeah, I thought that was very cool.
Speaker B:I thought that worked well.
Speaker B:Riding on the boat, rough seas, arrows and land.
Speaker B:I cannot lift this.
Speaker B:The sword grow stronger.
Speaker B:I thought that.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Every doesn't though.
Speaker C:Except, yeah, he cuts it down.
Speaker B:Well.
Speaker D:Yeah, I like the cutting down thing.
Speaker D:I think it's cool.
Speaker D:Except for it, like the.
Speaker D:It doesn't clash with.
Speaker D:He was a poet.
Speaker D:He's not a warrior.
Speaker D:But he knows how to handle that.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:Yeah, there's no, no practicing.
Speaker B:Like in, in, in Zorro, there's a whole scene with.
Speaker D:I was getting knocked away.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker C:In a previous life, he was Zoro.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:And Puss in Boots.
Speaker D:Yeah, of course.
Speaker B:Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker D:I'm Rose.
Speaker D:And say no.
Speaker B:The Northmen are hammers.
Speaker B:Ahmed is the scalpel in stature, horse and weapon.
Speaker B:I'd mentioned that.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And so they change him, but he changes them a little bit, showing that, okay, you're a hammer, but, you know, light and, and, and efficient.
Speaker B:Can be just as.
Speaker B:Because he's able to whack the fence post in.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Because he misses and falls down in there and gets all mad and.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:And they make for him even for that.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Is.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Give an Arab a sword and of course you're gonna turn into a knife.
Speaker D:Yeah, right.
Speaker B:Yeah, something like that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:One line that I liked was, hey, when you're dead, can I give that to my sister?
Speaker A:See, I wish.
Speaker B:Because that's.
Speaker B:That's what you get with like, you know, big burly men making, you know, just all over you with these guys.
Speaker D:Right?
Speaker D:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker B:That's what you want.
Speaker D:Rottery this.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:And he.
Speaker D:Yeah, wasn't used to that.
Speaker B:I mean, that guy's talking shit to him.
Speaker B:But, you know, he will die for you, you know.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:That needed to be.
Speaker D:That's how he reveals.
Speaker D:Because they're talking shit about his mom.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:This one's mother or whatever.
Speaker D:And that's how he reveals.
Speaker D:He can hear.
Speaker B:At least I knew my father.
Speaker B:I wanted more of that.
Speaker B:Because that's what you Expect.
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker B:Yeah, camaraderie, man.
Speaker B:You know, the.
Speaker B:Anyway, meeting the king, which, you know this.
Speaker B:They're basically hovel down in the mud.
Speaker B:The situations are poorly defended, poorly manned.
Speaker B:You know, you can't keep a cow out of this place.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I thought there were some gems of lines I thought in this movie.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Which, you know, to James's point, probably got lost in edits, you know, a lot of good stuff.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:There was one scene, the scene where they're swimming out onto the.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Did he say something about, well, we'll know if there's a.
Speaker A:Something on the other side if they don't follow us?
Speaker A:Is that what he said?
Speaker D:Yeah, because.
Speaker D:Because they didn't know how far they had to swim.
Speaker D:So he goes, well, no, it's a mistake if they don't follow us.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:That was.
Speaker A:I was having a hard time breathing.
Speaker B:Yeah, there was.
Speaker B:I mean, there was a lot of.
Speaker D:That whole cave stuff was really good.
Speaker B:There was a lot of potential for this movie that I think probably at some point existed.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker B:Anyway, the situation is dire.
Speaker B:Some questions as to the king's sanity and the veracity of the threat.
Speaker B:So they get there and now they're not even sure that this is real.
Speaker B:This guy seems like he's insane.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Did we just come all this way for nothing?
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:What plays this place?
Speaker D:Old man.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:There's a lot of Game of Thrones cast members in this thing.
Speaker B:Is there?
Speaker D:Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker D:I just noticed that like the.
Speaker D:The king's wife or whatever, the younger wife, she was.
Speaker D:She was a wife to one of the guys that was fighting for the throne.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker D:Stannis's wife.
Speaker D:And then Blackfish is.
Speaker C:Yeah, he wasn't.
Speaker C:That.
Speaker B:That's cool.
Speaker B:A traumatized child distilling fun and games, lending credulity of the threat.
Speaker B:Perhaps he arrives with this story and I did find it.
Speaker B:I thought it was cool, you know, these standing there at the boat, they're letting it.
Speaker B:They're letting them see him, you know, so that they don't think he's a ghost or something.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Which.
Speaker D:Yeah, I just.
Speaker D:I wish they explained that more.
Speaker B:Yeah, sure.
Speaker B:No, absolutely.
Speaker D:Again, it just lends to the.
Speaker D:The belief that like once we.
Speaker D:They get to the.
Speaker D:The village and you know, the supernatural stuff.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:This kid was standing there for hours on end.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Because they see shit.
Speaker D:All right, Maybe there is some supernatural stuff.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:Messing up this village or whatever.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:They investigate and they find a slaughter.
Speaker B:They have been gnawed upon.
Speaker B:Not by man.
Speaker A:God.
Speaker B:It Is said they eat the dead.
Speaker B:The name of Crichton's book.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Eaters the dead.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:They find the trail.
Speaker B:A mysterious figure watches.
Speaker B:Do they call him the Endor?
Speaker B:What was the name?
Speaker B:I thought they call them.
Speaker B:It seemed.
Speaker D:I don't know.
Speaker A:But that's one reason.
Speaker B:Watching from the trees, I thought it.
Speaker A:Was Bigfoot because I'm like.
Speaker D:It was indoor.
Speaker D:It looked like indoor where they were at.
Speaker B:No, I thought they call them something and I didn't catch it and I didn't put the tub tunnels on.
Speaker B:Do they.
Speaker B:What do they call these bear creatures?
Speaker D:We below?
Speaker D:No, not we below.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, something like that.
Speaker B:I don't know why I thought.
Speaker D:Think James is looking it up?
Speaker C:Yeah, I do.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker D:Did anyone else notice?
Speaker D:I don't know.
Speaker D:That kept on.
Speaker D:But during that scene in particular, like as they're going in on the closing in on the hut.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Trying to figure out what's going on, there were like forest sounds.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Whatever you want to call it.
Speaker D:It sounded a lot like the clicking noises of the predator.
Speaker D:Like I heard predator noises and I'm.
Speaker B:Like, okay, so it wouldn't surprise me if they hijacked.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:So machines like put the sound in there because, you know, he did Predator as well.
Speaker D:John McTiernan did.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:I don't know.
Speaker D:Well, y'all didn't hear that or catch it.
Speaker D:Sound like Predator to me.
Speaker C:I don't recall.
Speaker B:I didn't catch it.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:And this, this is done intentionally.
Speaker B:I know directors have done it.
Speaker B:The, the famous scream when someone.
Speaker D:Willem scream.
Speaker B:Willem scream.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Ah, you know.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Is the same sound effect in hundreds of movies.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I was, I was very intrigued to find that out.
Speaker B:Tarantino used it, I think as an homage in one of his movies or whatever.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:I think if you have like people dying and you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Having screams.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:I gotta throw it in there now.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:It was in Indiana Jones, I think was one of the examples.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:I think Han Solo's.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yell into the garbage shoot in the first Star wars is that same yellow screen.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker C:Sarlacc pit.
Speaker C:I think when one of them goes in there.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:It's probably in every single Star wars movie at least once.
Speaker C:I can't find what these things are called.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was a.
Speaker D:It was Bigfoot.
Speaker D:I like it.
Speaker B:It was a one time reference.
Speaker B:Because then they call him something else.
Speaker B:Like throughout the rest of the movie they have another name.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Which made it only.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Confusing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And then this cuz William Wisher called him one Thing.
Speaker D:And then the other guy, Warren Lewis.
Speaker D:Something else, and they just.
Speaker C:Here we go.
Speaker C:The window.
Speaker B:Window.
Speaker D:See, I knew we wasn't.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:Yeah, well, because.
Speaker B:Well, I don't know where I got indoor, though, because I thought I saw indoor.
Speaker C:Yeah, in Beowulf.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:The other name is Grendel.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So maybe so.
Speaker D:Yeah, because it's Grindel and Mother.
Speaker D:And then the.
Speaker D:The fire Serpent.
Speaker D:All from.
Speaker B:Okay, now.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Talking about the fire Serpent, a survivor from a previous attack.
Speaker B:I said, is this a half man?
Speaker B:And I guess he was, because he was a survivor and he told a story, but we never see him again.
Speaker B:I don't guess the half man.
Speaker B:A thing like a man and a bear.
Speaker B:Okay, I got that.
Speaker B:And then he says something about a.
Speaker B:And I could have sworn.
Speaker B:I guess I'm over 2 on what these names are called or something.
Speaker B:I must be mishearing.
Speaker B:I thought he said glow worm.
Speaker B:Did he ever say.
Speaker C:Yeah, I thought I heard glow worm glow.
Speaker B:He called it a glow worm.
Speaker D:That's a child's toy from the 80s.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:But that's what he called a glow worm.
Speaker C:Fire worm.
Speaker B:Thereafter, it was the fire serpent or dragon.
Speaker B:They never mentioned.
Speaker D:Because I kept saying, this has got to be.
Speaker D:That's.
Speaker D:That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it.
Speaker D:This has got to be the different drafts of these different guys calling different stuff, and they just didn't ever.
Speaker D:The continuity guy was asleep.
Speaker D:They didn't put it all together or.
Speaker A:They're like us.
Speaker A:We call Quigley.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:20 different names.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:But in the terms of the story.
Speaker D:You don't want to confuse your audience.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:Is there a glower.
Speaker B:Mana dragon.
Speaker D:I don't.
Speaker B:Anyway.
Speaker B:Glow worm.
Speaker B:And that's not particularly menacing.
Speaker D:Sure isn't.
Speaker B:Anyway, stand watch.
Speaker B:Prepare.
Speaker B:Fight.
Speaker B:I'm not a warrior.
Speaker B:You very soon will be.
Speaker D:I like that line a lot.
Speaker B:I did, too.
Speaker B:I did.
Speaker B:Because these are lines that you look for in a movie to mark his growth.
Speaker D:No.
Speaker B:You know, the milestones, the mile markers of his.
Speaker D:And afterwards, they're like, well, he didn't run away.
Speaker D:The Arab didn't run away.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:So at some point, I think there was a solid story here, probably in the book.
Speaker B:You know, I'd be.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I kind of want to read the book now.
Speaker D:I'm gonna read it and see.
Speaker B:Yeah, the whole boiled cow urine thing.
Speaker B:And I thought that exchange was good.
Speaker D:I like that.
Speaker B:Okay, well, tomorrow you wake up with pus running down your face and a fever.
Speaker D:All right, let's do it.
Speaker D:But, yeah, that was The.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so I like that there are.
Speaker B:There are moments where like.
Speaker D:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:And then there were moments like, wait a minute, what happened?
Speaker B:You know, defenses to build.
Speaker B:Not a good fence, builder commissions, a new sort.
Speaker B:So I like that whole sequence, you know?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:I even like how he.
Speaker D:Like, he couldn't do it.
Speaker D:Couldn't explain how to get the other guy to do it.
Speaker D:So he.
Speaker D:Does he end up doing it himself on the.
Speaker D:On the wheel.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:I like that.
Speaker D:Only I didn't like is he can wield that thing really well.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:There was no foundation warrior.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:You know, like, there should have been some throwaway line.
Speaker D:All palace people have to learn how to wield, you know, some.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:If you're gonna stick with him not being a warrior.
Speaker B:The interest of the nurse.
Speaker B:Talk of the glowworm slash dragon.
Speaker B:So again, here.
Speaker B:Here.
Speaker B:I was on board with him and her.
Speaker B:I was like, okay, that's cool.
Speaker B:Nothing.
Speaker B:Where'd she go?
Speaker B:No, we don't know.
Speaker B:A duel now.
Speaker B:I thought this duel was done well.
Speaker D:Oh, yeah.
Speaker D:No, that was.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:The hiding of the.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker D:We forgot about that.
Speaker D:So, yeah, I'm.
Speaker D:I'm in this movie again.
Speaker D:Watching it.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because, you know, he is getting beat and we're on board with Banderas thinking, dude's gonna die.
Speaker D:He's getting his ass.
Speaker D:Whoop.
Speaker D:He's.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:The other guy still got three shields.
Speaker D:He's down to his last one.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's not going the whole time he's playing him, you know, now he has to fear what he cannot see.
Speaker B:I thought that was really good.
Speaker B:Good.
Speaker D:Yep.
Speaker C:So what.
Speaker C:Why did they fight?
Speaker C:I totally.
Speaker C:So that.
Speaker B:Oh, because battle.
Speaker B:Because he was poisoning the ear of the king.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The wicked son.
Speaker B:Which again, we don't really get closure on him.
Speaker C:Totally.
Speaker B:He walks off and we never see him again.
Speaker B:He's this.
Speaker D:Oh, yeah.
Speaker D:He must have got his.
Speaker D:Packed up and went home.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:He's this.
Speaker B:This.
Speaker B:This Shakespearean betrayer.
Speaker B:Whisperer.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Right in the ear of the king, trying to, you know, enact his will.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And that was his big.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:I guess his.
Speaker B:Yeah, his bodyguard.
Speaker B:I don't know what one of these.
Speaker D:Writers, either William or Warren, they're.
Speaker D:Oh, what happened to my prince guy?
Speaker D:Like, yes, there's this good payoff here.
Speaker D:Sorry, we had to cut it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Off he goes.
Speaker C:It was like, for what end?
Speaker C:Why is the prince being shitty at a time.
Speaker B:Well, he wanted to be king.
Speaker B:It was all very Shakespearean, but.
Speaker B:But, yeah.
Speaker B:Not developed.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:And no payoff.
Speaker B:No payoff.
Speaker D:I Mean, you had the big fight, but then that was the end of it.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Fight was cool, but then it's like, why?
Speaker C:Yeah, why?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Because if you're gonna end it there, you got to make him the guy fighting.
Speaker C:Yeah, sure.
Speaker D:Or at least, yeah, show him.
Speaker D:Pack up a.
Speaker D:And right off, you know what was.
Speaker B:I can't remember the name movie.
Speaker B:Where he was the guy from.
Speaker B:I can't remember anything right now.
Speaker B:I will.
Speaker B:I'll circle back if I remember it.
Speaker B:Taken.
Speaker B:The guy who was the guy that started in taking Liam Neeson.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:He was in a movie where it might have been.
Speaker B:Might have been William Wallace, but it was Irish or something.
Speaker D:Rob Roy.
Speaker B:Rob Roy, yes.
Speaker B:Where he's losing that fight because he's got a big sword and the other guy's got a rapier, and at the end, he basically cleaves him in half and wins.
Speaker B:You know, that was done very well.
Speaker B:So that this.
Speaker B:I like the scene.
Speaker B:It was just grounded in a movie that.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:Because even when he's like.
Speaker D:The reveal and just the move, the way he does it to behead him or whatever was all, like, really smoothly done.
Speaker D:It was.
Speaker B:It was cool.
Speaker B:Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker C:But all that was just seemed unnecessary.
Speaker B:Well, it became unnecessary.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:They wanted to send a message.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:About what?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Apparently that got lost in the years.
Speaker C:You'Re building fences and the monsters coming down onto the hills.
Speaker D:Now we got time to fight.
Speaker B:Right, Right.
Speaker D:Because even the lead up the.
Speaker D:The.
Speaker D:The mud, you know, slinging the mud on him or whatever.
Speaker D:Watch where you're throwing, like, all that.
Speaker D:How he provoked him.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:All that was good.
Speaker D:And it made you.
Speaker D:You're talking about getting to know these guys.
Speaker D:It made you, like, that Viking, like.
Speaker D:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So apparently there are pages on the floor of.
Speaker B:That got cut.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:It's a little thing, but it's, I guess, showing his growth or his acceptance.
Speaker D:When Antonio is trying to get bullwhip to.
Speaker D:To stop the fight.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:He said he could die, and the.
Speaker D:His response is, it is possible.
Speaker B:Yeah, sure.
Speaker D:Later on, he's talking.
Speaker D:Antonio is talking to the girl, and she's like, we're gonna die here.
Speaker D:And he says, it is possible.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:That's good.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's very good.
Speaker B:A duel.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:More watching.
Speaker B:Vigilance, the Fireworm, the rescue of the child on his dog.
Speaker B:I thought that was cool.
Speaker B:Where he is able to.
Speaker B:Because a big horse would not have been able to do that.
Speaker B:And so they were basically surrendering that child to death.
Speaker B:Nothing we can do.
Speaker B:He's not having it.
Speaker B:You know, he's right.
Speaker B:You know, I thought that was again, probably a.
Speaker B:A good scene in the midst of some.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Because when he goes down there to save him, that's when he realizes it's not some sort of dragon.
Speaker D:It's guys with.
Speaker B:Oh, yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:Torches or whatever.
Speaker D:That's cool.
Speaker B:And then a great battle is what I have is maybe the end of the fun and games for me.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:So that battle then, to me, is the end of the fun and games.
Speaker B:Now, I was little and it's always like this.
Speaker B:Is it a false victory?
Speaker B:Is it a false.
Speaker B:To beat defeat?
Speaker B:I have midpoint false victory only because they didn't die.
Speaker B:They didn't die.
Speaker B:But it's also roughly halfway through the movie.
Speaker B:Any more.
Speaker B:Any less than.
Speaker B:I know the beats are in trouble.
Speaker B:So I'm thinking, okay, well, is it a false victory?
Speaker B:The repelling of the marauders.
Speaker B:They have a drink and a smile.
Speaker B:He sleeps with the nurse.
Speaker B:At this time, they learn that they have to destroy the will of the fighters.
Speaker B:Not just destroy them on the field of battle.
Speaker B:You can beat them on the field of battle, but if you haven't broken their will, you haven't defeated them.
Speaker B:The mother of the Eaters and the leader, you have to kill both of those to break their will.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We ride till we find them and then we kill them all.
Speaker B:And then I have Bear in a cave, very much a literal approach to the innermost cave as the midpoint.
Speaker B:This idea that they're getting this information from this crazy witch and they've basically repelled them in a.
Speaker B:In a victory, but it's not the ultimate victory.
Speaker B:Do you all have your midpoint somewhere else or is that.
Speaker D:Yeah, so I had it at the.
Speaker D:I guess when they defeat, like the.
Speaker D:At the fire serpent, like the big, big battle, like you had it.
Speaker D:But it seemed like it was kind of too early.
Speaker D:And then I'm thinking, all right, well, bad guys close in is really them closing in on the bad guys.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:I was having trouble with the bad.
Speaker B:Because they were the ones closing in right now.
Speaker B:The only thing that I sort of was able to have, as the bad guys close in, they get into the cave and they see the heads, the mounted heads of some of their own countrymen.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Which to me was a weak.
Speaker B:Bad guys close in.
Speaker B:But it's the only thing I could really.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:No, it very much follows writer's journey more than.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Than Catboy.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because the bad guys Close in is supposed to be.
Speaker B:You've said that you essentially had a victory then.
Speaker B:Point.
Speaker B:But now the bad guys are sort of revamped.
Speaker D:Correct.
Speaker B:And are coming at you.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Harder and stronger.
Speaker B:Harder.
Speaker B:And it works.
Speaker D:To me.
Speaker D:It works really well.
Speaker D:And when the midpoint is a false victory, but when it's a false defeat.
Speaker D:So you're.
Speaker D:You're almost viewed by the bad guys and they beat you up some more like that.
Speaker D:That's always been kind of difficult.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:I always prefer a false victory, especially.
Speaker D:Like my own stories.
Speaker D:Like, I have a hard time writing it the other way just because it makes more sense.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Well, bad guys close in.
Speaker D:This is when they're rallying back.
Speaker D:You.
Speaker B:You defeated.
Speaker D:Temporarily defeated them.
Speaker D:And now they're coming back stronger.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And the.
Speaker B:All is lost is supposed to be the.
Speaker B:I always forget which one it is.
Speaker B:All the loss.
Speaker B:Supposed to be the opposite of them.
Speaker D:Correct.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:So it's supposed to be.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:And that again, makes more sense to me too.
Speaker D:If it's all is lost.
Speaker D:That it.
Speaker D:It's inherently negative.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:So.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:You know, making.
Speaker D:I like making it a false defeat.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Right, Right.
Speaker D:But you can do it both ways.
Speaker D:It's just, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You have to flip them and.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Seeing.
Speaker B:So that guy's seeing the heads.
Speaker B:Maybe all is lost.
Speaker B:I have.
Speaker B:The other Bear men are notified.
Speaker B:The leader of the Northmen killed the queen.
Speaker B:So this is gonna be a false defeat.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The Bearmen find out that they're there.
Speaker B:The Northmen or Bullwhip or whatever goes in there and he defeats the.
Speaker B:The mother but gets a fatal strike.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:That's what I had always lost is that he's.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Vaguely wounded.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker B:We get the idea that he's been essentially poisoned.
Speaker B:She dips her nail in something.
Speaker D:Why don't you just cut her hand off first?
Speaker B:That's what I'm saying.
Speaker B:Her nail or something.
Speaker B:I'm sticking her right in the guts with a sword six feet away.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker D:You got this.
Speaker D:How long is that sore.
Speaker D:Fucking.
Speaker D:Exactly six feet.
Speaker D:Fucking.
Speaker D:Why get so close?
Speaker B:Yeah, right.
Speaker B:Because it had to happen.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:It was like when you got a gun and, you know, you get up all close, what that thing will go how far?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:Earlier we were talking about the woman being originally.
Speaker D:I don't remember, James, if you said it.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker D:She was more grotesque and more creature like.
Speaker D:And then you said you had some notes about the fight as well, like that we were going to get into.
Speaker D:I didn't remember.
Speaker B:I just Thought it was very anticlimactic.
Speaker B:Yeah, build up, build up, build up.
Speaker B:It's her, okay?
Speaker D:She's some witch and.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:She dips her nail in poison and, you know.
Speaker A:And why did they change it again?
Speaker C:Because it was hard to watch, apparently.
Speaker C:Because she was so ugly, I guess.
Speaker B:Yeah, but that's what you want.
Speaker A:Well, I was expecting it.
Speaker A:After seeing that, you're gonna have a pretty bad guy.
Speaker D:What?
Speaker C:Well, see, that reminds me to go back to Bone Tomahawk.
Speaker C:So when they go into the cave and they see the mother.
Speaker C:Yeah, that was grotesque.
Speaker C:That was shocking.
Speaker B:You think of Alien, for God's sakes.
Speaker B:Half the fear of Alien is how disgustingly menacing it looks with the drool and the sounds and the lizard like, snake like, worm, like, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker B:The acid blood.
Speaker D:And the queen's on you better.
Speaker D:She's worse.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:No, this.
Speaker C:Then this.
Speaker C:This queen mother lady, she looked, you know, she looked kind of like a Medusa hair.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:But she's a little like a caveman.
Speaker A:I mean, you know, like.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was.
Speaker A:She needed a comb.
Speaker C:Well, I think in the books.
Speaker D:I think you're right.
Speaker D:Sherry.
Speaker D:Nailed it.
Speaker D:Give this a comb and a bath and she's not so scary all of a sudden.
Speaker C:I think they.
Speaker C:In the book, they're supposed to be Neanderthals.
Speaker B:Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker C:You know, they're.
Speaker C:They don't look like humans, but the.
Speaker B:Big Bad is supposed to be the big beat.
Speaker B:Like, even in video games, you go to fight the.
Speaker B:The boss.
Speaker B:It's the.
Speaker B:It's the biggest thing you fought up to that time, you know?
Speaker A:So why did they have the little.
Speaker A:The little statue or whatever?
Speaker D:Yeah, I didn't get that either.
Speaker C:That was to symbolize the mother.
Speaker D:Look like her.
Speaker A:That's why I said.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, it didn't look like her.
Speaker C:That's why I think the original version did look like that.
Speaker C:Cuz then Bone Tomahawk.
Speaker C:What did they do to that mother?
Speaker C:Like she was amputated.
Speaker C:Only used her as a vessel to create more things.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker D:That's mad mechanical.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I think maybe that's what this meant to be.
Speaker C:And it was too grotesque.
Speaker C:Hard to watch.
Speaker C:So they're like, let's just make it a regular.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker D:Oh, man.
Speaker C:Yeah, they missed opportunity.
Speaker C:Not that I wanted to watch a grotesque, nasty thing like that.
Speaker D:Got to be nasty.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:They'd already shown things hanging bodies hanging without head point.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Hold on.
Speaker D:This is too far.
Speaker D:What?
Speaker D:Yeah, And.
Speaker D:And it's like they'd Made the predator nice looking.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker B:And again, back to the big boss.
Speaker B:The hero has to really be out maxed, you know?
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker B:When.
Speaker B:When he walked in, that was her.
Speaker B:I'm like, huh?
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Instead of like, oh, yeah, you know.
Speaker A:Like he was fighting some mom.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Well, but.
Speaker B:And then to get kicked.
Speaker B:Poison.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, I got a scratch.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:What you just fought was infinitely worse.
Speaker D:It's only a flesh wound.
Speaker B:I thought that was.
Speaker D:I did think it was like the other.
Speaker D:When he takes out the other guy afterwards, the leader.
Speaker D:That was way anticlimactic to me.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:Like she.
Speaker D:The fight with her was lose better than that.
Speaker D:Well, I mean, I agree that it was still anticlimactic and she wasn't gross looking because.
Speaker D:Yeah, a good spa day solves that problem.
Speaker B:He stumbles out at death's door, but then all of a sudden, he's got.
Speaker C:Just enough strength, just enough to.
Speaker C:To wield that big ass sword, which.
Speaker B:He was just dragging and stumbling because.
Speaker C:In the, in the Beowulf story originally, like, he's injured and sure, that like all that does happen in the Beowulf story.
Speaker C:But that's an example of how it.
Speaker C:It's supposed to go.
Speaker C:Like, it's good.
Speaker C:That's a good version.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:13 bad version.
Speaker D:He says he does die in the book, but he's.
Speaker D:Because he just recently.
Speaker D:Just read it for school.
Speaker D:But he.
Speaker D:He dies an old man.
Speaker C:Yeah, he dies because the battle with the.
Speaker C:The last battle is like 50 years later.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:With mom or whatever.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:But have.
Speaker D:Heaven forbid you have, you know, the 13th warrior, the one that's all important, have to step up and take out.
Speaker D:So like, he became too much.
Speaker D:That was one of my biggest problems.
Speaker D:He's too much of a.
Speaker D:And I know he's telling the story and it's about these guys, but he's too much of a spectator in his own story.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker B:It just occurred to me we'll get to this.
Speaker B:We get to Road to Perdition.
Speaker B:But both these movies are about a character telling.
Speaker B:Having a prologue and telling us.
Speaker D:Oh.
Speaker B:Mike, Michael.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:On the beach, saying, you know.
Speaker D:Yeah, I hadn't thought about that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it's kind of a match.
Speaker D:Set your button, man.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Where's my button?
Speaker B:Let me get the right one this time.
Speaker B:There we go.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Dark night of the soul.
Speaker B:So all is lost.
Speaker B:She gets scratched.
Speaker B:He gets scratched by poison.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Dark nether soul fleeing another one.
Speaker B:Another one can go no further.
Speaker B:Makes his stand, allowing the Other.
Speaker B:Some extra time.
Speaker B:Today was a good day.
Speaker B:I thought that was a good scene.
Speaker B:It's always a good scene when.
Speaker B:When a guy who knows he's gonna die stands against the horde so the others can get away.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Gorman, you're always a.
Speaker D:You were always an asshole.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:But again, I thought this was weak because I'm trying to nail a dark knight.
Speaker B:The trail ends.
Speaker B:The final stand.
Speaker B:Will fight by two so that others can.
Speaker B:So two can rest while to fight.
Speaker B:I thought that was, you know.
Speaker B:Because they're at that point thinking they're gonna die.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker D:Before they go in the water.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:The scene that Sherry's talking about, and.
Speaker B:He says something, at least it's not raining.
Speaker B:Or some guy makes reference to rain, which gives Banderas the.
Speaker B:I'm calling this the Dark knight.
Speaker D:They called it thunder.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:The storm.
Speaker D:Then he.
Speaker D:Then, yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:Because earlier with the comment about the surf and all that, I was like.
Speaker D:Like when it first happens when he's talking to the guy, like, what?
Speaker D:Okay, I completely forgot that it came back.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because at this point in the story, there has to be a dig deep down.
Speaker B:All is.
Speaker B:You know, this is the darkest point.
Speaker B:But then we dig deep down and find strength to break into third act.
Speaker D:So, again, they could have done more stuff.
Speaker D:So this dude lived in the desert before?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Does he know how to swim?
Speaker D:Maybe he doesn't.
Speaker D:And now he has to make this fucking long swim.
Speaker B:Right, Right.
Speaker D:That would have been better.
Speaker B:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:One of the writers listening is going, I knew it.
Speaker D:I had that in there.
Speaker D:And it was way better.
Speaker C:25 years later, vindication.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:Make it rain.
Speaker B:Fight or swim with the danger of drowning.
Speaker B:Like I said, I keep calling him Bovine, but it's Bullwhip or Bullwher.
Speaker B:Bull Wife.
Speaker D:Bull Wife.
Speaker D:I'm fucked it up.
Speaker D:I keep calling him Bullwhip.
Speaker B:That's fine.
Speaker B:Bovine dies.
Speaker B:Break into three.
Speaker D:What is this guy's name?
Speaker D:He's got as many names as the.
Speaker D:The Grindle guy.
Speaker C:I love how Phil was just like.
Speaker C:His name is this.
Speaker C:This is his bull wife.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, that's what I've written down.
Speaker D:No, that's good.
Speaker D:You.
Speaker D:Yeah, James is right.
Speaker D:You made a point to get his name right and then immediately just discarded.
Speaker C:But it's what's written down.
Speaker D:Down.
Speaker B:Listen, man, I wrote this.
Speaker B:Break into three.
Speaker B:We killed the mother but not the leader.
Speaker D:Still alive.
Speaker B:They come back tonight, the fog is coming, and they prepare for the final battle.
Speaker B:We'll soon find out if she was right.
Speaker B:What do I have that written down for?
Speaker D:Oh, the world gonna die, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, yes.
Speaker D:That was done better in Predator too.
Speaker D:You got like the biggest guy there going, we're all gonna die.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker D:You believed it when he said it.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:Prepare yourselves.
Speaker B:Ahmed lives.
Speaker B:Praise to live the next few minutes.
Speaker B:Well, I thought that was good.
Speaker D:I did like that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Suicide before capture.
Speaker B:Even the children handing out the knives, don't let them be taken.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:I thought that was sufficiently dark.
Speaker C:Well, that was cool how they.
Speaker C:The king wanted to stand on the like with the men.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:She gave him that look of no.
Speaker B:And then they give him the out.
Speaker B:No, we need somebody to.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:The women and children.
Speaker C:And then here's a knife to kill everybody.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:They get past.
Speaker B:Well, that's very.
Speaker B:Masada.
Speaker B:I don't know if you're familiar with the story.
Speaker B:Massage Masada, But.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, you know.
Speaker B:Anyway, Bull life with his last oust of strength.
Speaker B:We think he's dying or is dead, but he comes back, but, you know.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I'm not sure that worked.
Speaker D:He drank that spit water, man.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:That's keeping him alive.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Witch woman ain't got nothing.
Speaker D:What was it?
Speaker D:The.
Speaker D:The goat urine or whatever it was.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Cow urine.
Speaker D:Cow urine, yeah.
Speaker C:Boiled down and distilled a dual.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Threw that on the.
Speaker D:On the little cut bottom a few minutes, you know.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:The final battle.
Speaker B:Bullwhip gets his man.
Speaker B:The will of the bear people is broken and they flee.
Speaker B:And then a king's funeral for bull whiff or whatever.
Speaker C:I like how he died of just sitting there.
Speaker B:No, that was cool.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, sitting on his throne, you know, the return of the king, I thought was.
Speaker B:It was epic as far as, you know, him fighting through all that and then becoming, you know, but so there were.
Speaker B:There were moments of brilliance surrounded by lots of not so brilliant.
Speaker B:And then, you know, we talked about this as the final image.
Speaker B:I don't think it worked.
Speaker B:Ahmed returns to his homeland, no longer in exile.
Speaker B:A question mark records the story of bullwife.
Speaker B:And the northman becomes a man and a useful servant of God, he says, which, if that was his growth, that he became a man and a useful servant of God.
Speaker B:We have to show him at the beginning being not that.
Speaker D:Yep.
Speaker B:And I don't think that we do.
Speaker B:And so I think that led to a lot of problems throughout.
Speaker D:Yeah, let's watch that little bit.
Speaker D:And he goes.
Speaker D:So is this like.
Speaker D:He's like, are they trying to like comment on like the.
Speaker D:The religious aspects of Beowulf.
Speaker D:And I'm like, I really don't know, kid.
Speaker D:That like, that kind of story.
Speaker D:Yeah, this thing's a mess.
Speaker D:Like.
Speaker D:Yeah, because you're right.
Speaker D:You guys set that up.
Speaker D:Show him not being a man of faith or whatever.
Speaker D:Right?
Speaker D:Or.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, whatever.
Speaker B:It's the six things that need fixing.
Speaker B:Is that cat boy or is that from.
Speaker D:That's cat boy.
Speaker B:Cat boy, yeah.
Speaker B:6.
Speaker B:Show your character with flaws that are fixed at the end.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:And we don't.
Speaker C:There was a few flaws in there, but they didn't make a big deal out of it.
Speaker C:Like him drinking alcohol and having sex with the woman.
Speaker C:Those aren't part of the.
Speaker C:Part of his faith.
Speaker D:Yeah, no, you're right.
Speaker B:He said alcohol comes from fermented grapes.
Speaker C:Grapes or wheat.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Search laughing says it's honey.
Speaker D:So you're right.
Speaker D:So he didn't even.
Speaker D:He didn't even give there.
Speaker D:Because it's different, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So I thought this movie had a lot of potential, but.
Speaker C:And some cool moments.
Speaker B:And some cool moments.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Because if his whole thing is, I'm a man of faith and these are savages.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Then he's gonna learn that they're the value of their religion.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:And realize that you can be.
Speaker D:Because there is both, I guess.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, there's this.
Speaker B:This whole exchange at the end.
Speaker B:You believe in one God, but here we need a few more.
Speaker B:And this, you know, so there is this.
Speaker B:This idea of mutual respect now from cultures, which is a very cool theme, but.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:It's just a really pale bad.
Speaker D:Yeah, it's a bad version of anemic.
Speaker D:Don't you see?
Speaker D:I'm not afraid.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:I'm your friend.
Speaker B:I'm in tears every time.
Speaker D:I'm way better.
Speaker B:God.
Speaker D:Well, you're laughing at this, right.
Speaker B:And I love dance wolves.
Speaker D:And I'm going, where's he going?
Speaker D:We're in dental wolves.
Speaker D:We're not confused about where anybody.
Speaker B:He's running to to save them.
Speaker B:They say, I love dance wolves.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:I will watch it, but I know what's going to happen.
Speaker B:It's going to be an acid bath of emotion.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Every time I watch it.
Speaker B:So I have to be.
Speaker B:I'm selective about.
Speaker D:How often do you watch?
Speaker C:Once a decade.
Speaker B:Once every couple of years, probably.
Speaker B:I don't remember the last time I did watch it.
Speaker B:So it's been a couple pulls up.
Speaker C:On the couch, has himself a nice cry.
Speaker B:Yeah, you know, it's all right, you know, But It's.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:Everything is very set up, and by the end, you are so on board with these characters.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Anyway.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Now Lace calls it exercising your face muscles because it's from Peacemaker.
Speaker D:Like, at one point, the.
Speaker D:The John Cena silly show on Max.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:One point he's crying over something and, like, one of the other superheroes catches him.
Speaker D:Dude, are you crying?
Speaker D:No, no, I wasn't crying.
Speaker D:I was exercising my face muscles.
Speaker D:So anytime watching a movie that, you know, makes me emotional, lethal.
Speaker D:Poke fun and go exercising your face muscles.
Speaker B:Dead sure.
Speaker D:Shut up.
Speaker C:I'm feeling what's happening.
Speaker D:That's what's happening to me.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Any other comments before we get into the pass?
Speaker B:Consider.
Speaker B:No, no, sorry.
Speaker B:No, ask.
Speaker B:Consider.
Speaker B:All right, James, this was your movie.
Speaker B:We'll start with you, I guess, if you want.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I'm gonna have to say go ahead and pass on this one.
Speaker C:There's other options of good stories.
Speaker C:Just.
Speaker C:Yeah, don't.
Speaker C:I'm sorry.
Speaker C:I didn't mean to pick this movie.
Speaker C:I guess.
Speaker B:Go for it.
Speaker D:Damn.
Speaker C:Slam my own pick.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:James, I don't feel that it was a complete waste of time.
Speaker B:I enjoyed it on some level.
Speaker B:I also was very graceful with this movie in terms of.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:What I sort of put up with.
Speaker C:I'll tell you, I was eating my breakfast sandwich this morning on the way over, and I said this 10 minutes of eating this breakfast sandwich was more enjoyable than Warrior.
Speaker B:I don't think I'm that harsh on it, but I.
Speaker B:I mean, I see your point.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I told that to my wife, and she's like, all right.
Speaker D:Did she watch it with you?
Speaker C:No, she wouldn't watch it.
Speaker D:20 minutes and she was out.
Speaker C:She was.
Speaker C:They went out.
Speaker C:They had a thing yesterday.
Speaker C:They went to the Nutcracker at the house to myself, watching.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:That's funny.
Speaker D:No, no.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Stace had a.
Speaker D:A girls night out Friday night, so that's when I watched.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah, I was gonna pass.
Speaker D:I was gonna go.
Speaker D:Consider.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:But I don't know how much of that is.
Speaker D:I like, you know, sword and sandal stuff, medieval movies.
Speaker D:Really?
Speaker D:Like Antonio Banderas.
Speaker D:He still delivers, right?
Speaker D:Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker D:Like.
Speaker D:Yeah, consider if you like Antonio Banderas.
Speaker D:You like medieval stuff.
Speaker D:Yeah, don't expect.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:You know, the best medieval movie, as you said, James, There's a lot.
Speaker D:I guess some other stuff that's.
Speaker D:That's better, but.
Speaker D:Yeah, I don't think.
Speaker D:It's not a pass.
Speaker D:Yeah, give it a.
Speaker D:Give it a Consider if you like certain elements, you know, you're big and turning.
Speaker D:Antonio Banderas fan, or maybe.
Speaker D:Maybe you're a big fan of Beowulf.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:So you want to see another version of that?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:You're a Crichton fan?
Speaker D:I don't know.
Speaker B:Well, I love zombie movies and I am.
Speaker D:You watch anything zombie?
Speaker B:Almost anything.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I also am a.
Speaker B:Consider.
Speaker B:I think it has elements that are done well and enjoyable, and if you are not a student of film or story or whatever, you may gloss over these things and not affect you.
Speaker B:But if you have any sense of what could have been done or see the potential in.
Speaker B:In what could have been done, it is disappointing.
Speaker D:No, I agree.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:The more you learn about.
Speaker D:And I think.
Speaker D:This is what.
Speaker D:I think we've talked about this a little before, but, like, the more you learn about something and dive more into it, whether it's beer, coffee, music, movies, you become almost this elitist.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:And so then your.
Speaker D:Your tolerance for a good product becomes, you know, becomes higher.
Speaker D:So.
Speaker B:And then when a good product does come along, you're that much more.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Oh, this is.
Speaker B:I wish I could write that versus.
Speaker D:Oh, I could that out.
Speaker D:You know what I mean?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Hey, that guy made millions.
Speaker B:And here I am.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker D:Yeah, this is.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Anyway, so, yeah, consider for me.
Speaker B:All right, Sherry.
Speaker A:Okay, so I'm the.
Speaker A:I'm the non.
Speaker B:You're the normal person.
Speaker A:I'm the normal person, I guess.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Or the non.
Speaker A:Expert.
Speaker B:Well, we could.
Speaker B:We love to think we're experts, but, you know.
Speaker A:Well, anyway, you.
Speaker D:Man, we're writers.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker A:And I'll.
Speaker A:I'm not going to get into it right now, but honestly, I wanted to give up on movies and.
Speaker A:And stuff.
Speaker A:I'll get into that another day.
Speaker D:But give up on movies entirely.
Speaker A:Yes, after.
Speaker A:After.
Speaker A:I don't want to get into it too much.
Speaker A:It's all political.
Speaker A:It's all these, well, people that can't.
Speaker D:Watch a movie pushing an agenda.
Speaker A:Yes, sure.
Speaker D:But.
Speaker B:But also realizing that a lot of these actors.
Speaker B:I'll say this is what I think she's saying.
Speaker B:A lot of these actors are elitists who hate you.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Who think they're better than you, who.
Speaker B:They have no comprehension of what real life is.
Speaker B:What real life is so.
Speaker D:So 100% removed because their life is not our life right now.
Speaker D:They have so much fingertips.
Speaker B:I completely shut that off because I like a good story.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:So that's it, you know.
Speaker D:All right.
Speaker A:Coming back to this movie.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I don't want to meet these douchebags.
Speaker B:Like, I think you're a douchebag, but I like, I liked you in, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yes, yes.
Speaker A:Then.
Speaker A:Anyway, so coming back around, like, I.
Speaker B:Think De Niro is on himself.
Speaker B:Sorry, you got me started, but De Niro has absolutely shit on his.
Speaker D:Yes, I think he's a very good actor.
Speaker D:But.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Anything personal and.
Speaker D:No, I just want to shake statements.
Speaker A:My thing was Alec Baldwin.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I stood up.
Speaker B:Well, I was in his camp.
Speaker B:I was, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:When he was accused of.
Speaker A:Of killing that lady, I was like, how can he.
Speaker A:He's not at fault.
Speaker A:He's not at fault.
Speaker B:He might not have been, but I don't have the warm feelings that I.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Not since he goes to another country.
Speaker B:France, and says, well, America's just a bunch of idiots.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Who don't.
Speaker B:Who don't know what.
Speaker B:Anyway.
Speaker B:Anyway.
Speaker A:So I didn't want to get into that.
Speaker B:Well, I was going to get into.
Speaker A:So it was very difficult for me to even want to do the podcast again.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:I'm serious.
Speaker A:She gets on, however, so.
Speaker A:And that was another thing.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:I've got to sit and watch these movies.
Speaker A:However, once I started watching the movie.
Speaker A:And I'm just going to go ahead and say it's a consider for me, because first of all, Antonio Banderas.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm not going to lie.
Speaker A:I forgot.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:You know, he's.
Speaker B:He's straight up in the man crush category in his younger days.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:But anyway, so.
Speaker A:And then, like I said, once I got past the language thing, but it just.
Speaker A:It really caught my attention whenever he's sitting there and he's learning, and I'm like, okay, this is getting interesting.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then when they get there, I'm a big paranormal fan.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so when they show this stuff that's coming, I was like, oh, wait a minute.
Speaker A:Is this Bigfoot for real?
Speaker A:Or what is this bears?
Speaker A:Or, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm like, oh, who was eating?
Speaker A:You know.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:So if it had been supernatural, you would you have liked it more if that had end up being.
Speaker A:No, no, no.
Speaker A:Because I liked how.
Speaker A:Because I knew it wasn't.
Speaker A:I knew it.
Speaker B:I couldn't remember.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, I knew it wasn't, but it made it sound.
Speaker A:Because did you hear me in there going, no.
Speaker A:Is this Bigfoot for real?
Speaker A:I was doing that.
Speaker A:But then when he.
Speaker A:He saw that it was really a man, I was like, I knew it.
Speaker A:I mean, you had to be.
Speaker A:Except for when he cut off that claw.
Speaker A:I Thought, oh, my God, you're right.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I thought they hit it fairly well.
Speaker A:But no, I actually found myself enjoying it because, you know, I kept.
Speaker A:Well, I'll see how that goes if I have to turn it off.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, but then I said, okay, I got to see where this is going.
Speaker A:And then, you know, the little.
Speaker A:If you put comedy anything like this.
Speaker B:Then I'm sure it diffuses attention.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:I think there were enough good points to sort of give you enough momentum to get through the weak points.
Speaker B:So just about the time you start to fade again, they have a strong point, but.
Speaker D:Okay, they start using the writers pages.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:What did drive me crazy was they came and fought and I was like, dude, they came through that front gate.
Speaker A:They did not secure that enough.
Speaker A:You know, it was just easy to come through.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But then they went and fought them and I thought, okay, this is it, we're done.
Speaker A:Oh, no, here we come again.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, and I'm like, oh, God, when is this going to be done?
Speaker C:Well, a lot of people said that.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, it wasn't about the movie.
Speaker A:It was just about the.
Speaker A:I'm tired of them worrying about them.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:You know, I was so worried that they were all go.
Speaker A:I was like, don't let him die.
Speaker A:Don't let him die.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And see, I was just the opposite.
Speaker B:Like, who, who, who died?
Speaker B:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:Well, I don't even know.
Speaker A:I don't know their names, but I was like, please don't mistake.
Speaker B:You should have known his names.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:And they should have helped you do that, you know?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I was like, oh, God, just let this hurry up so that they all don't get killed.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Out of, out of 13 warriors, we knew two or three of them.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I got some of those names wrong.
Speaker A:Well, and I kept calling one of them look like the.
Speaker A:The guy from Terminator or the guy from the Eagles.
Speaker C:What, Joe Walsh?
Speaker A:No, not Joe Walsh.
Speaker A:The drummer.
Speaker C:Don Henley.
Speaker A:Don Henley.
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker A:There's an actor that looks like Don Henley a lot now that he's older.
Speaker A:The one who played the.
Speaker A:The cop in Terminator 2.
Speaker D:Oh, Robert Patrick.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So I kept.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:In my mind, the guy that was speaking a lot.
Speaker A:That's who I kept thinking.
Speaker A:I know it wasn't him.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I'm about to say, was he in this?
Speaker A:No, he wasn't in it.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:But then.
Speaker A:And then the long blond haired guy, he looked like the guy from Ghostbusters too.
Speaker A:So I can't.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker A:I kept Thinking.
Speaker A:Okay, well, that's the Ghostbuster.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, I mean, I don't know their name.
Speaker B:Other better movies helped you get on board with some of these characters.
Speaker D:She's not wrong.
Speaker D:No, no.
Speaker D:Bullwhip.
Speaker D:Looks like.
Speaker D:I've thought this before.
Speaker D:That was the only one.
Speaker D:He looks like Igor or whatever from.
Speaker A:Ghostbusters in the painting.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker D:That guy's uglier.
Speaker D:Sorry, man.
Speaker D:But yeah, he's European.
Speaker C:He's used to it.
Speaker A:But that's how I.
Speaker A:That's how I got through who the characters were.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And that's that.
Speaker B:Yeah, and that's.
Speaker B:That's not good because, like, you know, you think about movies like Armageddon or like the Losers where you have this ensemble cast and you get us.
Speaker B:You get a snippet of each character.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:Cat boy.
Speaker D:You got to give each one an eye patch and a limp.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:You got to give them something to identify.
Speaker B:And so when the.
Speaker B:When.
Speaker D:When they all got blonde hair and blue eyes.
Speaker D:Because they're Vikings.
Speaker D:What?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then even the one that had red hair, you just.
Speaker B:Okay, that was a red hair guy.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Red haired guy.
Speaker B:But Losers, Armageddon are just two examples where you set up these characters and you love every one of them.
Speaker B:I had a good seat.
Speaker B:Pick that out there.
Speaker B:You know, every character, right.
Speaker B:Gets a line, gets, you know, Magnificent Seven.
Speaker D:They all had identities.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Anyway, okay, so what is that?
Speaker B:Three considers in a pass?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Cast on my own movie.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, that's what's to me.
Speaker D:Like, I guess, you know, cool and bad about, like, revisiting something that you loved when you were younger or whatever is.
Speaker D:Sometimes it works out.
Speaker C:Sometimes you're like, that's really what I wanted to do.
Speaker C:And it did not hold up.
Speaker D:It did not hold up.
Speaker C:Yeah, I remember liking it quite a bit back in the day.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Anything else?
Speaker B:This was a marathon.
Speaker B:We were two hours on that.
Speaker B:Which.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:One hour, 59 minutes, 35 seconds.
Speaker A:Don't you cut my nickel back.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:We might have some first thing to go, the trailer.
Speaker A:Don't cut my nickel back.
Speaker D:That's right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So some of this might be bonus.
Speaker D:Not just trailer for this episode.
Speaker D:Trailer for the whole season.
Speaker D:Don't cut my nickel.
Speaker C:Sher's queries.
Speaker C:And don't cut my nickel.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Anything else about this movie before we wrap this one up?
Speaker C:It was in focus.
Speaker B:It was in focus.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker D:A little bit more than that going on.
Speaker B:All right, well, that was 13th Warrior, so.
Speaker B:All right, we are out.
Speaker C:Oh, this I.
Speaker C:You.
Speaker D:Boom.
Speaker C:Here's my movie.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:I'm having a hard time here.
Speaker C:Well, yeah, but, I mean, it was a missed opportunity.
Speaker C:For sure.
Speaker D:For sure.
Speaker B:The rule is, anything you want in the third act, you have to put in the first act.
Speaker B:What happened to her?
Speaker C:Lost in the edit, probably.
Speaker B:Lost in the edit.
Speaker B:Okay, well, tomorrow you wake up with pus running down your face and a fever.
Speaker C:In a previous life, he was Zorro.
Speaker B:At some point, I think there was a solid story here.
Speaker A:She needed a comb.
Speaker D:He drink that spit water?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:That's keeping him alive.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:First of all, Antonio Banderas.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
